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An Over-reaction? Locked

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, June 1, 2020 1:52 PM

I'm wondering, Charlie just what your post has to do with the subject of this thread? Please advise. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, June 1, 2020 3:18 PM

54light15
I'm wondering, Charlie just what your post has to do with the subject of this thread? Please advise. 

I'd say that neither side has clean hands here, two wrongs never make a right.  Bang Head

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, June 1, 2020 3:56 PM

This thread has been all over the place since its inception. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, June 1, 2020 4:27 PM

It does appear that many many citizens all across these united states are now  determined to follow Rahm Emanuel's play book.  I even saw looters wearing face masks!

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, June 1, 2020 8:33 PM

This patient has tested positive for Covid-19  88+ days from first infection. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 1, 2020 9:20 PM

Convicted One
  I even saw looters wearing face masks!

Kind of makes sense.  What's the point of plundering if you get sick and can't enjoy the swag?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 1, 2020 9:21 PM

You, the BBC, and Ha'Aretz are discustingly indifferemt to the daily incitement to murder that comes from "Palestinian" radio, TV, newspapers, and classrooms.

I am very deeply grieved over the death of that young man.   But I also understand why it happened.

The policeman thought the cellphone was a gun and that his life was in danger.

And I have seen policemen help Arabs, both citizens of Israel and those holding PA identity cars, enough times, so I believe what the policeman said.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 1, 2020 9:37 PM

Since David's the man on site over there I'll take his word on events there before anyone elses, thank you very much!

You see, some European friends of mine told me years ago that if I was relying on the American press to keep me informed of events in Europe, then I didn't know what was happening in Europe.

By the same token, they found after living in the US for a short period of time the reverse was true.  If they relyed on the European press to keep them informed of events in the US, then they didn't know what was happening in the US! 

Mind you, this was  in the pre-internet days.  But even today I wouldn't be so sure of what I see.  Remember the old saying, "News reports are just the first draft of history."  

And as far as agendas, the existance or "non" thereof, I'm not going there.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 1, 2020 10:13 PM

daveklepper
The policeman thought the cellphone was a gun and that his li.fe waS IN DAnger  

They haven't been imported to this country since their configuration makes them automatically illegal, but there have been handguns made overseas disguised as cell phones for quite a while now.  American law enforcement personnel have been warned about them for years, just in case some come in "under the radar." 

 

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, June 1, 2020 10:21 PM

To get a reasonably decent view of what's happening in Europe, especially the U.K. read The Guardian on line. When I'm in London, that's the paper I buy every day. The news you get from over there is not the news you get over here. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, June 1, 2020 10:48 PM

Flintlock76
Kind of makes sense.  What's the point of plundering if you get sick and can't enjoy the swag?

 

Especially with video surveillance cameras everywhere.Movie

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, June 1, 2020 11:01 PM

Flintlock76
before anyone elses, thank you very much!

The chronic lack of objectivity can grow tedious at times.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 7:44 AM

After partial restoration of Israeli public transit:

As public transport continue to be plagued by issues and complaints as it returns to service after the coronavirus lockdown, the Knesset Economic Committee met on Tuesday to discuss plans going forward to ensure public safety while also providing the necessary services.
 
Committee chairman MK Yakov Margi (Shas) questioned why private companies weren't used in order to lighten the load.  "Why wasn't a plan made to use the critical mass of private operators sitting at home?" asked Margi. "I know of franchises and laws, but the government knows how to operate in emergency regulations. We could have formed parallel platforms and routes of private operators. It would cost money, but in times of crisis it was necessary to give all possible aid."
 
Deputy Transportation Minister MK Ori Maklev (UTJ) agreed with Margi, but added that former transportation minister Betzalel Smotrich did not do so because the treasury wouldn't allow it.
 
National Public Transportation Authority director Amir Asraf told the committee that Israel has about 11,000 buses and 16,000 drivers. In order to keep the same level of service while only allowing 20 passengers on each bus, the country would need three times the amount of buses it currently has. The limit would increase the subsidy budget by NIS 1.5 billion annually.
 
Asraf added that Israel Railways is expected to return to full service on June 8. "We installed thermal cameras on the train and can locate people with fevers," said Asraf. "This is the agreement that allowed us to look different this past week. The pictures [of the crowding] were not repeated."
 
Despite Asraf's statements, Margi said that he suspects that trains will not return to operations next week if a clear plan is not developed by the Transportation Ministry to protect public health/
 
As users are still prohibited from paying with cash on buses in order to reduce contact between drivers and passengers, new payment apps for public transportation are expected to enter service on June 25 if they successfully complete a pilot project and meet Transportation Ministry requirements, according to Calcalist.
 
The new system will monitor how users travel and will choose the cheapest option based on their travel at the end of each month. New fare rates and discounts will be available as well.
 
With the advent of the new applications, public transportation users will need to open up the app after getting on a bus or intercity train, choose which form of public transport they’re on and then scan a QR code placed on every bus and train that will let the app know which line they’re on, according to Calcalist. The user will then need to indicate how long they’re planning on traveling on the line in order to be charged the correct fee. The app will then provide a payment confirmation, which users can show to inspectors if they’re asked to prove that they paid.
 
"The scenario of horrors we warned about throughout the coronavirus crisis is coming to fruition with the release of worrying data from verified patients on public transport," warned Yisrael Ganon, Chairman of the Bus Drivers Union of the Histadrut Leumit, at the committee meeting on Tuesday.
 
Ganon demanded that the Health Ministry immediately limit the number of travelers allowed on buses, increase the number of ushers and security guards and to close the front doors of buses until barriers are installed for drivers.
 

Every driver that is infected could infect thousands of passengers per day until he enters quarantine," added Ganon. "We won't agree at any price to risk the lives of drivers and passengers. Buses have turned into an actual ticking time bomb. It's time to stop abandoning drivers and passengers.

My own experience is that Egged Jerusalem transit buses have transparent plastic sheets separating the drivers from the passengers, that most passengers enter and leave via doors other than the front one anyway, that nobody uses cash but swipes a card on machines spaced throughout the bus.

Light rail always had a glass partition with a closed door betwen the driver and the passengers and never had cash onboard.

Social distancing has been observed on all my puvlic transit trips since restoration..

However, my most recent trip on an Arab bus, two weeks ago, had cash fare as my only payment choice.  The bus was a small one-door hood-in-front, but once I paid, the driver motioned me to sit near the rear, and there were only three other passengers, and social distancing was observed.  The small buses are a minority.

I probably should avoid Arab buses until they have a non-cash payment system that I can use.

All drivers and all passengers wore face-masks on all three systems. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:38 AM

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 10:03 AM

 

I understand they are going to fine all the U.S. national protesters for not maintaining social distancing and then quarantine them for 14 days in order to prevent their recklessness from starting a second wave.

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 11:07 AM

Flintlock76

Since David's the man on site over there I'll take his word on events there before anyone elses, thank you very much!

You see, some European friends of mine told me years ago that if I was relying on the American press to keep me informed of events in Europe, then I didn't know what was happening in Europe.

By the same token, they found after living in the US for a short period of time the reverse was true.  If they relyed on the European press to keep them informed of events in the US, then they didn't know what was happening in the US! 

Mind you, this was  in the pre-internet days.  But even today I wouldn't be so sure of what I see.  Remember the old saying, "News reports are just the first draft of history."  

And as far as agendas, the existance or "non" thereof, I'm not going there.

 

The article was BBC and the reports were also in Haaretz (ISRAEL)  and der Spiegel. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 12:02 PM
I did read Ha’Aretz pretty regularly at the HU Library and found it to very consistently omit or downplay “Palelstinian” leadership instigating violence.   A headline about an Arab being killed by a an Israeli soldier or policeman failed to state or buried deep in the article that he or she was carrying explosives for suicide terrorism or carrying a concealed weapon or some combination.
 

I’ve received reports about similar news-slanting by the BBC but admit not to have first-hand experience

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:39 PM

ObjectivitTests:

How much space or time did Ha'Aretz and the BBC give the USA Reform Movement's condemnation of Trump's movimng trhe Embassy from TA to Jerusalem as compared with that Movement's reversal of that position shortly afterward?

Ditto comparing Abbas''s most recentr UN speech as very next speech in Ramallah?

And can you find any discussion of material in "Palestinian" textbooks, radio and TV broadcasts, Mosque speeches, newspapers?

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 4:36 PM

Euclid

 

I understand they are going to fine all the U.S. national protesters for not maintaining social distancing and then quarantine them for 14 days in order to prevent their recklessness from starting a second wave.

 

 

They?

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 4:52 PM

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid

 

I understand they are going to fine all the U.S. national protesters for not maintaining social distancing and then quarantine them for 14 days in order to prevent their recklessness from starting a second wave.

 

 

 

 

They?

 

 

The social distancing police.  The ones who issure citations for being outside of your house without an approved reason.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:29 PM

charlie hebdo
The article was BBC and the reports were also in Haaretz (ISRAEL)  and der Spiegel. 

And?

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:59 PM

Euclid
 
Murphy Siding 
Euclid 

I understand they are going to fine all the U.S. national protesters for not maintaining social distancing and then quarantine them for 14 days in order to prevent their recklessness from starting a second wave. 

They? 

The social distancing police.  The ones who issure citations for being outside of your house without an approved reason.

Must only be in your neighborhood.  I presume you have been cited and now have a court date?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Convicted One on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:13 PM

Flintlock76
And?

When I was younger, I used to be a short wave radio enthusiast. And I used to enjoy the differences in perspective available from foreign news services, compared to what we are often spoon fed here by domestic media.

BBC was one source I used to value.

Bias is not at all uncommon from any source that has a vested interest in what they are reporting. 

Yes, you know what I mean.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 8:45 AM

I admitt to having a vested interest in my surviva.  Is that a bias?.  And the BBC has the infamous White Paper of 1939, the British Colonial Office 1926-1938 appointment of Hitler's friend Mufti Haaj Al Husseini as Jerusalem Mufti, arming the Arab armies in Israel's 1948 War of Independence, and more as background.  As for Ha'Aretz, for many of its writers and editors, with some imporant exceptions, Karl Marx is a much greater Jew than Moses, and the two greatests sins in the world are Capitalism and Nationalism.

I don't think I let my biasis interfere with my objectivity.  I was almost killed, rescued only because two older boys from my school arrived on time, on the NW corner of 88th Street and Central Park West at age 8+, October or November 1940, because I answered "yes" to the question of whether I was a Jew, asked by two teenage followers of Father Coughlin and students at a Parochial School.  Yet my best friend at MIT, room-mate for four years, was a Roman Catholic, Eugene Romer.

When bandaging my headwound, my Dad reminded me that there were good and bad people in every population, including our own.

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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 3:37 PM

daveklepper
Is that a bias?. 

When you go from zero to drawing parallels with Hitler in response to a single post,  as you have now done twice, I think it is.

Personally I don't believe that either side over there has clean hands., and I really doubt that your efforts to force feed facts are changing many minds here. 

I don't mean you any harm, but I would like to ask you to consider that the one sided nature of your narrative might be trampling on the sensitivities of  some members who do not share your POV.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:20 PM
1. I did not bring up this off-topic matter, but "Charlie" did, and my point of       
view''good and bad in every population" should offend nobody without prejudice.

2.  The policeman is now under house arrest, and there is an investigation to       determine if he used excessive force and disobeyed his commander's specific       orders to stop shooting.   Hopefully, Ha'Aretz will; report that today.  I doubt that the BBC will.                                                                                                  
 

3. The Chief Ashlenasi Rabbi made the appropriate condolance visit.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:56 PM

Euclid

 

 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid

 

I understand they are going to fine all the U.S. national protesters for not maintaining social distancing and then quarantine them for 14 days in order to prevent their recklessness from starting a second wave.

 

 

 

 

They?

 

 

 

 

The social distancing police.  The ones who issure citations for being outside of your house without an approved reason.

 

Where in the country have they been doing that? The closest thing I've heard of anything even remotely similar to that is of the drunken Polish man who jumped into the bear exibit at a zoo and tried to drown a bear. Among his other charges, he was cited for not wearing a mask on public.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, June 4, 2020 12:56 AM

daveklepper
When bandaging my headwound, my Dad reminded me that there were good and bad people in every population, including our own.

Dave, That is very true. My view is that the current Israel was "created" when the UN adopted the partition plan in 1947. This was of course not accepted by the existing people (somewhat like the native north american indians did not accept that the colonists had the right to claim their land. And so the fights began. Now the Palistinians won't concede that the Jews have the right to dictate what land is still theirs and the current Israeli govenment chooses to add injury to insult by commandeering additional land to build more settlements. This is like salt on a wound. Or like tormenting an animal and then wondering why it protests by snarling and biting. I don't see either side finding a common ground solution but wish there were a way to find one. 

And tribes, in many areas such as the Croations and the Serbians, the Hindu's and the Muslims, etc. carry long memories of previous atrocities and can't or won't forget and forgive, and so the pain and suffering continue. So I will end this with the thought of the husband asking his wife, "What did I do" after she has glowered at him. She replies, "You know what you did!" and he doesn't have a clue. So the marriage feud continues. Many of us (I think but can't prove) wish there was some way to find common ground and have a peaceful solution and had hope when Jimmy Carter had the meeting at Camp David but someone didn't want it to suceed (not included in the talks) and it didn't. Many people are suffering and no one is willing to yield so the battles continue. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, June 4, 2020 1:06 AM

I find I did not respond completely to Convicted's "parallels with Hitler accusation."

1.  You have to know that Charlie's bringing up this off-topic was as painful to me as if he had discussed the Munich Olympic murderors or the death by drowning of my very best friend Jonti at the time of the September 1939 Athena U-boat attack.  That impaired young man could have been the son of one of my close Jerusalem Arab friends.  What you are saying is that it is perfectly OK for people to upset me, but I should be forbidden to upset you, even when I have facts to disprove your analysis.

2.  Summer 1996, Arafat threw out the Jordanian textbooks that the Israeli military administration had used and are still in use by the Jerusalem education department in Jerusalem Arab schools.  He substituted textbooks translated from those of Hitler's Germany.  If you give me your email address, I will send you translations of PLO, PA, and Hamas current media material, and you will clearly see the real Nazi identity of this material.

The very month following Arafat's textbook change, Bill Clinton announced "Everything signed in the year 2000."

In addition to downplaying this incitement, the sad condition of the most persecuted community on the earth, Near-Eastern Christians, lacks decent reporting in Western media.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, June 4, 2020 1:26 AM

Elecroliner: Who told you the Israeli Government takes additional land to build new settlements?

Except for the few remaining illegal "outposts." nearly all of which the Israeli Government has demolished already and is in the process of removing the rest, all setllemts are on land that was either owned directly by Jews before the 1948 takeover by Jordan or was clearly government property, not private property.  The Israeli court system has systematically upheald Arab rights to property they own in Judea and Samarea and the eastern part of Jerusalem.

Since Oslo, all "expansion of settlements" has occured by building within land already part of those settlements. 

And the sitiuation existed long before Camp David and long before the UN.  Jews and Arabs were mostly at peace after the Arabs tossed out the European Crusaders, until the appointment of the Grand Mufti Haaj Al Husseini by the British in 1926.  He immediately set up using parts of the Koran crticial of Jews (clearly not Jews living in the Holy Land and not following Jewish Sacred teachings) as appplying to all Jews and claimed that Jews were about to blow-up the Al Aksa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock (Jews had helped in construction of the latter) and his teaching resuted in the Pogrom of 1929 and the elimination of the many-centuries-old Hebron Jewish community.

Please read the Koran's Surahs 5-20+21, 7-13y7, and 93-10.  Up to the time of the Mufti, Muslims understood them.  Thus Joseph Navon and the area's first railroad, Jaffa-Jerusalem, chartered 1888, opened 1892.

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