charlie hebdo purely political motivation and likely a projection of their own desire to spin what has been an unmitigated disaster by the current occupant. Heck, he's a laughing stock around the world and by most Americans.
Perhaps, but as with so many things these days, we are forced to choose between the lesser of available evils.
Not first-degree murder, certainly.
Maybe second-degree manslaughter. Maybe. Presumedly the one with the heart condition knew he had a heart condition and chose to fight anyway when he just could have walked away. People do stupid things when they think with their glands and not their brains.
Anyway, were I on a jury concerning this I'd have a hard time convicting on a first-degree murder charge, given the facts as stated above.
Speaking of "road rage," here's Uncle Vinny trying to deal with it.
Warning! If you don't like rough language don't trigger the link! But if you want to have a good laugh or two...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1tjTASpmqA
York1Also: "It is almost impossible to say how many of those 1,125 patients who died at home or in street in the first five days of April had coronavirus - some may have been previously tested before their death and either were never admitted to a hospital or had been sent home."
I suppose there is always a degree of "people will find what they are looking for".
Couple years ago here, there was a road rage incident where the two parties pulled over to the side of the road and exchanged fists. One of them had a heart condition, and soon after died of a heart attack.
I guess the "killer" made an opportunistic traffic maneuver, and the deceased responded with a hand gesture, and tempers flared from there.
Some here were calling for a first degree murder charge, because "the killer willingly parked his car in preparation for the fight"
How would you call it?
I guess some might write it off as "traffic related"?
Overmod Convicted One York1 The motives of some people who have doubts about the total death rate are being questioned. I think that it's also fair to say that there are some who question the motives of the doubters, as well. Personally I question the motives of anyone who skews statistics from what is common-sense accurate, for whatever reason (including expediency). What will come next will be the usual scientific-semantic kerfuffle about 'what the proximate cause of death' in severe COVID-19 ought to be'. Of course the same thing applies to pneumonias 'secondary' to influenza; whether carefully or not, there are seldom stats that differentiate autoimmune runaway from secondary infections. Wanna bet how many of such deaths are classed 'influenza' rather than 'pneumonia' ... or vice versa?
Convicted One York1 The motives of some people who have doubts about the total death rate are being questioned. I think that it's also fair to say that there are some who question the motives of the doubters, as well.
York1 The motives of some people who have doubts about the total death rate are being questioned.
I think that it's also fair to say that there are some who question the motives of the doubters, as well.
Personally I question the motives of anyone who skews statistics from what is common-sense accurate, for whatever reason (including expediency).
What will come next will be the usual scientific-semantic kerfuffle about 'what the proximate cause of death' in severe COVID-19 ought to be'. Of course the same thing applies to pneumonias 'secondary' to influenza; whether carefully or not, there are seldom stats that differentiate autoimmune runaway from secondary infections. Wanna bet how many of such deaths are classed 'influenza' rather than 'pneumonia' ... or vice versa?
This is always the case, as I pointed out with a few of the many examples faced by professionals everyday: a specific chronic disease vs "complications" whether arising from the disease or opportunistic infections.
Doubts about the motives of professionals seems to be a purely political motivation and likely a projection of their own desire to spin what has been an unmitigated disaster by the current occupant. Heck, he's a laughing stock around the world and by most Americans.
York1 Overmod Personally I question the motives of anyone who skews statistics from what is common-sense accurate, for whatever reason (including expediency). What is common sense accuracy? The actual death toll may be much higher or much lower. From the NYT: "We also don't really know how each of the city's dozens of hospitals and medical facilites are counting their dead. For example, if a patient who is presumed to have coronavirus is admitted to the hospital, but dies there before they can be tested, it is unclear how they might factor into the formal death tally." Also: "It is almost impossible to say how many of those 1,125 patients who died at home or in street in the first five days of April had coronavirus - some may have been previously tested before their death and either were never admitted to a hospital or had been sent home." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html
Overmod Personally I question the motives of anyone who skews statistics from what is common-sense accurate, for whatever reason (including expediency).
What is common sense accuracy? The actual death toll may be much higher or much lower.
From the NYT: "We also don't really know how each of the city's dozens of hospitals and medical facilites are counting their dead. For example, if a patient who is presumed to have coronavirus is admitted to the hospital, but dies there before they can be tested, it is unclear how they might factor into the formal death tally."
Also: "It is almost impossible to say how many of those 1,125 patients who died at home or in street in the first five days of April had coronavirus - some may have been previously tested before their death and either were never admitted to a hospital or had been sent home."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-death-count.html
Whoever said 'Dead men tell no tales!'
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
OvermodPersonally I question the motives of anyone who skews statistics from what is common-sense accurate, for whatever reason (including expediency).
York1 John
Answering the question: Israel's Health Ministry considers the death by Cononavirus even if the person had previous medical issues, and nearly all did have previuos serious neducal issues..
York1The motives of some people who have doubts about the total death rate are being questioned.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JRThe reasoning behind including those not tested is that they didn't do autopsies on those bodies, which I presume now to have been cremated, there fore including them in the number errs on the side of caution.
Erring on the side of caution is exactly why there is some question about the total death rate.
The motives of some people who have doubts about the total death rate are being questioned.
I'm editing my statement below. After reading it, I know it was not clear.
It's also proper to question the motives of some people who don't want the death rate questioned.
Convicted One York1 officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it." Your point is a valid one. What those officials are doing, IMO, is highly irresponsible. I was not aware anyone was doing this. I'm wondering if they have a nefarious motive, or are simply so short of test kits that they have been prioritized for the living? Things are a bit different where I live. Here you can't get diagnosed without a test, and you can't get tested without symptoms. So we might have exactly the opposite problem,.... funny world isn't it?
York1 officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it."
Your point is a valid one. What those officials are doing, IMO, is highly irresponsible. I was not aware anyone was doing this.
I'm wondering if they have a nefarious motive, or are simply so short of test kits that they have been prioritized for the living?
Things are a bit different where I live. Here you can't get diagnosed without a test, and you can't get tested without symptoms. So we might have exactly the opposite problem,.... funny world isn't it?
The reasoning behind including those not tested is that they didn't do autopsies on those bodies, which I presume now to have been cremated, there fore including them in the number errs on the side of caution.
In referrence to my previous here is a link to an article which talks about increase in total deaths.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html?campaign_id=168&emc=edit_NN_p_20200429&instance_id=18058&nl=morning-briefing®i_id=96383804§ion=topNews&segment_id=26195&te=1&user_id=d6921cc27f430e320b317de05f250e40
The final total death rate from Covid-19 can be somewhat determined after the fact . Compare the number of deaths from all causes over any defined time period. The longer the time period the more accurate. Example Get a base line to compare December 2019 with 2018, Then start measuring each month of 2020 with each 2019 month. Run culmative totals as well.
A few items that would need to be either entered or eliminated.
1. Auto accident deaths.
2. major natural disasters such as tidal waves.
3. Increase in suicides should be included but foot noted. As well grade cossing incidents suicide or not .
4. Include increase accident deaths at home.
5. Boating deaths
6. Population differences.
7. one number that will be number of at home deaths indicating how many persons did not go to ER due to fear.
Imagine others can think of other items. So if total number of deaths increases by a factor of "X" and if only say 1/4 "X" is from covid-19 then the 3/4 "X" needs noting as related consequences of the virus. Supposed "natural" causes above previous years will be enlightning,
OvermodAnd one of the principal points of being tested at all is to catch it before the symptoms begin to manifest
And if they DID have testing for all, they would then have a DNA profile on everyone, wouldn't they? (**ominous music**)
Deleted
This lady seems to have the answer.
The Governor of Maryland has ordered that ALL residents of nursing homes and assisted care facilities be tested. Good move, but, if tests had been available it should have been done two months ago.
Convicted OneThings are a bit different where I live. Here you can't get diagnosed without a test, and you can't get tested without symptoms. So we might have exactly the opposite problem,.... funny world isn't it?
And one of the principal points of being tested at all is to catch it before the symptoms begin to manifest ... at which point a victim may have been an infectious threat to the general public for over five days, and is likely to have progressed dangerously toward induced ARDS if 'at risk' for that condition.
But hey, it looks like the 80%-or-more-lethal ventilators will be in adequate supply for those who get it. And the test results for the symptomatic will help get the ventilators sent where they are "needed"... that week.
York1officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it."
Convicted OneIs there any hard data to document that Covid related death statistics are being fudged? Or is this mostly speculation by naysayers unhappy that policy is not being bent to their whim?
I'm not talking about anyone fudging the death rate or speculation. I'm talking about how difficult it is to track down an exact death rate.
From the New York Times:
"And New York City increased its death count by more than 3,700 on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-death-rate.html
My point is that it's much more difficult to determine the number of deaths due to this virus or to influenza than to dismiss the argument as the same as falling off a cliff.
Someone having a predisposing, pre-existing condition does not dismiss an acute illness as cause of death. For example, many people have diabetes for years and ultimately die from acutevrenal failure. Ditto with COPD and viral-pneumonia, whether as a comorbidigy with Covid-19 or with seasonal influenza. Or many other combinations of a chronic disease and an acute one. Basic medicine.
York1 Deciding whether a death is caused by the virus is not as easy as some think.
Deciding whether a death is caused by the virus is not as easy as some think.
Exactly!
The implications of the high median age of people reported to have died of COVID-19 suggest that it was a "final push over the edge" for many. OTOH, the first known death in the US from COVID-19 was someone who was otherwise healthy and thus the death would be primarily due to COVID-19 as the person's heart was weakened by the infection.
Note about "final push over the edge": There are a lot of people who are much more susceptible to dying from COVID-19 due to a variety of factors such as age, fighting cancer etc who need more protection from COVID-19.
York1Now, how many died of the flu? Five? Thirty? Did the 30 develop other conditions from the flu that made the heart disease worse?
Is there any hard data to document that Covid related death statistics are being fudged? Or is this mostly speculation by naysayers unhappy that policy is not being bent to their whim?
BaltACDIf someone is pushed off a cliff and subsequently dies - is the cause the push or the sudden stop?
For one month in a hospital there are 50 deaths due to heart disease. None of the patients had influenza.
Another month, there are 55 deaths due to heart disease. However, this month, 30 of those deaths occured to patients who had influenza.
Now, how many died of the flu? Five? Thirty? Did the 30 develop other conditions from the flu that made the heart disease worse?
There is not a simple answer to the question if they died of influenza.
Here is an interesting article about influenza and the deaths that are associated with it.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/influenza-deaths/
Disclaimer: I do not know anything about this group that published the article. I read the backgrounds of the contributers and they seem to have knowledge in the medical field, but with online sources ...
Gramp daveklepper Of the sick, 120 are in serious condition, including 91 on ventilators. Overnight, more people passed away, bringing the country's death toll to 212. Dave, is their indication of what is considered a death by covid? Here, there is questioning, because if someone is infected and dies, it is being tallied as a covid death, no matter whether there's an underlying condition. If someone is in hospice, contracts covid, and then dies, theirs is a covid death, for example.
daveklepper Of the sick, 120 are in serious condition, including 91 on ventilators. Overnight, more people passed away, bringing the country's death toll to 212.
Dave, is their indication of what is considered a death by covid? Here, there is questioning, because if someone is infected and dies, it is being tallied as a covid death, no matter whether there's an underlying condition. If someone is in hospice, contracts covid, and then dies, theirs is a covid death, for example.
If someone is pushed off a cliff and subsequently dies - is the cause the push or the sudden stop? If a horse is carrying 1K pounds and then a additional pound is added and the horse collapses - was it the first pound or last pound that caused the collapse?
Cass county Indiana, after suffering the shut down of the local meat processing facility, has implemented new restrictions.
Shopping excursions in stores are now limited to one family member per visit, and children under 16 are prohibited entirely. This does not seem at all unreasonable to me, especially considering the "cough-o-matic" tyke I encountered at a store recently.
Miningman 54light15-- Peter Lorre is something else isn't he. Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre , throw-in Bogie. Great stuff . " Can I kill him now boss? Please can I kill him now?" Elecroliner1935-- Euclid can be the Defence Attorney in the Forum Film Noir. He can easily wear down the DA, the Judge , the Jury, the Courtroom and the press. When he walks in its game over , but in 72 hours of non stop delivery. Good tactic!
54light15-- Peter Lorre is something else isn't he.
Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre , throw-in Bogie. Great stuff .
" Can I kill him now boss? Please can I kill him now?"
Elecroliner1935-- Euclid can be the Defence Attorney in the Forum Film Noir. He can easily wear down the DA, the Judge , the Jury, the Courtroom and the press. When he walks in its game over , but in 72 hours of non stop delivery. Good tactic!
Film Noir is never boring, and often has some form of humor. I think that rules out Bucky.
54light15 Miningman " Can I kill him now boss? Please can I kill him now?" "Arsenic and Old Lace," right?
Miningman " Can I kill him now boss? Please can I kill him now?"
"Arsenic and Old Lace," right?
I think that quote is from the Jerry Lewis movie, "The Sad Sack", with Peter Lorre. Don't quote me on that!
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