zugmann Just curious - do you have any medical training?
Just curious - do you have any medical training?
The SARS mortality rate was about 10%, not 35% as stated erroneously by Mr. McFarlane, , but was much less tranmissable.
BaltACDI am of the opinion that as a society we have become 'too clean'. The Immune System is the figher of the human body. Like all fighters it needs to be exercised to stay 'sharp' and 'in shape' to be able to do its job. Humans living in a agrarian society were surrounded on a daily basis with all sorts of 'attackers' that the immune system would spar with and remain active.
Reminds me of that episode of "Married with Children" where Peg won a week's personal training from "Jim Jupiter: the healthiest man in Chicago", and within the week he had descended to her level and died.
I think there is some truth to what you say, but in contrast we have made quite a bit of progress in other areas, so I guess we get to a "pick your poison" type scenario.
charlie hebdo The SARS mortality rate was about 10%, not 35% as stated erroneously by Mr. McFarlane, , but was much less tranmissable. Hopefully if you got Sars you may bee at least somewhat immune ?
The SARS mortality rate was about 10%, not 35% as stated erroneously by Mr. McFarlane, , but was much less tranmissable. Hopefully if you got Sars you may bee at least somewhat immune ?
What's your point? Yes, Sars-CoV-2 is related, but not the same through mutation and recombination. But the SARS mortality rate that was quoted by McFarlane at 35% was wrong. It also was less widespread with a lower total number of deaths.
My point is
1. Do not panic
2. Plan for the worse
3. hope for the best and how many will not or just get a mild case.
4. Probably some where between 2 and 3.
5. No one yet knows how many persons will get Covid-19 ?
6. The isolation that is being set up now is very important so that there will not be a spike in cases over whelming the health care system.
7. Number 6 will mean the epidenic will streach out over a longer time period. That means some of us do not sick in April but may in August. Maybe some anit-viral will be developed or one already in service might be useful ? But this is all speculation but just go back to #1 and prepare for the worse.
A recent study from Germany shows that people in early stage, asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic where viral shedding occurs are about one thousand times more infectious to others than someone with SARS was.
Caution is far safer than acting with complacency .
Copied from the L-line Sandy Repair thread on the Transit Forum:
A posting several pages back stated that there is no cure for a virus and that there is no cure of AIDS.
There was an announcement serveral months ago in the Jerusalem Post that israeli doctors have developed a cure for AIDS. There may be material that can be Googled on the internet, and those interested can look it up.
An Israeli firm and a Texas firm are both promising a vacine for Coronavirus. I do not know if this is a case of "who gets there first," or if they will collaborate for the common good.
Deleted
Nice news, if it were substantiated, but definitely not available now or in the near term.
However, Israeli researchers have made claims for not only cures and vaccines for AIDS, but also cancer in recent years.
https://pesacheck.org/false-israeli-doctors-have-not-found-a-vaccine-and-cure-for-hiv-and-aids-c2c255bcafbb
Possibly what they called a cure was simply putting an HIV positive person on a treatment cocktail (immunosuppresants and/or protease inhibitors) which would drop the viral load to "undetectable" in two weeks. That phenomenon has been occurring for years, but is not a cure, as discontinuing the meds causes the viral load to rebound.
Anti virals are the only thing that will help but not a cure. I believe that so far there is only one person has been treated to be free of HIV ? Let us hope a vacine can be produced before every person that will catch covid=19 does catch it.
PJS1NKP guy This might be a simple test for those who believe the public is "over-reacting": 1. Which airline or Amtrak tickets have you bought this week or are willing to commit to for next week? 2. Name the common stocks you bought this week or will commit to for next week.
1. Which airline or Amtrak tickets have you bought this week or are willing to commit to for next week?
2. Name the common stocks you bought this week or will commit to for next week.
1. I had Amtrak tickets Chicago - Ann Arbor to attend my granddaughters Masters degree graduation but it was cancelled. Just got a refund on the refundable ticket and a voucher on the non refunadable.
2. I have not sold any of my stocks. I can't time the market and while I think it will recover much of it loss in the next two years as it did in 2008, it was at highs that were, in my opinion unsustainable. Also, I hold stocks that have decent dividends and don't buy to speculate. And where would I put it? 0.9% interest doen't seem attractive to me.
blue streak 1Anti virals are the only thing that will help but not a cure. I believe that so far there is only one person has been treated to be free of HIV ? Let us hope a vacine can be produced before every person that will catch covid=19 does catch it.
TV has been advertizing a number of products aimed at reducing the HIV virus load below detectable levels. To one extent or another they must be effective (and if they are being advertized on TV they MUST BE EXPENSIVE).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Here's the latest idiocy from the CDC, slow the spread using "social distancing" so that we don't overwhelm our medical facilities and have far more deaths than necessary and this should be over with in ONE to TWO years. I'd rather let the disease take it's course over a shorter time frame and get back to normal sooner rather than later. Don't quarantine, don't isolate, as a matter of fact I don't even worry about it, if I get it I'll let my body develop it's own immunities, don't want a man-made vacine that will just be circumvented by the disease mutating. It's in the same family as SARS(35% mortality), MERS(10% mortality) and EBOLA(50% mortality) with COVID-19 right now at about .1% mortality, now tell me why we should be freaking out over this?
Well, according to the McFarland Clinic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSJfwuAzY1M
From Jerusalem Post this morningL
200 Israelis have tested positive for coronavirus, 157 of whom are hospitalized and five more are expected to be hospitalized, the Health Ministry reported on Sunday morning. According to the ministry just two of the 200 are in serious condition, 11 are in moderate condition, 178 are in light condition and four are considered to be recovered. The four patients who recovered have been sent home.
My count is a total of 197. The missing three may be the three called recovered earlier, or possibly there is another explanaition.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/coronavirus-the-urgent-search-for-a-cure-for-covid-19-a-fd4c9a3a-ab4e-4590-b95b-a1c01d8b9d61
Treatment options. Trump tried to bribe the now ex-CEO of a German company to have the medication for profit and exclusively for Americans. Utterly irreponsonsible.
You made an unsupported claim previously , likely untrue about AIDS. You should retract it and stop such posts.
Chloroquine and/or hydroxychloroquine are being shown to be an effective as prophylaxis. It is an old drug, used for years for several conditions including rheumatoid arthritis.
Charlie, I only report on what I read in the Jerusalem Post. I do not make up things out of my head and you are wrong to accuse me of doing so. I will try to find he AIDS cure on the web and point it out to you.
But the main point is that our local Health Ministry has stated the four people have been cured of Coronavirus. There possibly may actually be seven. That should bring hope to those who otherwise said it is incurable, as was said of AIDS.
As regards AIDS, this is from the New York Times:
Both milestones resulted from bone-marrow transplants given to infected patients. But the transplants were intended to treat cancer in the patients, not H.I.V.
Bone-marrow transplantation is unlikely to be a realistic treatment option in the near future. Powerful drugs are now available to control H.I.V. infection, while the transplants are risky, with harsh side effects that can last for years
“This will inspire people that cure is not a dream,” said Dr. Annemarie Wensing, a virologist at the University Medical Center Utrecht in the Netherlands. “It’s reachable.”
Dr. Wensing is co-leader of IciStem, a consortium of European scientists studying stem cell transplants to treat H.I.V. infection. The consortium is supported by AMFAR, the American AIDS research organization.
The new patient has chosen to remain anonymous, and the scientists referred to him only as the “London patient.”
“I feel a sense of responsibility to help the doctors understand how it happened so they can develop the science,” he told The New York Timesin an email.
At the same conference in 2007, a German doctor described the first such cure in the “Berlin patient,” later identified as Timothy Ray Brown, 52, who now lives in Palm Springs, Calif.
That news, displayed on a poster at the back of a conference room, initially gained little attention. Once it became clear that Mr. Brown was cured, scientists set out to duplicate his result with other cancer patients infected with H.I.V.
In case after case, the virus came roaring back, often around nine months after the patients stopped taking antiretroviral drugs, or else the patients died of cancer. The failures left scientists wondering whether Mr. Brown’s cure would remain a fluke.
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Mr. Brown had had leukemia, and after chemotherapy failed to stop it, needed two bone-marrow transplants.
The transplants were from a donor with a mutation in a protein called CCR5, which rests on the surface of certain immune cells. H.I.V. uses the protein to enter those cells but cannot latch on to the mutated version.
Mr. Brown was given harsh immunosuppressive drugs of a kind that are no longer used, and suffered intense complications for months after the transplant. He was placed in an induced coma at one point and nearly died.
“He was really beaten up by the whole procedure,” said Dr. Steven Deeks, an AIDS expert at the University of California, San Francisco, who has treated Mr. Brown. “And so we’ve always wondered whether all that conditioning, a massive amount of destruction to his immune system, explained why Timothy was cured but no one else.”
The London patient has answered that question: A near-death experience is not required for the procedure to work.
He had Hodgkin’s lymphoma and received a bone-marrow transplant from a donor with the CCR5 mutation in May 2016. He, too, received immunosuppressive drugs, but the treatment was much less intense, in line with current standards for transplant patients.
He quit taking anti-H.I.V. drugs in September 2017, making him the first patient since Mr. Brown known to remain virus-free for more than a year after stopping.
“I think this does change the game a little bit,” said Dr. Ravindra Gupta, a virologist at University College London who presented the findings at the Seattle meeting. “Everybody believed after the Berlin patient that you needed to nearly die basically to cure H.I.V., but now maybe you don’t.”
Although the London patient was not as ill as Mr. Brown had been after the transplant, the procedure worked about as well: The transplant destroyed the cancer without harmful side effects. The transplanted immune cells, now resistant to H.I.V., seem to have fully replaced his vulnerable cells.
Most people with the H.I.V.-resistant mutation, called delta 32, are of Northern European descent. IciStem maintains a database of about 22,000 such donors.
So far, its scientists are tracking 38 H.I.V.-infected people who have received bone-marrow transplants, including six from donors without the mutation.
The London patient is 36 on this list. Another one, number 19 on the list and referred to as the “Düsseldorf patient,” has been off anti-H.I.V. drugs for four months. Details of that case will be presented at the Seattle conference later this week.
The consortium’s scientists have repeatedly analyzed the London patient’s blood for signs of the virus. They saw a weak indication of continued infection in one of 24 tests, but say this may be the result of contamination in the sample.
The most sensitive test did not find any circulating virus. Antibodies to H.I.V. were still present in his blood, but their levels declined over time, in a trajectory similar to that seen in Mr. Brown.
None of this guarantees that the London patient is forever out of the woods, but the similarities to Mr. Brown’s recovery offer reason for optimism, Dr. Gupta said.
“In a way, the only person to compare with directly is the Berlin patient,” he said. “That’s kind of the only standard we have at the moment.”
“Yes, I would like to meet the London patient very much. I would say, take your time in— If you want to become public, do it. And it’s been very useful for science and for giving hope to H.I.V. positive people.” “We waited 16 months before stopping in the post-transplant period just to make sure that the cancer was in remission, the patient was well and that the measures we had of the H.I.V. reservoir in the body showed that there was very, very little virus there if any at all. And at that point, we stopped the treatment. And so we’re now 18 months in and we’re confident that this will be a long-term remission, but it’s too early to say as to whether this is a cure or not.”
Timothy Ray Brown, the first person to be cured of H.I.V., and Dr. Ravindra Gupta, a virologist, speak on the second patient who appears to have been cured of an H.I.V. infection. That patient has chosen to remain anonymous.CreditCredit...Jane Stockdale for The New York Times
Most experts who know the details agree that the new case seems like a legitimate cure, but some are uncertain of its relevance for AIDS treatment overall.
“I’m not sure what this tells us,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “It was done with Timothy Ray Brown, and now here’s another case — ok, so now what? Now where do we go with it?”
One possibility, said Dr. Deeks and others, is to develop gene-therapy approaches to knock out CCR5 on immune cells or their predecessor stem cells. Resistant to H.I.V. infection, these modified cells should eventually clear the body of the virus.
(CCR5 is the protein that He Jiankui, a scientist in China, claimed to have modified with gene editing in at least two children, in an attempt to make them resistant to H.I.V. — an experiment that set off international condemnation.)
Several companies are pursuing gene therapies but have not yet been successful. The modification must target the right number of cells, in the right place — only the bone marrow, for example, and not the brain — and tweak only the genes directing production of CCR5.
“There are a number of levels of precision that must be reached,” said Dr. Mike McCune, a senior adviser on global health to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. “There are also concerns that you might do something untoward, and if so you might wish to have a kill switch.”
Several teams are working on all of these obstacles, Dr. McCune said. Eventually, they may be able to develop a viral delivery system that, when injected into the body, seeks out all CCR5 receptors and deletes them, or even a donor stem cell that is resistant to H.I.V. but could be given to any patient.
“These are dreams, right? Things on the drawing table,” Dr. McCune said. “These dreams are motivated by cases like this — it helps us to imagine what might be done in the future.”
One important caveat to any such approach is that the patient would still be vulnerable to a form of H.I.V. called X4, which employs a different protein, CXCR4, to enter cells.
“This is only going to work if someone has a virus that really only uses CCR5 for entry — and that’s actually probably about 50 percent of the people who are living with H.I.V., if not less,” said Dr. Timothy J. Henrich, an AIDS specialist at the University of California, San Francisco.
Even if a person harbors only a small number of X4 viruses, they may multiply in the absence of competition from their viral cousins. There is at least one reported case of an individual who got a transplant from a delta 32 donor but later rebounded with the X4 virus. (As a precaution against X4, Mr. Brown is taking a daily pill to prevent H.I.V. infection.)
Mr. Brown says he is hopeful that the London patient’s cure proves as durable as his own. “If something has happened once in medical science, it can happen again,” Mr. Brown said. “I’ve been waiting for company for a long time.”
BaltACD I am of the opinion that as a society we have become 'too clean'. The Immune System is the figher of the human body. Like all fighters it needs to be exercised to stay 'sharp' and 'in shape' to be able to do its job. Humans living in a agrarian society were surrounded on a daily basis with all sorts of 'attackers' that the immune system would spar with and remain active. In the urban enviornments of a century ago there were more than enough opponents to keep the immune system working to protect us. 50 or 60 years ago did we EVER hear of all the common food allergies that seem to afflict children (for the most part) in todays world. Children, I hypotheses, that have been raised in a 'hyper clean' situation where their immune system has been 'looking for a fight' and instead of finding a real opponent of disease or other contagion has picked on a food source just to have something to fight. I am not a doctor and have had NO MEDICAL TRAINING - YMMV.
I am of the opinion that as a society we have become 'too clean'. The Immune System is the figher of the human body. Like all fighters it needs to be exercised to stay 'sharp' and 'in shape' to be able to do its job. Humans living in a agrarian society were surrounded on a daily basis with all sorts of 'attackers' that the immune system would spar with and remain active. In the urban enviornments of a century ago there were more than enough opponents to keep the immune system working to protect us.
50 or 60 years ago did we EVER hear of all the common food allergies that seem to afflict children (for the most part) in todays world. Children, I hypotheses, that have been raised in a 'hyper clean' situation where their immune system has been 'looking for a fight' and instead of finding a real opponent of disease or other contagion has picked on a food source just to have something to fight.
I am not a doctor and have had NO MEDICAL TRAINING - YMMV.
I suspect that in the past many children who had conditions such as food allergies or weak immune systems would die at a young age, for no apparent reason other than being 'sickly'.
However, I agree that playing outside in the dirt is good for kids, having done a lot of that myself in my younger days.
I'm also not a doctor and have NO MEDICAL TRAINING.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
The interesting thing is, I haven't heard or seen any reports of any children coming down with coronavirus, unless I've missed something, but I don't think I have.
Those that get it all seem to be mature adults, by that I mean ages 20 and older.
Interesting, if that's the case.
Flintlock76The interesting thing is, I haven't heard or seen any reports of any children coming down with coronavirus, unless I've missed something, but I don't think I have.
I read a report that said some children had gotten the virus, but that in the entire world, not one child ten-years-old or younger had died from it. Amazing!
York1 John
York1 Flintlock76 The interesting thing is, I haven't heard or seen any reports of any children coming down with coronavirus, unless I've missed something, but I don't think I have. I read a report that said some children had gotten the virus, but that in the entire world, not one child ten-years-old or younger had died from it. Amazing!
Flintlock76 The interesting thing is, I haven't heard or seen any reports of any children coming down with coronavirus, unless I've missed something, but I don't think I have.
Something like the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-1919. The disease attacked adults in the age bracket of 20-50, children or young adults less than 20 (for the most part) didn't seem to be affected, although I believe there were exceptions.
Most adults over 50 didn't seem to be susceptible to it either, although there were exceptions too. Odd how these things work.
There's no-one living now who remembers the Spanish Flu from first-hand experience (it killed more people than the First World War did, fifty to sixty million) but I can't help but think if there were they'd be laughing at the panic over COVID-19.
"You people don't know what terror really means!"
As to the flu, a cousin of my mother died; I do not kow how old she was, perhaps ten or younger--and her mother also had the flu, and she lived for many years more, dying in 1954, full of years. So far as I know, my mother (about 23 years old at the time) did not have the flu.
Johnny
But then again, 100+ years ago, the whole world pretty much was trying to kill you. What was a little flu?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Made my normal Sunday trip to the grocery store. From the condition of the shelves people must be stocking up to tide them through to the Autumnal Equinox - if what they bought this week doesn't spoil before then.
TP - GonePaper Towels - GoneChicken - GoneHam - GoneSliced Cheese - GoneShredded Cheese - normal quantity displayedBread - 90% GoneLiquid Dairy products - appear available in normal quantities.Went out for my normal afternoon walk - I don't, in 12 years of walking this neighborhood, I have ever seen so many people out walking or running - EVER - and the temperature is in the low 50's with a 5-10 MPH North/Northeast wind.
zugmann But then again, 100+ years ago, the whole world pretty much was trying to kill you. What was a little flu?
Yes, guess depending on where you lived or where you were. The Western Front was a pretty unhealthy place to be, in more ways than one!
By the way, if you haven't seen "1917" do so! Great film! Can't beat it as a period piece, attention to detail is superb! The story? It's a story.
Balt, maybe everyone's out walkin' 'cause there's no sports on the tube?
By the way, I can't figure out the runs (no pun intended) on TP. I've read the symptoms of COVID-19 and I don't recall "The Poops" being one of them.
BaltACDefore then. TP - Gone Paper Towels - Gone Chicken - Gone Ham - Gone Sliced Cheese - Gone Shredded Cheese - normal quantity displayed Bread - 90% Gone Liquid Dairy products - appear available in normal quantities.
Gas is below $2.00/gallon too, gotta recognize the good with the bad.
Flintlock76maybe everyone's out walkin' 'cause there's no sports on the tube?
So, how do you feel personally about them closing the public schools? All the major school systems in my country are locked down. And I think it's a wise move. Those schools are a huge potential vector, imo.
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