SOU RR always ran their sleepers at the rear. SOU RR;s Southern Crescent and the Southerner both backed into ATL's terminal station when traveling north and backed out of Terminal station when traveling south out of Terminal going to Birmingham. Usually SOU used some yard switcher for the backing but not always.
SAL's Silver Comet also did back the same way at ATL terminal station for BHM. However it used a GP-7 to pull the train. It worked well for SAL as extra cars on the Comet came off in ATL and were pulled north past Howell CP by usually a GP-7 with the off cars going to SAL's maintenance yard. Opposite system for northbound .
I could add one more Amtrak back-in move. This was at Louisville, KY. As I recall (could have the directions backwards) in the 1970s before its demise, NB the Floridian made a short front movement into depot, then back out and headed to points North. Then SB, a back-in to terminal, then a head out move towards points South. I had the privilege of riding the train many times in the 70s.
Sunnyland, for rough track, you should have ridden through Grenada between Memphis and North Jackson; the only freight was the local. As to the horn, many of the towns had so many crossings that it was impossible to blow a proper signal for each crossing as the train ran at full speed; often the last blast for one crossing would be the first blast for the next crossing. I doubt that much, if any, relocation had been made of the original track as it snaked through the hills. This was the way the City ran when it was a day train.
Johnny
All the trains I rode pre-Amtrak always had the Pullman cars on rear, Dad used to say it was because there was less risk of them going off the track in a derailment. Some of the trains we rode like UP/SP City of St. Louis would have about 20 cars, with baggage, coaches, lounges, sleepers. There was a chance of getting hit in rear but that did not happen as often. Two friends and I took a Pullman bedroom on that train as none of us wanted to sit with a stranger, so Dad arranged with UP sales office to get us a sleeper. It was not that much more expensive, I had to pay for that trip, even if my parents had went ,as pass privileges stopped when I turned 18 . The only station that I really remember backing in was St. Louis Union, when we rode the sleeper, we were the last car and I remember the N&W conductor coming back to tweet us in, as the Pullman conductor stepped aside. Dad always said the host RR was in charge. When I rode Builder and Starlight on my first Amtrak LD trip, the cars were on the rear and also on SW Chief I rode a couple of years later. When I rode CONO for my first roomette trip, we were on the front. And yes, the constant horn honking did keep me awake. I asked my sleeper attendant why the rear, and he said there is rough track in parts of MS and he has had people fall out of beds, so they put them on front. I traveled again on CONO a couple of years later and horns were worse, so next time I go I am definitely taking ear plugs. Lots of crossings in MS so lots of horns. I get off at Carbondale and take the bus back home to St. L, but when I go south, I always go to Chi, so I can take advantage of the Metro Lounge, the new one is very nice with free appetizers and usually a free glass of wine. And a nice place to hang out and leave my case if I want to walk around the area. I guess I would rather wear ear plugs than be bounced out of bed on the floor. That track is rougher than most I have rode over the years. Have heard CN rerouted from IC into the Delta and more uneven.I can usually walk thru a moving train without holding onto seats, learned how to pace myself with the movement, but not on that train. I know we did not back into Denver, do not remember some of other stations we used. Parents & I always did coach of course, as that was free.
In pre-Amtrak days, many if not most passenger trains carried sleeping cars that were handed off (or picked up) at various points along the journey, sometimes running through to/from other trains and even railroads. I always thought this was at least one reason why the sleepers were carried at the rear, i.e., to facillitate switching at intermediate points by local switchers that were more numerous than today. This is not much of a consideration today since Amtrak has very few interline operations of this type.
Regarding slack action, that should be minimal, or almost none, due to titelock couplers on passenger equipment, right?
We've been on all west long lines, even with the parlour car always on sleeper in front except Zephyr July a few years back in back. Only consistant semi-exception was Texas Eagle in front switched behind coaches onto the Sunset back to Tucson.
Of course in England sleepers are ties/DK
Used to take the ACL West Coast Champion from Wash DC to Clearwater FL mid 50's to early 60's. The stop at Jacksonville was a bit longer because they did a lot of switching adding and taking off cars. Cannot remember if the northbound train backed into the station or pulled directly in. Regardless of whether it was the southbound or northbound run, the train always entered and departed from the north, thus leaving Jacksonville was always resulted in a reverse direction move for the consist, some of which were 3 to 4 EMD E Units and 21 -26 cars in length.
CMStPnP PJS1 I am surprised that Amtrak has not reduced the long-distance trains to three times a week in each direction.
PJS1 I am surprised that Amtrak has not reduced the long-distance trains to three times a week in each direction.
>> I never had trouble going to sleep.
There aren't that many grade crossings out your way. Last time I rode the Lake Shore the horn blasts were almost continuous.
GERALD A EDGAR Indeed, Amtrak began a long descent for a century of RR sleeper protocol when they put them right behind the power & baggage cars. Consider CUS under normal operating conditions and how far 1st class pass's have to walk to get from the Metro lounge to their sleepers whereas coach pass's have a much shorter jaunt.
Indeed, Amtrak began a long descent for a century of RR sleeper protocol when they put them right behind the power & baggage cars. Consider CUS under normal operating conditions and how far 1st class pass's have to walk to get from the Metro lounge to their sleepers whereas coach pass's have a much shorter jaunt.
But a short-term walk on arrival?
PJS1I am surprise that Amtrak has not reduce the long-distance trains to three times a week in each direction.
That lowers the revenue without necessarily reducing all the fixed costs such as station upkeep, employees, etc. Even if employees are not working and your not paying them, your still paying for accrual of vacation as well as healthcare. Someone did a study a while back of running a train three times a week vs once a day a while back and found the savings were not that great.
Cannot speak to the services offered on the Texas Eagle; but we rode the SW Chief in Feb of this year. Had a good evening dinner in the Dining Car, but used the Snack Bar located on the lower level of the Sightseer Lounge Car...It was well stocked,,but no cooked items were offered, only commercially available packaged and bagged snacks, and bottled drinks. Trip was roughly 12 or so hours on train. Only stops made for short time lengths were for boarding passengers and to allow smokers,off and back on.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
It would be interesting to know how many people are actually riding trains. If it's like the airlines, the ridership would be down 80-90%.
Back again to No. 21, the Texas Eagle. I saw it tonight in Temple, TX. There were no passengers in the dining car, only one in the lounge car, and no one boarded or deboarded the train. Well, that's not exactly true. Two smokers got off the train for a puff. And afterwards got back on.
Makes me wonder. Amtrak dropped the transition sleeper and one coach, presumably due to low ridership. Would it make sense to drop the dining car and up grade the menu in the lounge car?
If the Texas Eagle had four cars as opposed to seven, would there be a significant savings in fuel consumed?
In Jacksonville, the ACL-FEC trains could run through the station. All other through trains had to have a backup move, since only the FEC accesses the station from the south.
The South ladder tracks were used by trains to and from Colorado Sprrings and Pueblo, the Royal Gorge route, the conncection to the AT&SF main. CS-FW&DC to Texas, La Veta Pass to Alamosa, and the MP to Kansas City and St. Louis.
Everything else used the north ladder track, CB&Q east to Chicago, UP-CR&P to Limon and then to KC (UP) and Chicago (CR&P). UP north to Cheyenne, CB&Q north to Billings and East to Chicago, and the D&RGW Moffat Tunnel line. So the CZ always had a back-up move, and the Exposition Flyer before it.
Not sure, but I think I remember reading the South Park, later Co. Sou., narrow gauge also came in from the north.
PJS1On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak.
In 1968, the CZ backed into Denver by going around a wye before the B.U. move. The power was changed. This I believe was the normal routine.
The Denver station was built as a thru station. Sometime in the Amtrak era the south connections were severed, but there were still ladder tracks at both ends. About 10 years ago, the south ladder tracks were removed when the station was rebuilt as a stub ended terminal. Wether CZ pulls-in or backs-in, one way or another it must back thru a leg of the wye formed by the different lines coming into the station from the north, in order to continue the journey.
DeggestyHmm, I wonder which station that was--Dearborn St., LaSalle St., Grand Central, Central? I don't think that Union Station would have given such a problem, but I may be wrong.
I don't believe that it was any of the stations in their most recent configuration. Some of them were built and rebuilt on the same dirt multiple times I believe. Others were abandoned completely in the name of consolidation. My gut tells me we are talking pre 1900 original build date. Obviously since I cant find my source, I can give no meaningful specifics. I wish that I could.
Convicted One Deggesty When I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in. I recall reading somewhere that ORIGINALLY in Chicago, where one of the eastern trunks shared depot space with one of the western roads....the arrangement was causing one of the roads to have to back in.....no I can't cite the source, I looked briefly and can't find it. But what I recall was the explanation that this stated inconveniance was one of the things the road was gladly getting away from years later when moving into one of the consolidated depots that came along.
Deggesty When I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in.
I recall reading somewhere that ORIGINALLY in Chicago, where one of the eastern trunks shared depot space with one of the western roads....the arrangement was causing one of the roads to have to back in.....no I can't cite the source, I looked briefly and can't find it.
But what I recall was the explanation that this stated inconveniance was one of the things the road was gladly getting away from years later when moving into one of the consolidated depots that came along.
Back to the Texas Eagle for a moment. Tonight, April 6th, No. 21 had five cars, which is two or three fewer from its pre-COVID-19 consist.
How much less in percentage would the fuel burn be pulling five cars as opposed to seven?
DeggestyWhen I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in.
When I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in.
Deggesty Quoting Mr. McFarlane "One is the slack action and another is the walking distance for first class passengers, making coach passengers walk further to their cars than sleeping." This does not always hold--when #6 comes into Salt Lake City, the rear of the train is closer to the access to the tracks from the station than the front is. Also, when a train backs into a station such as Denver or New Orleans, the coaches are closer (the last two times I went east, #6 backed into Chicago).
Quoting Mr. McFarlane "One is the slack action and another is the walking distance for first class passengers, making coach passengers walk further to their cars than sleeping."
This does not always hold--when #6 comes into Salt Lake City, the rear of the train is closer to the access to the tracks from the station than the front is. Also, when a train backs into a station such as Denver or New Orleans, the coaches are closer (the last two times I went east, #6 backed into Chicago).
Yes, the downtown stations in Savannah were stub stations. When the "West Savannah" station of the SAL became THE station for trains to/from Florida, the trains ran through.
I had forgotten about Jacksonville. There, the ACL-FEC trains could run through, but others backed in. (I really do not remember if the train backed in when I rode what was left of the Dixie Flyer from Atlanta in 1966; we did come in on one of the stubs).
Even when backing in, the long trains used one of the through tracks at the station; that made splitting/splicing the West Coast Champion easier.
Deggesty PJS1 BaltACD In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station. I remember backing into St. Louis on the Spirit of St. Louis in 1960 or thereabouts. What other major terminals required backing prior to Amtrak? On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak. The union terminal in New Orleans has always required turning on the wye before backing in. I know of only two instances in which a train headed in: in the mid-sixties, when the IC was struck, non-union employees took the Panama from McComb (the union employees had finished their run), and headed in, to make sure they did not overshoot the bumper. In 1989, the train from Chicago was running late and headed in, I do not know why, but I was glad because it gave my wife and me a little more time to call for our rental car. I do not know how the California Zephyr was handled in Denver pre-Amtrak; perhaps in the same way that it is now handled? Though when there were through cars to/from Colorado Springs, it headed in westbound? As to the operation in Chicago, I have no idea as to why the CZ should be backed in. When I have ridden Chicago-New Orleans the train has backed out and backed in because of the current arrangement to reach the station from the former IC.
PJS1 BaltACD In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station. I remember backing into St. Louis on the Spirit of St. Louis in 1960 or thereabouts. What other major terminals required backing prior to Amtrak? On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak.
BaltACD In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station.
I remember backing into St. Louis on the Spirit of St. Louis in 1960 or thereabouts. What other major terminals required backing prior to Amtrak?
On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak.
The union terminal in New Orleans has always required turning on the wye before backing in. I know of only two instances in which a train headed in: in the mid-sixties, when the IC was struck, non-union employees took the Panama from McComb (the union employees had finished their run), and headed in, to make sure they did not overshoot the bumper. In 1989, the train from Chicago was running late and headed in, I do not know why, but I was glad because it gave my wife and me a little more time to call for our rental car.
I do not know how the California Zephyr was handled in Denver pre-Amtrak; perhaps in the same way that it is now handled? Though when there were through cars to/from Colorado Springs, it headed in westbound?
As to the operation in Chicago, I have no idea as to why the CZ should be backed in.
When I have ridden Chicago-New Orleans the train has backed out and backed in because of the current arrangement to reach the station from the former IC.
The B&O backed into Washington Union Station, the PRR with their electric GG-1's pulled their trains in. As I recall the ACL and SAL backed into the stations at Savannah and Jacksonville. When the all B&O route through Pittsburgh was utilized for through trains, they backed into Grant Street Station from Glenwood Jct. When using the P&LE route all moves were pull through as the P&LE station was not stub ended.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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