Tracking performance and efficiency is better than ever, thanks to advanced metrics. Treating employees like cannon fodder is not just unprincipled and outdated, it's stupid and ultimately less successful and less profitable. Decency skills work.
Euclid GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Convicted One GERALD L MCFARLANE JR doesn't matter how long an office worker takes to do it, keeping track of your office workers time is old school management practices not valid in todays world. To the contrary, being able to determine how effectively an employee handles their workload, enables management to decide if they can "load up" more work on the employee, or extend them additional "opportunities". Plus, if I have two employees performing roughly the same jobs, and both are completing their duties in half a day......guess what? I know what you're going to say, but a smart businessman would have 3 solutions for such a scenario already in his head. Solution 1 is to solicit more business(the smart move) by slightly lowering your cost. Solution 2 is to make both employees part time(also smart) there by keeping them on the payroll should business grow. Solution 3 is the stupidist one, and that's to fire one employee and make the other do all the work. If you can't figure out why solution 3 is the stupidist I'll give a few days to think about it before telling, but I will give you a hint: If you're for sale you'd be a prime target for Berkshire Hathaway. I have been inside of a lot of different companies, and I never got the sense that management believes that tracking empolyee productivity is old school and not valid. It is quite the contrary. It is a management obsession because they believe that fundamentally no empolyees will pull their share if given the freedom not to. Management welcomes every new tool to micromanage employees. ~snip~ Solution #3 is done all the time. It is probably the most preferred. Typically, there are enough employees to pick up the extra work created by laying off that one empolyee. Basically companies have more work than the existing empolyees can handle. They like to keep it that way so it does not drift into phases where empolyees having nothing to do.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Convicted One GERALD L MCFARLANE JR doesn't matter how long an office worker takes to do it, keeping track of your office workers time is old school management practices not valid in todays world. To the contrary, being able to determine how effectively an employee handles their workload, enables management to decide if they can "load up" more work on the employee, or extend them additional "opportunities". Plus, if I have two employees performing roughly the same jobs, and both are completing their duties in half a day......guess what? I know what you're going to say, but a smart businessman would have 3 solutions for such a scenario already in his head. Solution 1 is to solicit more business(the smart move) by slightly lowering your cost. Solution 2 is to make both employees part time(also smart) there by keeping them on the payroll should business grow. Solution 3 is the stupidist one, and that's to fire one employee and make the other do all the work. If you can't figure out why solution 3 is the stupidist I'll give a few days to think about it before telling, but I will give you a hint: If you're for sale you'd be a prime target for Berkshire Hathaway.
Convicted One GERALD L MCFARLANE JR doesn't matter how long an office worker takes to do it, keeping track of your office workers time is old school management practices not valid in todays world. To the contrary, being able to determine how effectively an employee handles their workload, enables management to decide if they can "load up" more work on the employee, or extend them additional "opportunities". Plus, if I have two employees performing roughly the same jobs, and both are completing their duties in half a day......guess what?
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR doesn't matter how long an office worker takes to do it, keeping track of your office workers time is old school management practices not valid in todays world.
To the contrary, being able to determine how effectively an employee handles their workload, enables management to decide if they can "load up" more work on the employee, or extend them additional "opportunities".
Plus, if I have two employees performing roughly the same jobs, and both are completing their duties in half a day......guess what?
I know what you're going to say, but a smart businessman would have 3 solutions for such a scenario already in his head. Solution 1 is to solicit more business(the smart move) by slightly lowering your cost. Solution 2 is to make both employees part time(also smart) there by keeping them on the payroll should business grow. Solution 3 is the stupidist one, and that's to fire one employee and make the other do all the work.
If you can't figure out why solution 3 is the stupidist I'll give a few days to think about it before telling, but I will give you a hint: If you're for sale you'd be a prime target for Berkshire Hathaway.
I have been inside of a lot of different companies, and I never got the sense that management believes that tracking empolyee productivity is old school and not valid. It is quite the contrary. It is a management obsession because they believe that fundamentally no empolyees will pull their share if given the freedom not to. Management welcomes every new tool to micromanage employees.
~snip~
Solution #3 is done all the time. It is probably the most preferred. Typically, there are enough employees to pick up the extra work created by laying off that one empolyee. Basically companies have more work than the existing empolyees can handle. They like to keep it that way so it does not drift into phases where empolyees having nothing to do.
I'm going to reply to this but specifically reference retail sales work, which is mostly commission work as well. I'm going to guess you can remember when you used to be able to walk into a retail store and there was always someone available to assist you if needed. You never had to walk around to look for help or use a "Call" button to request help. Has anyone noticed people stopped making less impulse buys the more retail outlets streamlined their operations by reducing floor staff? Now you can go into a large retailer and find almost no help at all, that's from slashing expenses at the wrong end of the door. Get rid of your excessive middle management layers and keep lots of staff on the floor. Do you have sales/customer service people standing around doing nothing some of the times? Most likely yes, but they're also always available to assist a customer should one want assistance, and we all know how much people complain about a lack of customer service. Look at some of these companies leadership heirarchies, I can guarantee you they could easily cut 33% to 50% of management staff and not notice a difference(other than the huge savings in payroll and ancilliary expenses).
Also, I was just going for some basic solutions to the problem, there's actually a lot more than just 3 options that could be considered, but I didn't want to get into those as it's not really relevant to the issue...not that any of this is really relevant to what the discussion started out on.
zugmann BaltACD Too damn (hot cold wet windy - take your pick) out there and I gave up smoking 35 years ago. I didn't say smoke - I've never smoked, but if everyone else is getting a cigarette break, I ain't staying inside.
BaltACD Too damn (hot cold wet windy - take your pick) out there and I gave up smoking 35 years ago.
I didn't say smoke - I've never smoked, but if everyone else is getting a cigarette break, I ain't staying inside.
I never smoked and never could figure out why anyone would want to, but in the army, just about everyone else did. Many of them claimed they started smoking when they saw smokers getting breaks that they didn't.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Euclid charlie hebdo Euclid's notions of management are no unions and crack the whip on workers. Pay as little as possible and squeeze every drop of sweat out if them. Sounds like an overseer on a slave plantation. I never suggested any abuse. And your hissing implication about me advocating racism is not subtle. Of course companies want to pay as little as possible. You would do the same. But all it involves is offers made, and accepted or rejected. Nobody is being abused.
charlie hebdo
Euclid's notions of management are no unions and crack the whip on workers. Pay as little as possible and squeeze every drop of sweat out if them. Sounds like an overseer on a slave plantation.
I never suggested any abuse. And your hissing implication about me advocating racism is not subtle. Of course companies want to pay as little as possible. You would do the same. But all it involves is offers made, and accepted or rejected. Nobody is being abused.
If you go back and re-read Charlie's statement, you'll see that he did not imply that you were advocating racism.
Paul of Covington I never smoked and never could figure out why anyone would want to, but in the army, just about everyone else did. Many of them claimed they started smoking when they saw smokers getting breaks that they didn't.
Reminds me of a joke...
A nurse at a VA hospital stepped outside and saw a Vietnam vet lighting one up. "Just when did you start smoking?" she asked.
"Lady, when the first damn VC rocket flew past my head!"
Euclid charlie hebdo zugmann Euclid To the employees who want to get out of the boss's view and work at home, I am sure that those empolyees believe that keeping track of worker productivity is old school management. But most management is not going to see it that way. Of course not. Becuase a lot of those managers are completely unnecessary and are featherbedding their positions. Euclid's notions of management are no unions and crack the whip on workers. Pay as little as possible and squeeze every drop of sweat out if them. Sounds like an overseer on a slave plantation. I never suggested any abuse. And your hissing implication about me advocating racism is not subtle. Of course companies want to pay as little as possible. You would do the same. But all it involves is offers made, and accepted or rejected. Nobody is being abused.
charlie hebdo zugmann Euclid To the employees who want to get out of the boss's view and work at home, I am sure that those empolyees believe that keeping track of worker productivity is old school management. But most management is not going to see it that way. Of course not. Becuase a lot of those managers are completely unnecessary and are featherbedding their positions. Euclid's notions of management are no unions and crack the whip on workers. Pay as little as possible and squeeze every drop of sweat out if them. Sounds like an overseer on a slave plantation.
zugmann Euclid To the employees who want to get out of the boss's view and work at home, I am sure that those empolyees believe that keeping track of worker productivity is old school management. But most management is not going to see it that way. Of course not. Becuase a lot of those managers are completely unnecessary and are featherbedding their positions.
Euclid To the employees who want to get out of the boss's view and work at home, I am sure that those empolyees believe that keeping track of worker productivity is old school management. But most management is not going to see it that way.
Of course not. Becuase a lot of those managers are completely unnecessary and are featherbedding their positions.
Sorry. I never accused you of racism but if you are grabbing for that, it may say something about your internal process. I forgot you don't comprehend anything outside of literalistic, concrete statements. Metaphors are beyond your scope.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JRHas anyone noticed people stopped making less impulse buys the more retail outlets streamlined their operations by reducing floor staff? Now you can go into a large retailer and find almost no help at all, that's from slashing expenses at the wrong end of the door
Trust me on this, retail is an art, not a science. And like any other business if you don't understand it it won't matter how well you did at the "MBA Mill," everything you touch will turn to ***.
It's no mystery to me why so many large retailers were failing, even well before COVID-19 reared it's ugly head. The rot started a long time ago.
charlie hebdo Euclid charlie hebdo zugmann Euclid To the employees who want to get out of the boss's view and work at home, I am sure that those empolyees believe that keeping track of worker productivity is old school management. But most management is not going to see it that way. Of course not. Becuase a lot of those managers are completely unnecessary and are featherbedding their positions. Euclid's notions of management are no unions and crack the whip on workers. Pay as little as possible and squeeze every drop of sweat out if them. Sounds like an overseer on a slave plantation. I never suggested any abuse. And your hissing implication about me advocating racism is not subtle. Of course companies want to pay as little as possible. You would do the same. But all it involves is offers made, and accepted or rejected. Nobody is being abused. Sorry. I never accused you of racism but if you are grabbing for that, it may say something about your internal process. I forgot you don't comprehend anything outside of literalistic, concrete statements. Metaphors are beyond your scope.
You did not have to use the word. It is all wrapped up in your light hearted metaphor about plantation overseers cracking the whip and squeezing every drop of sweat out of the plantation slaves.
And once again I didn't say that. You made the conflation because you only understand the literal, the concrete use of language. Furthermore, you try to stick your words and ideas in others' posts, over and over. If you don't understand that metaphor, how about cease and desist?
Euclid charlie hebdo Euclid charlie hebdo zugmann Euclid To the employees who want to get out of the boss's view and work at home, I am sure that those empolyees believe that keeping track of worker productivity is old school management. But most management is not going to see it that way. Of course not. Becuase a lot of those managers are completely unnecessary and are featherbedding their positions. Euclid's notions of management are no unions and crack the whip on workers. Pay as little as possible and squeeze every drop of sweat out if them. Sounds like an overseer on a slave plantation. I never suggested any abuse. And your hissing implication about me advocating racism is not subtle. Of course companies want to pay as little as possible. You would do the same. But all it involves is offers made, and accepted or rejected. Nobody is being abused. Sorry. I never accused you of racism but if you are grabbing for that, it may say something about your internal process. I forgot you don't comprehend anything outside of literalistic, concrete statements. Metaphors are beyond your scope. You did not have to use the word. It is all wrapped up in your light hearted metaphor about plantation overseers cracking the whip and squeezing every drop of sweat out of the plantation slaves.
I don't see any allegation of racism.
Charlie is accusing you of supporting management bullying and harassing ALL their workers. In this case the overseer analogy is meant to evoke the abusive tactics practiced by supervisors, not the racism that was behind those actions back during the slavery era.
I am not optimistic that you will understand this explanation, and fear that I have wasted 5 minutes of my precious quarantined time.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
GERALD L MCFARLANE JRw you can go into a large retailer and find almost no help at all, that's from slashing expenses at the wrong end of the door.
I think those changes were geared towards effecting reductions in shrinkage....lol!
Biggest change I've noticed at the big box grocery stores during the pandemic is that the time honored process of offering loss leaders is almost non-existent these days.
After a number of years I just sort of absorbed a rotating schedule for deep discounts on various products, which once you fell in sync with their rotation, you could replenish your own stocks very affordably.
Those rotating schedules are gone now, "sale" prices barely budge the needle anymore.
SD70DudeI don't see any allegation of racism.
I think that it's one of those things where IF you are looking for the opportunity to claim offense, then it's easy to infer what you are looking for.
Sort of like when Charlie was insisting that mention of "states rights" was necessarily a reference to the land of cotton.
If someone looks hard enough for an opportunity to become offended, seldom are they unsuccessful.
Convicted One I think that it's one of those things where IF you are looking for the opportunity to claim offense, then it's easy to infer what you are looking for. Sort of like when Charlie was insisting that mention of "states rights" was necessarily a reference to the land of cotton. If someone looks hard enough for an opportunity to become offended, seldom are they unsuccessful.
Hot crackers, I take exception to that!
SD70Dude I don't see any allegation of racism. Charlie is accusing you of supporting management bullying and harassing ALL their workers.
Charlie is accusing you of supporting management bullying and harassing ALL their workers.
Where did I support management bullying and harassing ALL their workers? All I said is that management expects a full day's work for a day's pay. Does that amount to bullying and harassing the workers?
Euclid SD70Dude I don't see any allegation of racism. Charlie is accusing you of supporting management bullying and harassing ALL their workers. Where did I support management bullying and harassing ALL their workers? All I said is that management expects a full day's work for a day's pay. Does that amount to bullying and harassing the workers?
Management expects 2 days of work for each day the employee is on the property - they feel that with anything less the employees are stealing directly out of their pockets. They feature a day's pay for a day's work is theft by employees.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Flintlock76 GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Has anyone noticed people stopped making less impulse buys the more retail outlets streamlined their operations by reducing floor staff? Now you can go into a large retailer and find almost no help at all, that's from slashing expenses at the wrong end of the door Trust me on this, retail is an art, not a science. And like any other business if you don't understand it won't matter how well you did at the "MBA Mill," everything you touch will turn to ***. It's no mystery to me why so many large retailers were failing, even well before COVID-19 reared it's ugly head. The rot started a long time ago.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Has anyone noticed people stopped making less impulse buys the more retail outlets streamlined their operations by reducing floor staff? Now you can go into a large retailer and find almost no help at all, that's from slashing expenses at the wrong end of the door
Trust me on this, retail is an art, not a science. And like any other business if you don't understand it won't matter how well you did at the "MBA Mill," everything you touch will turn to ***.
SD70DudeHot crackers, I take exception to that!
Can you imagine if President Trump used the word 'plantation' as a metaphor for the workplace?
CNN would simply explode.
Convicted One SD70Dude Hot crackers, I take exception to that! Can you imagine if President Trump used the word 'plantation' as a metaphor for the workplace? CNN would simply explode.
SD70Dude Hot crackers, I take exception to that!
Imagine what Fox would have done if Obama had used that analogy........
GERALD L MCFARLANE JRFirst off, never went to an "MBA Mill"
Whoa! Don't misunderstand Gerald, I'm not throwing rocks at you, I'm agreeing with you! What I was trying to say was much of the damage done to retail has been done by the concept of the "interchangeable executive" fostered by the "MBA Mills," that is an executive can be switched willy-nilly around various businesses and run them sucessfully without a grounding in that business. I think you and I know it ain't necessarily so!
Removing all those "first-contact" personnel who meet and greet the buying public and make shopping a personal and fun experience is and was a major mistake. They were part of the art, you know.
And I wouldn't get rid of the bean counters, I'd just tell them to stay in the back offices and count the beans, and mind their own business otherwise. THAT'S what their paid for!
SD70Dude Convicted One SD70Dude Hot crackers, I take exception to that! Can you imagine if President Trump used the word 'plantation' as a metaphor for the workplace? CNN would simply explode. Imagine what Fox would have done if Obama had used that analogy........
In all fairness to both men, it's not what they say, it's how the context of what they say gets dropped or tortured, depending on who's ax needs to be ground.
Flintlock76 GERALD L MCFARLANE JR First off, never went to an "MBA Mill" Whoa! Don't misunderstand Gerald, I'm not throwing rocks at you, I'm agreeing with you! What I was trying to say was much of the damage done to retail has been done by the concept of the "interchangeable executive" fostered by the "MBA Mills," that is an executive can be switched willy-nilly around various businesses and run them sucessfully without a grounding in that business. I think you and I know it ain't necessarily so! Removing all those "first-contact" personnel who meet and greet the buying public and make shopping a personal and fun experience is and was a major mistake. They were part of the art, you know. And I wouldn't get rid of the bean counters, I'd just tell them to stay in the back offices and count the beans, and mind their own business otherwise. THAT'S what their paid for!
First off, never went to an "MBA Mill"
Have you ever shopped at a Trader Joe's. Good helpful and plentiful persomel. I like shopping there. However, the days of retail clothing stores look limited. Some news feeds are saying J.C.Penney is about to file for bankruptcy, Sears is 90% dead, Macy's closing stores.
The first shoe drops in the work from home battle as the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey, just announced all employees can work from home in perpetuity, even after the office opens back up in September.
I know Twitter is one of those newer social media companies, but the work at home lifestyle is perfect for technology companies that don't need offices as they have no manufacturing facilities, and even programming can be done remotely.
Also, they really aren't the first, I'm not sure if anyone is aware of this but when you call JetBlue's customer service lines you are actually talking to someone at their home. At one time all customer service agents for JetBlue worked from their homes, not sure if that is still the case and they've found that the best customer service agents are those that do work from home.
Customer service is another job that can be done from home easily, heck, that could bring customer service jobs back to the U.S. from India, if companies did it correctly.
Electroliner 1935Have you ever shopped at a Trader Joe's
I haven't, but I do patronise some local establishments staffed with folks more than willing to drop what they're doing and assist you. Those places "get it," which is why they get me!
J.C. Penney, Sears, Macys, they were on the downhill slide long before coronavirus showed up.
It boggles the mind how colossi like the above could get run into the ground. Hey, look at how Hostess got screwed up!
Department stores were already starting to lose market shares in the 70s.
I just think it's ironic that Sears has ended up falling to what is really modern day mail order shopping. They forgot what they pioneered.
Montgomery Ward started mail order.
I remember Monkey Ward. And how long ago did Gimbel's go out of business?
I'm guessing early 80s. Or it was taken over and lost its name, like my beloved Marshall Fields.
Enjoy this trip down memory lane: List of defunct retailers
Note the section headed "Department and Discount Stores" is deeply nested, with store origins and eventual amalgamation with surviving entities pretty well documented. Well worth a look.
charlie hebdo Department stores were already starting to lose market shares in the 70s.
Maybe in your part of the country Charlie, but not in mine. I remember the 70's, mall culture and department store culture was still going strong in Northern New Jersey and the Greater New York Area, and was still going strong when we moved to Virginia in 1987. It's still strong now, but I'll be the first to admit it's the exception that doesn't prove the rule.
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