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Bright line information

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, February 21, 2020 6:40 PM

Not sure where the wacky paranoia about airlines comes from ... or some of the cracked-up numbers in the quoted story.  County Attorney Reingold thinks the whole appeal cost (assuming the Court grants cert here) is something like $400K ... and there's more than that left 'in an account dedicated to the legal battle' (which is over whether the tax-exemption of $1.75 billion in private activity bonds associated with the Brightline project is legal)

Now, if you want potentially-justifiable paranoia, consider the idea that the Indian River County people are anticipating a conservative 'turn' on the Court (see the stories about Ruth Bader Ginzburg's health lately) which will somehow tilt the decision in their favor.  Not having read the controversy (or either the DC Circuit's decision or the appeal brief, I'm not even going to comment.

I think it's far more likely that any 'private money' would be associated with the relatively high-profile status of All Those People Dead From Brightline.  (Up to 40 the last time I looked, which would be concerning even for New Jersey Transit!)  See this lovely piece of journalism, for instance.  (There is a better editorial on the RT&S site here.)

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, February 21, 2020 7:17 PM

"Lovely piece of journalism" indeed.  Sob-sisterism at it's best.

I hate to sound cruel and heartless, but it's been said countless times on this Forum before.  You can't save some people from themselves.  You can try, but as the saying goes "You can't put in what God left out," especially common sense.  Suicides?  You can and should advertise and post places where those who need help can get help, but if someone thinks he or she would be better off out of this world than in it, and won't look for help, then they'll accomplish the deed one way or another.  If they can't walk in front of a train than they might just walk in front of your car.  Would it be fair to call you a killer if that happened? 

Trains don't "kill" anyone.  Trains are mindless pieces of machinery with no sense of right or wrong or justice or fairness.  Those who put themselves in the path of the train are the ones to blame, like it or not.

You know, there's times when I think the German work for suicide is closer to the mark than the English one.  In German it's selbstmord, literally self-murder.  "Suicide" sounds too euphemistic, too "clean."

OK, I'm off the soapbox.  Someone else can jump on. 

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, February 22, 2020 8:12 AM

In the story about deaths (linked inside the linked story) there are references to "dynamic envelopes." What the heck does that mean?

IMO, that writer is trying way to hard to be clever. The first paragraph is ridiculous, whatever the heck it is he's trying to say.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, February 22, 2020 8:50 AM

Suicide comes from the Latin,  suicidium which means the act of killing one's self, pretty much the same as the German term. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, February 22, 2020 10:30 AM

I fail to see what either of you find so disconcerting about the story.  A lot of statistics that analyze the death toll. 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, February 22, 2020 9:14 PM

Lithonia Operator
In the story about deaths (linked inside the linked story) there are references to "dynamic envelopes."

I understood this as a fancy jargon way of expressing where the 'safe clearance' for approaching the train is indicated, like the yellow line on platforms.  Think of it as showing the closest you can come without encountering the 'dynamic' effects of the train, including slipstream or anything it might have loose or dragging.

The principal problem with All The Brightline Deaths is that they play into the hands of the considerable number of people who didn't and don't want fast trains on unseparated ROWs, or who think any 'train hitting person' accident is a railroad-induced calamity that shows capitalist hard-heartedness at its worst.  I'm concerned that it's getting worse, rather than better, and there is little effective that can be done to preclude that.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 5:33 PM

Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property ?

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 5:57 PM

The US needs grade separation and secured ROWs for mainlines as part of moving into the second half of the 20th century. 

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Posted by n012944 on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:08 PM

blue streak 1

Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property ?

 

 

First Bob Iger wasn't fired.  Second, I doubt it would affect things at all.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 10:59 AM

n012944
 
blue streak 1

Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property?

First Bob Iger wasn't fired.  Second, I doubt it would affect things at all.

Why do we get these conspiracy theories over and over?

Iger wasn't 'fired' - he's becoming executive Chairman, something I doubt would happen from any sort of forced retirement.  The guy replacing him, Chapek, was head of the parks division, and presumably knows full well what the arrangements with Brightline have been ... and are expected to be.  

It falls on the guy starting this to explain why he thinks anything regarding 'station plans' will change, and what he thinks they would be.  But I expect him to back it up with better actual facts.

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Posted by divebardave on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:26 PM

If this was a public works project with politicaly connected bidders who are know the system of favors the tune would be diffrent.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 10:58 PM

That guy never gives answers or explanations,  just makes unfounded statements posing as questions. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, February 27, 2020 8:51 AM

n012944

 

 
blue streak 1

Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property ?

 

 

 

 

First Bob Iger wasn't fired.  Second, I doubt it would affect things at all.

 

These impressions come from reading only the headline, sometimes poorly written, to a news story without reading the whole article.  I make it a point to read the whole article when I see a headline, typically to an on-line news story, that has me saying "WHAAAAAT?" the moment I read it.  

Whether it's deliberate or just sloppy journalism I'll leave others to judge, but there's sure a whole lot of it going on.  

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:04 AM

Okay,  what headline or story on this thread said Bob Iger was fired?  I failed to see it in any of the linked articles.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:27 AM

I can't speak for "blue streak," but several days ago I saw a "pop-up" headline from an on-line news service that said, if I remember correctly, "Bob Iger Out As Disney CEO," or some such. Now if one just read the headline and nothing else it does give the impression Mr. Iger was out on his butt, which is hardly the case.  

I didn't bother to read the story myself because I just didn't care.  I'm not connected with Disney in any way. 

Bob Iger's status at Disney wasn't mentioned on this thread until "blue streak" brought it up. 

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Posted by divebardave on Thursday, February 27, 2020 11:28 AM

At every level of a major public works project like building a subway or a sewer system,,There are layers of project builders,engineering firm,planning firms,acountants and unions that a savvy politician could hit and has every right to shake down for political contributions and favors. The problem with Brightline is that they did not ask for or needed the permisiom of the local politicos to exist. S Florida is basicaly New York Politics Tammery Hall South. Had the project been funded and planned with public dollers it would have take 15 years min to have the first shovel of dirt and have gone into hundreds of millions of cost overuns and when complete would have had to bee shut down for months do to some planned engineering failure see the Big Dighttps://www.amazon.com/Big-Dig-Reshaping-American-City/dp/0316605980/ref=pd_sbs_14_img_0/142-7426524-3612967?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0316605980&pd_rd_r=9072fddd-8fa2-4c48-9617-b27e78aebdee&pd_rd_w=A7TQS&pd_rd_wg=Swe7K&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=71M91CSRA0JDA1X5BJ3Y&psc=1&refRID=71M91CSRA0JDA1X5BJ3Y

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, February 27, 2020 1:04 PM

Not always but a quick resignation usually is because asked to resign immediately.  Without any underlying reason does appear unusual ?  Could be no reason is because of some clause in employment contract. 

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:51 PM

blue streak 1

Not always but a quick resignation usually is because asked to resign immediately.  Without any underlying reason does appear unusual ?  Could be no reason is because of some clause in employment contract. 

 

 

People that are fired don't stick around as the Executive Chairman.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/25/disney-bob-iger-explains-why-hes-staying-at-disney.html

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:52 PM

And some on here complain about news organizations!!  On here we get the worst sort of speculation and innuendo without substance to back it up, all hiding behind his usual question marks. 

Here's the story on Bob Iger.  It is not very long.  

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2020-02-25/disney-ceo-bob-iger-bob-chapek

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, February 27, 2020 3:26 PM

The Nimbys are still trying to derail Brightline. Now they are getting the Florida transportation commission to investigate..  Investigate what ?  Just more waste of taxpayers money.  Maybe some of that taxpayer money needs to find some black  pockets ? 

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/2020/02/24/virgin-trains-discussed-florida-transportation-commission-rail-safety/4855518002/ 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, February 27, 2020 7:41 PM

blue streak 1

The Nimbys are still trying to derail Brightline. Now they are getting the Florida transportation commission to investigate..  Investigate what ?  Just more waste of taxpayers money.  Maybe some of that taxpayer money needs to find some black  pockets ? 

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/2020/02/24/virgin-trains-discussed-florida-transportation-commission-rail-safety/4855518002/ 

 

And just what do you mean by your last sentence, where a statement is hiding behind a question mark? 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, February 27, 2020 8:22 PM

Looks like with Bob Iger's lateral move at Disney things are going to hell in a handbasket already.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/jungle-cruise-boat-sinks-disney-magic-kingdom  

Maybe he should move back?  Wink

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, February 28, 2020 2:50 PM

I going to assume he meant back pockets ....

Here is a opinion piece photos and stories of people getting upset about chainsaws.

Annoyed Virgin Trains tore up trees, vegetation along rail line? Just wait

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/opinion/columnists/gil-smart/2020/02/26/virgin-trains-expansion-kicks-into-high-gear-get-ready-disruptions/4862443002/

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, February 28, 2020 7:41 PM

Comments redacted to prevent more political meddling.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:30 AM

Overmod
Iger wasn't 'fired' - he's becoming executive Chairman, something I doubt would happen from any sort of forced retirement.  

At many large companies your prohibited via company policy from holding both the position of CEO and Chairman of the Board of Directors which makes it necessary to resign from one to serve in the other.    This is done because at those same companies the Board sets the CEO's compensation and supervises his job performance.    At companies where the CEO is combined with Chairman I am not sure how those duties work out but stockholders generally do not like a combined CEO and Chairman of the Board position as they view it as eliminating a fundamental check and balance in good Corporate governance.    Not an expert in the area by any means just mentioning it as probably also the reason the resignation took place if the guy assumed the role of Chairman of the Board.

Would be interesting to go over the railroads in the United States and see which ones had a combined CEO / Chairperson position (if any) and which had those positions seperate and independent.    Just as an exercise in curiousity.

I have also seen it but rarely where CEO and Chairperson were seperate but the two were close personal friends and somewhat "chummy".    Which kind of fails the part where they should be independent of one another.

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Posted by PJS1 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 9:32 PM
I rode the Brightline from Miami to West Palm Beach and back on Monday.  It was great.
 
The stations, equipment, and personnel are unlike any railroad service that I have had.  It was a positive experience from the get go.
 
 
I had a Select class seat.  The on-board service was superb.  The car attendants, who were dressed in blazers and gray slacks looked neat.  Most importantly, however, they offered first class service.  It was obvious that they have been trained well.  They take pride in their work.  
 
The trains departed and arrived on time to the minute. 
 
The Brightline model would be a practicable alternative to driving in the I-35 corridor between DFW and San Antonio.  It could be implemented along existing railway rights-of-way without the need to take much if any property. 

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Posted by alphas on Friday, March 6, 2020 10:56 PM

People keep talking about the DFW to San Antonio corridor and existing RR rights-of-way.     But I remember reading that Amtrak's bigest problem operating over it was the directional freight running on the 2 lines between these end points that caused much of the delays.   It sounds to me like it would still be a very major expense for something like Brightline to operate between the 2 end points due to this directional freight set-up.

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Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, March 7, 2020 8:53 AM

alphas
 People keep talking about the DFW to San Antonio corridor and existing RR rights-of-way.     But I remember reading that Amtrak's bigest problem operating over it was the directional freight running on the 2 lines between these end points that caused much of the delays.   It sounds to me like it would still be a very major expense for something like Brightline to operate between the 2 end points due to this directional freight set-up. 

The corridor would have to be upgraded.  The best option would be to double track the former MKT line, which passes through Waco, a city of more than 135,000 people, for most of the route.  It would be costly, but it probably would cost less than building a new railroad from scratch.

The I-35 corridor, especially between Georgetown and San Antonio, is one of the most congested in the U.S.  So, where are we improving passenger rail in Texas?  Between Dallas and Houston, which is an ideal air corridor.  Why?  Because it is suitable for the Japanese to export their high speed rail technology to North America.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 7, 2020 10:51 AM

In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set.  Pathetic!

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 7, 2020 11:12 AM

Not true. They've been very busy exploring every single planet in the Solar System, including New Horizons to Pluto and the Kyper Belt and also including landing a probe on Titan, one of Saturn's moons. 

Imagine having pictures sent back on approach and from landing on an ice moon of Saturn, 8x the distance from our own sun, call it a billion miles. 

The salty sulphide laden seawater geysers they bravely passed through from orbit, collecting samples,  on Enceladus alone has changed science. 

Just getting into an orbit around Mercury with Messenger was a remarkable accomplishment. That's not easy. Took 7 years with precision timing every step of the way. 

The sheer volume of data they have collected from all of this has expanded our knowledge of all science and our origins with many surprises along the way. 

Just because the media does not hype up and go ga ga over acquiring exceptional and ground breaking knowledge certainly does not mean they have a poor mindset. 

https://i.imgur.com/KRSN7at.mp4

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 7, 2020 6:14 PM

Of course, NASA doesn't have the problem of having to deal with NIMBY's or BANANA's in space.  At least not yet.

Hey, sounds like a great idea for a sci-fi film, "NIMBY's In Space!"

I wonder what J.J. Abrams could do with it?

 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:46 AM

Well they were their own NIMBYs -- they were going to crash Cassini on Enceladus as it's last mission flyby but once they found salt water geysers, and lots of them, they did not want to chance there could be life there and contaminate the whole place with microbes from Earth (Earth cooties) so they burned it up in the atmosphere of Saturn ... and it sent back 30 years worth of data to interpret as it did until the signal stopped transmitting... imagine that! They didn't expect that either. 

Enceladus is very close to Saturns rings and that is one of the reasons they reflect so brightly.. those geysers shoot into space and the saltwater/ice falls on them replenishing their shiny surface with a fresh shine. Nobody knew that, not even in a wild crazy guess. 

If it wasn't for steam locomotives and trying to figure out how to make them better we would never even have come up with the Laws of Thermodynamics when we did. 

Scientific discoveries really can bend your mind into facing truths and the simple beauty of the cosmos. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 8, 2020 8:01 AM

Miningman
Scientific discoveries really can bend your mind into facing truths and the simple beauty of the cosmos. 

After decades of science fiction stories and novels, true science reveals the that same chemistry and physics that exist on Earth - exist everywhere else in the Universe.  

Unless and until Man creates a transportation method that can take human beings at faster than light speed - we will forever be restricted to personally exploring planets in our own Solar system.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, March 8, 2020 9:13 AM

Miningman
Not true.

I call crock.

Where is the large-scale manufacturing and vehicle-assembly capability in the higher range of LEO, outside the trace atmosphere but inside the radiation belts? the nickel-iron asteroid mining? the single-crystal manufacturing by the kiloton?  Where are the powersats?  Where are the space habs?  Where is colonization at L5 or other Lagrange points in various systems?  Where are the lunar colonies?

A few shoestring-financed slingshot-orbited probes, wonderful though their results be, only amount to a fractional percent of 'what could have been'.

(Although I've said before, and I'll say again, it is a VERY good thing we got no functional Almaz ... and that was more on the way to being built than any of the things I mentioned.)

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:57 AM

You been reading Popular Mechanics from the 50's again? 

Also I suggest cutting down on your Star Trek viewing. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 11:30 AM

Yeah, "Star Trek's" been all downhill after "Voyager" anyway.  

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 11:48 AM

BaltACD
 In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set.  Pathetic! 

Presumably you wrote your message on a PC that was developed in the United States and uses software put together by Microsoft, Apple, etc.  Just one small example of the USA no can do mind set.

Here is another example: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRKm6PG918 

For someone that holds every license issued by the FAA, this is poetry in motion.  Don't know how it came together in the U.S.?  Maybe the Russians put it together at night when no one was looking.  

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Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:23 PM

Wow, a land development scheme in south Florida turns to questionable tactics. Who would have ever seen this coming?  Dead

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, March 8, 2020 3:52 PM

PJS1
Just one small example of the USA no can do mind set.

I think he was referring more to orbital and space travel than to incompetence in tech...

Here is another example ... For someone that holds every license issued by the FAA, this is poetry in motion.  Maybe the Russians put it together at night when no one was looking.

The better comparison with what Balt was saying is where development of the 2707 line would have been at a similar number of years of evolution.  Let alone VentureStar or the wide variety of technologies for semiballistic flight.  (Or the things Avro Canada might have developed -- but that's another story, best told by real and not honorary Canadians).  How long have you had your Mach rating?   Your Mach 25 patch?  Those might have been almost commonplace by now.

Of course the debt to the Russians does need to be recognized -- both as a competitor in space and as an excuse to spend trillions in the aggregate on rocket science and hardware.  Who in America would have privately financed a push to space without government support of the whole slew of enabling technologies ... through several generations of process, many of which became essentially worthless when superseded?  We have a long and checkered history of can-don't until pushed or threatened beyond complacency, including so many of our corporations that were worldwide household names years ago but now gone (or swallowed or replaced by foreigners with more can-do where their mouth is).

  

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 8, 2020 4:12 PM

I'm always willing with open mindset to see the flip side but sometimes there is a third dimension to things , in fact most times.

As Kathy Shadlie wrote " My hostility to NASA and all its works and pomps is longstanding and unshakable. The space program was a shameful waste of extorted tax dollars, all to fly to a rock in the sky that doesn't even have any cool animals.

Defenders retort that the space program has spun off a host of indispensable inventions, but such wonders, if truly crucial, would have been developed anyhow — perhaps even faster, and more cheaply, had the government left trillions in stolen cash in the hands of private enterprise.

In fact, a fictional "space program" has arguably inspired as many innovations as the real one, and as its sets — dressed with papier mâché boulders and (probably) Christmas lights behind cardboard — can attest, was far more cost-efficient."

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, March 8, 2020 4:39 PM

Without war,  no Manhattan Project (I'm disregarding the controversy) and no nuclear energy perhaps and a lot of side developments. 

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 5:09 PM

"In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set.  Pathetic!"  

Ignoring the context for a moment, it is a broad brush indictment. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 8, 2020 7:57 PM

PJS1
"In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set.  Pathetic!"  

Ignoring the context for a moment, it is a broad brush indictment. 

Go big or go home.

Remember at the time Kennedy made his by the end of the decade speech - the USA was trailing the USSR in space accomplishments.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 8:15 PM

 

 

[/quote]

PJS1

 

 
BaltACD
 In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set.  Pathetic! 

 

Presumably you wrote your message on a PC that was developed in the United States and uses software put together by Microsoft, Apple, etc.  Just one small example of the USA no can do mind set.

Here is another example: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRKm6PG918 

For someone that holds every license issued by the FAA, this is poetry in motion.  Don't know how it came together in the U.S.?  Maybe the Russians put it together at night when no one was looking.  

 

"Poetry in motion"  all right!  "If it looks good, it'll fly good!"

But it'll never hold a place in my heart like these birds do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXZYpGVaoQ  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 8:27 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXZYpGVaoQ  

You have no idea how that tugs at the heart of this old mainly jet jockey.  anther one is an over fly of 3 B-36s

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 9:08 PM

I know blue streak, wasn't that something?  Wasn't that freaking something?

The aerial heroes, the aces, of World War One are remembered, but you know what, in my opinion ALL those early aviators were heroes.  

Not too long ago I watched a video of a retired Air Force colonel, a fighter jock, who said "Once you've flown fighters nothing else compares!  But now I'm retired, and buying an F-15 is out of the question."

You know what he did?  He built a replica Nieuport 28 WW1 fighter!

"It's not an F-15, but it fills the bill!"  

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:40 PM

Flintlock76
"Poetry in motion"  all right!  "If it looks good, it'll fly good!"

But it'll never hold a place in my heart like these birds do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXZYpGVaoQ  

WW I planes are great.  21st Century video and how their shutters work when taking video of propeller driven aircraft suck - depending upon propeller speeds the the video makes the prop look like it is moving in one direction and then an instant later it is moving in the opposite direction.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 11:00 PM

Balt:  You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24.  The wagon wheels look like they  are going backwards.  We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 9, 2020 7:24 AM

blue streak 1
Balt:  You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24.  The wagon wheels look like they  are going backwards.  We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward.

What is even more disturbing are those video cameras that make propellers look like they are bent at a right angle under certain circumstances.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 9, 2020 2:30 PM

blue streak 1

Balt:  You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24.  The wagon wheels look like they  are going backwards.  We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward.

 

That wagon wheels rolling backward phenomenon was noticed by Hollywood decades ago.  They figured out a fix but it just wasn't cost-effective, so they let it go figuring audiences would ignore it anyway.  They were right.

And I've noticed that weird propeller spin phenomenon of various videos as well.  Since I know what's causing it I just ignore it. 

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Posted by divebardave on Monday, March 9, 2020 6:06 PM

and Kung Fu movies there lips keep moving after they stop talking and David Carridine is not Asian

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 9, 2020 9:12 PM

Flintlock76
 
blue streak 1

Balt:  You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24.  The wagon wheels look like they  are going backwards.  We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward. 

That wagon wheels rolling backward phenomenon was noticed by Hollywood decades ago.  They figured out a fix but it just wasn't cost-effective, so they let it go figuring audiences would ignore it anyway.  They were right.

And I've noticed that weird propeller spin phenomenon of various videos as well.  Since I know what's causing it I just ignore it. 

I get the backward rotation on the videos my Garmin VIRB Elite makes on my racing.  

The eyes and their pathway's to the brain and how the brain handles rotary motion can created the backward 'vision' even without film or video being involved.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 9, 2020 9:42 PM

I'm glad you gents enjoyed that WW1 fly-past video I posted, but in the interest of equal time...

If that video was a good example of a German two-seater crew's nightmare, how about a British two-seater crew's nightmare?  Maybe this one's scarier?  Especially considering who it is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iJpzsbsD2M 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 9, 2020 9:55 PM

Flintlock:  another great video.  Do all our posters realize how hard that take off in formation is ?  Just one burp of any aircraft's engine and things would get dicey quickly.  Those engines are probably much less reliable than todays recips.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 9, 2020 10:17 PM

Blue streak, the late Cole Palen, the creator of the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome said the old engines were actually pretty good as long as you took care of them.  

Engine issues during the First World War were usually due to poor fuel, (the unleaded gas of those days caused carbon build-up on the spark plugs, cars had the same problem too)  poor lubricants, and iffy maintanance when parts didn't come through.

Same with the machine guns.  There was nothing wrong with the designs, but problems typically were due to poor ammunition or poor quality control during manufacture.  

And I concur, the pilots flying those triplanes know their stuff!  Great formation takeoff, expertly done!  

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, March 9, 2020 10:26 PM

Flintlock76
That wagon wheels rolling backward phenomenon was noticed by Hollywood decades ago.  They figured out a fix but it just wasn't cost-effective, so they let it go figuring audiences would ignore it anyway.  They were right.

It occurs to me that I don't ever remember seeing steam engine driver spokes moving backwards on film.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:02 AM

The illusion is caused by the spacing and rotational speed of the spokes relative to the timing of film exposure from cel to cel.  Steam locomotive spokes are spaced differently and probably turn at a different rotational speed.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, August 7, 2020 9:51 PM

Something not entirely unexpected.  Virgin Atlantic declared Bankruptcy.  Bloomberg ( paywalled ) reports that Brightline has terminated its relationship with Virgin.  Virgin denies.

Brightline says it will go back to being called Brightline.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 7, 2020 11:37 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The illusion is caused by the spacing and rotational speed of the spokes relative to the timing of film exposure from cel to cel.  Steam locomotive spokes are spaced differently and probably turn at a different rotational speed.

Watch a propeller aircraft engine after it has been started and try to visually figure out if the prop is moving clockwise or counter clockwise.

Human vision has a latency in the frame rate that the brain can handle.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 8, 2020 4:49 AM

BaltACD
Human vision has a latency in the frame rate that the brain can handle.

This is almost completely different from the 'backward wheel' artifact.  You'd far better ask yourself the more basic question 'why does seeing backward-turning wheels at speed annoy me?'

As I recall from psychophysics, image-formation latency in people is about 19ms.  Substantial image change faster than that results in a blur, or due to human 'image processing' the disappearance of the thing changing faster -- hence the reason you can see the brake detail behind fast-turning car wheel spokes.  

Film on the other hand is shot not only at a fixed frame rate but with a shutter speed fast enough to eliminate more unpleasant motion blur as well as give varied depth of field and a couple of other effects.  Movies are a trick, a way of fooling the human perceptive system into thinking it is seeing smooth motion, but the actual information coded into the individual frames is massively reduced, and one very significant consequence is that phase information is lost.  The actual thing captured on the film at 'wheels backward' speed is like stroboscopic vision with the pulse rate slightly slower than the advance between identical spokes -- this being indistinguishable from the same wheel turned slightly backward at much lower speed at the same lighting repetition rate.

Far more 'fun' and annoying are some of the visual effects from CCD cameras, which can have really fast effective 'shutter speed' but long image-processing time and hence low effective frame rate separate from nominal resolution.  Propellers shot with these have all sorts of weird distortions in addition to what can be wildly varying perception of rotational direction.

Meanwhile there is a perceptual 'quirk' that recognition of a processed image in the brain can 'freeze' certain images; the original determination of that 19ms. acquisition was done stroboscopically to see how long an item needed to be illuminated for a subject to 'remember' details of it... the conscious memory taking much longer to form.  When I first joined SMPTE I had the bright idea that a vastly enhanced perception of dizzying speed might be produced by combining the two effects of blur and periodic capture, by shooting most frames with corresponding average blur but interposing periodic frames with high stop-motion resolution, a bit like the research into recognizable subliminals.  This worked remarkably well... at recreating precisely the confusion in image recognition that makes people disoriented and sick watching roller coasters and the like without vestibular coupling.  It certainly worked to enhance the thrill of speed ... the thrill of helpless speed where you have no idea where you'll be pulled next.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, August 10, 2020 10:00 AM

Wow! Brightline ends agreement with Virgin Trains.    That was kind of sudden.   I guess they got sick of waiting for the capital pay in from Virigin.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2020/08/08-digest-brightline-ends-marketing-agreement-with-virgin-group

 

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, November 30, 2020 11:54 AM

Spent the holiday with some windshield time in Central Florida.  Drove from Orlando to Cocoa along FL-528. Grading and bridge construction was in process along the whole route. 

There is a large stockpile of concrete ties at the intersection of 528 and Industry Road.

It is visible in the Google satellite view.

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 10:10 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:27 PM

Brightline is going to build a tunnel under state route 528 by using a box jacking method.  They expect it will only take 10 days.  Does anyone know exactly how the method works ?  In a way it sounds line the way casings are jacked under RRs and roads but on a very big steriod ?.  The number of workers seem to indicate that workers will be working at the face ? 

Brightline set to make history with box-jacking method - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)

EDIT: Here is a link

Jacked Structures - Box Jacking

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:49 PM

blue streak 1
Brightline is going to build a tunnel under state route 528 by using a box jacking method.  They expect it will only take 10 days.  Does anyone know exactly how the method works ?  In a way it sounds line the way casings are jacked under RRs and roads but on a very big steriod ?.  The number of workers seem to indicate that workers will be working at the face ? 

Brightline set to make history with box-jacking method - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)

EDIT: Here is a link

Jacked Structures - Box Jacking

Considering the typical Central Florida elevations (or lack thereof) - who is going over and who is going under.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 11:01 PM

Bright line is going under 528

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, March 11, 2021 5:34 AM
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 11, 2021 6:57 AM

blue streak 1
Bright line is going under 528

Which then begs the question - how much of a dip in the line of the right of way will their be and over how long of a distance?  Will the clearance plate only clear Brightline or will it be built to current Class 1 unrestricted clearance plates?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 11, 2021 9:55 AM

The clearance diagram may not be the biggest issue.  Considering that most of Florida is about 10 feet or less above sea level, drainage may be a bigger problem.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:37 AM

BaltACD
Which then begs the question - how much of a dip in the line of the right of way will their be and over how long of a distance?

Box jacking is inherently horizontal, although it could be started in a 'hole' or angled to a gradient.   That they are using box jacking in the first place and expect to be finished in 10 days implies that 528 at this point is on a berm of adequate height.  Obviously if the new line were to go 'over' there would be no need to 'tunnel'; they'd just build up embankments over time and just bridge the road at the end.  Looking at the aerial view you can see what a pain the necessary construction for a high-speed 'flyover' would entail...

Will the clearance plate only clear Brightline or will it be built to current Class 1 unrestricted clearance plates?

I can't imagine why freight would be operated on a HSR extension of this kind; if it were, the logical thing would be to regrade the approaches on 528 and install an actual overbridge at the crossing, not a particularly difficult piece of civil engineering even for MC's 'Highway bubbas'.  That they are essentially directional-drilling on a large rectangular scale implies to me that minimal clearance gage is in play...

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, March 11, 2021 7:42 PM

Overmod
That they are essentially directional-drilling on a large rectangular scale implies to me that minimal clearance gage is in play...

The linked article says "The underpass, once constructed, will measure 31 ft high by 43 ft wide, will be the length of a football field and will accommodate two trains side by side."

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:00 PM

MidlandMike
 
Overmod
That they are essentially directional-drilling on a large rectangular scale implies to me that minimal clearance gage is in play... 

The linked article says "The underpass, once constructed, will measure 31 ft high by 43 ft wide, will be the length of a football field and will accommodate two trains side by side."

At 31 feet high it is being constructed to the current clearance plate which, I believe, requires 25 feet from top of rail to the bottom of whatever is over top of the rail.

I am wondering how far below Route 528 the jacked in structure will be?  I am GUESSING 10 or more feet below Route 528 so the bottom of the jacked in structure will be 41 feet or more below the grade of Route 528.  Wonder how far out the grade to the bottom of the structure will be extended from the structure?  With a 1% grade we are talking about 4100 feet in each direction.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:29 PM

If I remember correctly we discussed the Goldenrod Road crossing a while back -- but I don't remember box-jacking being mentioned or discussed.  Same for the LIRR improvement project, where I remember seeing only bridge-raising projects.

I'd be interested to see the drainage plans for the completed structure.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, March 12, 2021 9:35 PM

The linked article says the box-jacked tunnel will be built under Route 528 just west if US 1.  Looking at Google Earth, this is where the expressway is already on a fill leading to a bridge that crosses over the FEC mainline and US 1.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:36 AM
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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, May 23, 2021 5:27 PM

MidlandMike

The linked article says the box-jacked tunnel will be built under Route 528 just west if US 1.  Looking at Google Earth, this is where the expressway is already on a fill leading to a bridge that crosses over the FEC mainline and US 1.

Video mark 3:34 elapsed time video of BOX JACKING.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS97kwoDSHg

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, May 23, 2021 9:53 PM

CMStPnP

 

 
MidlandMike

The linked article says the box-jacked tunnel will be built under Route 528 just west if US 1.  Looking at Google Earth, this is where the expressway is already on a fill leading to a bridge that crosses over the FEC mainline and US 1.

 

Video mark 3:34 elapsed time video of BOX JACKING.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS97kwoDSHg

 

 

The shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, May 24, 2021 5:00 AM

MidlandMike
The shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline.

Even more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run.    Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route.    I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, May 24, 2021 7:08 AM

CMStPnP
 
MidlandMike
The shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline. 

Even more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run.    Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route.    I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.

Florida Corrupt?  Who knew!

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Posted by York1 on Monday, May 24, 2021 7:42 AM

CMStPnP
Even more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run.    Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route.    I see that as corruption of our Democratic system,

 

It's possible this representative sided with property owners because he believed that it is wrong to take private property.  I do.

A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system.  That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.

York1 John       

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, May 24, 2021 8:46 AM

BaltACD
Florida Corrupt?

That's just Jacksonian democracy in action.

No local voters enjoy having a railroad as a neighbor, particularly a fast one.  Should it be surprising that local representatives follow that line?

Likewise, if there is free money to be   extortedobtained at the negotiating table, when the Highway authority holds the high cards... can you honestly blame them for try

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, May 24, 2021 8:51 AM

BaltACD
Florida Corrupt?

That's just Jacksonian democracy in action.

No local voters enjoy having a railroad as a neighbor, particularly a fast one.  Should it be surprising that local representatives follow that line?

Likewise, if there is free money to be   extortedobtained at the negotiating table, when the Highway authority holds the high cards... can you honestly blame them for trying to get their cake and eat it too?

Of course businessmen and capitalists are made of money, and Fortress especially so.  Make them pay, and defend your constituents -- who largely don't benefit directly from either rail or its associated development -- from the heartless pursuit of selfish gain!  Then soak 'em again with business taxes...

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, May 24, 2021 11:17 AM

York1
It's possible this representative sided with property owners because he believed that it is wrong to take private property.  I do. A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system.  That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.

Actually No, it was a group led by former CEO of American Airlines, Robert Crandall whom was against FEC running the trains over existing rails because of increased traffic and the feeling that the "local riff-raff" from downtown Miami (yes, that is a form of racism), would now have increased access to their communities and allegedly increase the crime rate and lower property values.    That was their main argument added with the argument the system would never be profitable and Florida would be forced to step in and subsidize it or left with a half constructed system.    I think if you check, Brightline hasn't used any or much of any eminent domain to keep costs low.    It's new line runs primarily on state owned land easements.

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Posted by York1 on Monday, May 24, 2021 12:01 PM

CMStPnP

Actually No, it was a group led by former CEO of American Airlines, Robert Crandall whom was against FEC running the trains over existing rails because of increased traffic and the feeling that the "local riff-raff" from downtown Miami (yes, that is a form of racism), would now have increased access to their communities and allegedly increase the crime rate and lower property values.    That was their main argument added with the argument the system would never be profitable and Florida would be forced to step in and subsidize it or left with a half constructed system.    I think if you check, Brightline hasn't used any or much of any eminent domain to keep costs low.    It's new line runs primarily on state owned land easements.

 

 
 
I'm talking about the Brightline path from MCO to Disney Springs.  Brightline wants to use 417's ROW, which would diminish tolls, use eminent domain on several properties, and bypass other Orange County sites to deliver passengers directly to Disney.
 
While I don't blame Brightline for wanting that route, I will always side with property owners.
 
If I owned property along or near the route, I would be talking to my congressman everyday wondering why I may lose my land or diminish my property's value so that Disney, and Brightline's millionaire investors, will benefit.
 
A congressman representing the people in his district is the epitome of a democratic republic.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, May 24, 2021 2:02 PM

York1
I'm talking about the Brightline path from MCO to Disney Springs.  Brightline wants to use 417's ROW, which would diminish tolls, use eminent domain on several properties, and bypass other Orange County sites to deliver passengers directly to Disney.   While I don't blame Brightline for wanting that route, I will always side with property owners.   If I owned property along or near the route, I would be talking to my congressman everyday wondering why I may lose my land or diminish my property's value so that Disney, and Brightline's millionaire investors, will benefit.   A congressman representing the people in his district is the epitome of a democratic republic.

I am not sure if you had any real estate law courses or not.    However, that is part of the price of living in a Democracy.    The government can allow your property to be taken with just compensation given to you for the land......if they can argue the good of the many far outweighs the retention of the land by the one or the few.   Congress wrote that specific law of emminent domain as well.   Since most land in this country, especially around railroad lines was Federal to begin with.   Arguing the property rights argument over eminent domain is not a strong argument since yourself, your ancestors, or the chain of people before you... obtained the land from the railway or the Feds to begin with.

Diminished tolls are a red herring argument.   Which I would like to see presented in a court room because the fact is also because of the rail line being built it can be shown it is significantly diminishing auto emissions as well which results in avoidance of EPA fines and EPA remediation.    Even under electric automotive power you still have an emissions reduction or carbon footprint reduction.   If I am not mistaken some of the tolls or road taxes in the very same area go to pay for SunRail?    So it is also a circular argument to argue that Brightline's impact on tolls is impacting Florida negatively.

In the specific case you mention.     Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline.     It's like a $1.4 Billion difference.    Not small potatoes and Brightline could use the same argument as your using.     It's being railroaded into accepting a higher cost right of way for the benefit of a few wealthy Corporations.

Interesting note:   Fortress Investments owns Rail America as well.

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Posted by n012944 on Monday, May 24, 2021 2:07 PM

CMStPnP

 In the specific case you mention.     Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline.  

 

Why should they?  Typical foamer board.  If someone builds a house next to the tracks, then complains about the noise, they are told the tracks were there first.  When a railroad is trying to build tracks through a communtiy, (Hunters Creek in this case) the community members who object are labeled NIMBYS, and in this weird case, are told they should pick up the cost for another route.  

 

 

Hypocritical.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, May 24, 2021 2:11 PM

n012944
Why should they?  Typical foamer board.  If someone builds a house next to the tracks, then complains about the noise, they are told the tracks were there first.  When a railroad is trying to build tracks through a communtiy, (Hunters Creek in this case) the community members who object are labeled NIMBYS, and in this weird case, are told they should pick up the cost for another route.       Hypocritical.

No I think it is a consistent argument.    You have a small group of people insisting that the eminent domain or negative economic impact of taking the land for the railroad ROW should be higher because they do not want to be impacted.   It is again a good of the many vs the few argument.    That and of course imposing two doglegs into the route of the line will slow speeds and impact service over the whole line.    I don't think the argument will prevail in a court room.  We'll see if it gets that far or Brightline caves in.

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Posted by York1 on Monday, May 24, 2021 2:39 PM

CMStPnP
Arguing the property rights argument over eminent domain is not a strong argument since yourself, your ancestors, or the chain of people before you... obtained the land from the railway or the Feds to begin with.

You and I will have a major disagreement with this.  Who owns federal lands?  People own the lands.  Not the government.  Property rights are owned by the people, not the government.  That's like saying a tax cut is the government giving away money.  It's our money to begin with.

It's a dangerous argument to claim that "arguing the property rights argument over eminent domain is not a strong argument since [we] ... obtained the land from the ... Feds to begin with".

"Not a strong argument"!  Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish.  Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.

Your argument dismissing property rights over eminent domain because it was the government's land anyway ... I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with you.

 

CMStPnP
In the specific case you mention.     Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline.     It's like a $1.4 Billion difference.    Not small potatoes and Brightline could use the same argument as your using.     It's being railroaded into accepting a higher cost right of way for the benefit of a few wealthy Corporations.

Brightline is not being 'railroaded' into anything.  They are the ones asking for eminent domain and for sharing the ROW with a toll road.  And Disney comes out with a private transit system from the airport to their business by taking away property from several citizens and ruining the property values of many other citizens.

If the argument is that the new railroad's Disney stop is just because it's on the way to Tampa, then there are other better routes to the south that completey bypass Disney altogether.

Brightline is a private company.  They can try to route their railroad wherever they want.  It is also the right of the citizens of Orange County to stop them or force them to make allowances.  The issue that it may cost Brightline's millionaire investors more money is irrelevant.  

Of course, Disney has nothing to do with this either, do they?  It's kind of funny that at the same time Brightline is pushing this route, Disney announces they are ending the Magical Express from MCO.

York1 John       

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, May 24, 2021 3:31 PM

Remember Crandal owns a lot of AA stock and more fixed price options.  Good money to be had if AA stock is not hurting from Brightline.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, May 24, 2021 3:33 PM

Remember Crandal owns a lot of AA stock and more fixed price options.  Good money to be had if AA stock is not loosing value from Brightline.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, May 24, 2021 9:06 PM

York1
... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish.  Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.

From the 5th Amedment to the Constitution:

... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, May 24, 2021 9:24 PM

York1
A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system.  That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.

That would be a corruption, except enriching milloinaires is not a reason for eminent domain.  The legal basis is that the project must show that it is for the public good.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, May 24, 2021 10:32 PM

MidlandMike
... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

.......And there it is.   

Under our real estate laws your next door neighbor can actually steal a portion of your property legally by maintaining it unchallenged for a number of years.    Lookup "Adverse Possession" and the 5-6 requirements in order to make that argument in court.   

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Posted by York1 on Tuesday, May 25, 2021 9:32 AM

CMStPnP
MidlandMike
... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

.......And there it is.   

Under our real estate laws your next door neighbor can actually steal a portion of your property legally by maintaining it unchallenged for a number of years.    Lookup "Adverse Possession" and the 5-6 requirements in order to make that argument in court.   

 

And there what is?

The fact that eminent domain is legal is not the issue here.

The fact that Brightline wants the government to use eminent domain so that Brightline can build a railroad to earn money for their bondholders is the issue.

This whole discussion is based on your condemnation of an elected official working to represent his constituents instead of a group of millionaire investors:

CMStPnP
Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route.    I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.

It would be a corruption of our democratic system if the representative didn't work to represent those "wealthy residential and land owners".  Maybe because they're wealthy, they don't deserve the representation?

And in this case, the county and state are going to have to decide what is good for the public interest:  a train built by a private company and financed by millionaire investors, or the county's own landowners who will lose property and whose remaining property will lose value.

What does adverse possession have to do with this discussion?

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Posted by York1 on Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:26 AM

MidlandMike
York1
... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish.  Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.

From the 5th Amedment to the Constitution:

... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

 

This isn't what the discussion is about.  The fact that eminent domain is legal doesn't change what Brightline's plans call for.  The fact is that eminent domain is a process of last resort, and should be fought by land owners in nearly every case.

If Orange County and the state of Florida decide to use eminent domain in this case, that is their right.

It won't change the fact that it would benefit Brightline's millionaire investors, benefit Disney's billionaire owners, and take land and hurt property owners' land values along the route.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, May 25, 2021 7:30 PM

York1
This isn't what the discussion is about.  The fact that eminent domain is legal doesn't change what Brightline's plans call for.  The fact is that eminent domain is a process of last resort, and should be fought by land owners in nearly every case. If Orange County and the state of Florida decide to use eminent domain in this case, that is their right. It won't change the fact that it would benefit Brightline's millionaire investors, benefit Disney's billionaire owners, and take land and hurt property owners' land values along the route.

Of course the local government should look out for their citizens.  That includes those living along the route, but also all the citizens of the county who benefit from the tourist industry, and also those who might use the transportation services of Brightline.  As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.

As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway.  Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.

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Posted by York1 on Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:07 PM

MidlandMike
As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway.  Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.

This isn't transit for the community.  This is a train from the airport to Disney.  It provides no transit for Hunter's Creek, since the train only goes through.  At least the highway has two access points for the citizens there.

MidlandMike
As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.

If this was a public operation, I might agree with you.  It's not.  Privately run Brightline wants this route because it's cheaper than the route Orlando wants.  Cheaper means Brightline won't have to sell more bonds and the present wealthy bondholders will benefit.  If this were a public utility, they would probably route the train to other venues also, such as the convention center and Universal.

 

It's obvious I disagree with others here.  I've posted enough.  I apologize for the rants, but eminent domain, for a good reason, is a hot button issue for me.  Enough said.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, May 25, 2021 9:46 PM

Here is a U tube of the May 2021 progress Cocoa - Orlando airport.

Brightline Construction: Orlando Line Along State Road 528 - May 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, May 26, 2021 2:02 AM

York1
And in this case, the county and state are going to have to decide what is good for the public interest:  a train built by a private company and financed by millionaire investors, or the county's own landowners who will lose property and whose remaining property will lose value.

Fortress Investments is an "Investment Group", which is a group of Venture Capital Firms pooling their money together as one.   I noticed you no longer refer to them as Billionaire investors and 99.9% or more of them are not.   Anyone of any income level can join or buy shares in a Venture Capital firm, you do not need to be a millionaire.   It is another form of investing just like Real Estate Investment Trusts or Mutual Funds.  So Fortress Investments is an aggregation of Individual Firms which is an aggregation of individual investors.   You don't seem to grasp that based on how your writing your responses.    Facts are most of the venture capitalist investors are probably not as wealthy as the landowners around Orlando (so your argument on the privelege of the wealthy is probably and most likely turned around in this case).   

Have you looked at what they are asking for land in that area near Disney on an acreage basis and what the property taxes are on that acreage?   So while I recognize it is an appeal towards base emotion over intellect, it's probably not appropriate to attempt to use the "class warfare" argument here.   I am pretty confident in this case the landowners around Disney are not poor or down and out on their finances as you attempt to portray.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, May 26, 2021 2:11 AM

MidlandMike
As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway.  Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.

And if being poor in this country means owning acreage in Orlando adjacent to Disney.......someone please make me poor!!!! Big Smile

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Posted by York1 on Wednesday, May 26, 2021 9:47 AM

I had made up my mind last night not to respond anymore.  And yet, stupid me, here I am again.  This will now be my last post ... I promise.  (I heard those cheers out there!)

 

CMStPnP
So while I recognize it is an appeal towards base emotion over intellect, it's probably not appropriate to attempt to use the "class warfare" argument here.   I am pretty confident in this case the landowners around Disney are not poor or down and out on their finances as you attempt to portray.

Appeal toward base emotion?  Attempt to use class warfare as an argument?  Before I even posted my first comment in this thread, this is what you wrote:

CMStPnP
Even more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run.    Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route.    I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.

Seems you were using class warfare and appealing to base emotion to show how bad the representative was for taking the side of the bad rich people.

Nowhere did I claim the landowners were "poor or down and out on their finances".  In fact, if you check back, I said the wealthy landowners deserved representation, even though they may be wealthy.  You were the one who implied their elected representative was wrong for taking the side of the "wealthy residential and land owners".

 

CMStPnP
 I noticed you no longer refer to them as Billionaire investors and 99.9% or more of them are not.   Anyone of any income level can join or buy shares in a Venture Capital firm, you do not need to be a millionaire. 

By billionaire investors, I was referring to the investment groups, not the individuals.  The same with Disney, which is owned by large, very rich investment companies and foundations.  It's possible even my own retirement funds have some money invested there.  That does not make eminent domain right.

I will once again go back to my original post and why I even got involved in this discussion.

A U.S. representative is entitled, and even obligated, to represent the people in his district.  It does not matter how rich those people are, and it does not matter how much we may want a new train.  That is not, as you claimed, a "corruption of our Democratic system".  It is, in fact, the way a democratic republic is supposed to function.

CMStPnP and Midland Mike, I hope nothing I've said causes a problem.  I always appreciate both of you and your comments on the various forum topics.  I apologize if I've have said anything that causes a problem.

I promise, promise, and this time I really, really, mean it, this will be my last post in this thread.

York1 John       

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, May 26, 2021 10:03 PM

York1

 

 
MidlandMike
As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway.  Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.

 

This isn't transit for the community.  This is a train from the airport to Disney.  It provides no transit for Hunter's Creek, since the train only goes through.  At least the highway has two access points for the citizens there.

 

 
MidlandMike
As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.

 

If this was a public operation, I might agree with you.  It's not.  Privately run Brightline wants this route because it's cheaper than the route Orlando wants.  Cheaper means Brightline won't have to sell more bonds and the present wealthy bondholders will benefit.  If this were a public utility, they would probably route the train to other venues also, such as the convention center and Universal.

 

It's obvious I disagree with others here.  I've posted enough.  I apologize for the rants, but eminent domain, for a good reason, is a hot button issue for me.  Enough said.

 

I recall that Sun Rail was also interested in the line for transit options.

Regarding private vs. public, historical review of the line may be instructive.  In 2000 Florida voters approved a constitutional amendment to fund HSR.  Orlando-Tampa was an early favorite.  However, before things got off the ground, Gov, Jeb Bush endorsed the repeal of the amendment, and voters reversed themselves.  Then with stimulus funds available to help recover from the Great Recession, the Feds granted the funds to revive the Orlando-Tampa proposal.  This time Gov. Scott killed the project.  (I guess I should be greatful since my state, Michigan, got redirected funds to buy the east 100 miles of the Wolverine corridor, which is being upgraded to 110 mph.)  So maybe the third time's the charm, with a private company funding the line.  Florida apparently wants the line, they just don't want to pay for it.  Brightline is risking their money, and seeing that the dozen companies that tried private passenger operation in the Amtrak era are no longer in business, it's quite the risk.  Even if a public agency had built the line, they would have contracted out the construction to a private company, and may have even contracted out the operation.  In any case private investors are probably going to make money, and the public gets the transportation.  And for 200 years, with the help of eminent domain, that's how the rail system and all transportation/utility infrastructure was built.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, May 30, 2021 10:54 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, June 8, 2021 12:30 AM

This link shows the damage of the FEC Cane Creek bridge.  A replacement 2 main track bridge is being built so we can see the progress of bridge being built as well as the damage the ready mix truck did to the bridge being  replaced. 

The drone footage and audio is very good.

Crane Creek Bridge Strike on the Florida East Coast Railway and Brightline Bridge Construction - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, June 14, 2021 10:21 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 12:50 PM

Here is another overview  of Brightline.  article  starts at about 50 seconds

BUILDING A RAILROAD TO WALT DISNEY WORLD - Brightline Spring 2021 Update - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, June 17, 2021 1:51 PM

Thanks for sharing ..  I would imagine Mears will go out of their way to make things a challenge for Brightline.  

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, June 18, 2021 9:05 PM

There were able to find another span to replace the damaged bridge.

https://youtu.be/K6f-TuMf5Nk

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 8:56 PM

Latest report from brightline.  A little of slick presentation. Dated june 22.  This progress report mainly about ORLANDO - DISNEY.

 https://occompt.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=9508045&GUID=E3B3499E-B309-488F-8BB1-8EEB50808127 

Index (ocfl.net)

2021-06-22 PPP File 21-768 Work Session Brightline Update.pdf

Sorry cannot get links to work yet.

2021-06-22 PPP File 21-768 Work Session Brightline Update (3).pdf

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Posted by RKFarms on Friday, June 25, 2021 1:05 PM

Regarding eminent domain, I am also strongly opposed when it is used to benefit one class on people over another, and especially when it is used against poor and ethnic neighborhoods. Look at where interstates and expressways and landfills get sited. That is part of a long history of class warfare against the poor and nonwhite. Where were all the representatives then. At least this rail line will be a lot less obtrusive than an expressway or landfill.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 7:15 PM

Drone footage of the brightline bridge construction over I-95.

2021 Brightline Updated Selects Reel mp4 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 11:44 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, July 12, 2021 12:32 AM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, July 24, 2021 1:36 PM

July I-95 Cocoa tunnel .  What ever Drone he is using is very good.

Brightline Construction: Interstate 95 Bridge and Cocoa Curve/Tunnel Progress - July 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, July 31, 2021 9:58 AM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 1:34 PM

July 2021 bridge work views # 6 along the Atlantic coast.  FEC is really going to get a very up to date track from West Palm Beach to Cocoa. A thought on the previous post. The work connection to the Power plant spur would allow freight service to Orlando without going thru the airport ! 

Brightline Construction: July 2021 Bridge Edition - YouTube

 

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 4:50 PM

I was thinking about that, but wouldn't the tunnels under 528 hinder freight to Cocoa?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, August 9, 2021 7:15 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, August 9, 2021 7:32 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, August 27, 2021 6:52 PM

Full report of construction from Orlando airport to West Palm Beach.  Dated August 2021.  Certainly a lot of construction work.

Brightline Orlando - West Palm Beach Complete Expansion Construction Update - Summer 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, August 31, 2021 1:30 PM

Interesting how they built that Micco crossover by joining the two halves together.  I have never seen that before.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 3, 2021 10:34 PM

Construction north of Cocoa to Rockledge.  Construction North of Cocoa is to double track from where Brightline turns toward to Orlando up to a connections of FEC 2 main track north of Cocoa turnout.

Brightline Construction: Cocoa and Rockledge Updates - August 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, September 4, 2021 1:52 PM

blue streak 1
blue streak 1 wrote the following post 15 hours ago: Construction north of Cocoa to Rockledge.  Construction North of Cocoa is to double track from where Brightline turns toward to Orlando up to a connections of FEC 2 main track north of Cocoa turnout. Brightline Construction: Cocoa and Rockledge Updates - August 2021 - YouTube

Understood the trainsets are push pull but wouldn't train turnaround be faster for trains terminating in Orlando and wouldn't it reduce operational costs over a long duration, if they just built a loop track in Orlando and used that to pull into the station for trains that would turn around there to head back to Miami?    Seems they have the real estate space for it, maybe not the money.

Just curious.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, September 4, 2021 9:49 PM

They are already planing to go beyond Orlando to Disney World and eventually Tampa, so Orlando would only be an intermediate station.  Also Orlando Airport owns the land the depot is built on, and may not want to lose the extra real estate a balloon track would take.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, September 4, 2021 10:40 PM

Not many heavy rail trains use balloon tracks for turning.  None that I can recall in Chicago.  Maybe In NYC? 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, September 4, 2021 11:02 PM

charlie hebdo
Maybe In NYC?

Do you not consider trains using Grand Central to be heavy rail?

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, September 5, 2021 2:47 PM

That was what I was thinking. GCT has or had a balloon track.  I believe they were more necessary in the past at stub terminals with loose-car passenger railroading prior to widespread MU and cab car usage. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, September 5, 2021 9:27 PM

LAPUT has a major construction project to continue some stub tracks to loop back to the line headed south.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, September 7, 2021 11:17 PM

Update of construction in Melbourne FL mid August - September. The Cane creek bridge is really a major piece of construction.  This was the bridge that hit by a ready mix truck several months ago. For alot of our newer readers they can really get an idea of how RRs go about getting new track.  At the end of the video let it continue and you can get view of new FEC business cars at end of the freight train.

Brightline Construction: Melbourne Updates - August/September 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 10, 2021 11:04 PM

Updatee Ft. Pierce Indian river county  August 2021

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 10, 2021 11:26 PM
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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, September 11, 2021 3:52 AM

CMStPnP
Understood the trainsets are push pull but wouldn't train turnaround be faster for trains terminating in Orlando and wouldn't it reduce operational costs over a long duration, if they just built a loop track in Orlando and used that to pull into the station for trains that would turn around there to head back to Miami?    Seems they have the real estate space for it, maybe not the money.

Just curious.

Train stops at terminal. Engineer places automatic brake to handle out and cuts out the brake stand. Engineer walks to the opposite cab, curently six car lengths, and cuts in the brake stand. Engineer takes automatic brake handle to release and pressurizes the brake pipe. Engineer makes a full service application and communicates with the assistant in the first cab to assure continuity. Engineer makes a full release and communicates with the assistant to assure continuity. Engineer initiates route in I-ETMS. Total time: five minutes (give or take a few to refresh coffee).

Also remember, the Premium Class coach is on the south end of the train and they want it in the same place on each trip.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, September 19, 2021 8:21 PM

Orlando airport east to Cocoa. Aug 29,2021. Note the construction spur to OUC track is almost complete with the turnout just needing to be installed.

Brightline Orlando Line Construction Update - August 29, 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, September 20, 2021 8:19 PM

it seems like they may have more in mind than just using that OUC connection for construction.

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 11:24 AM

rdamon
it seems like they may have more in mind than just using that OUC connection for construction.

I think they're just using common supplies to build it.  That shoo-fly-like bend around the widened pad for the signal equipment indicates 'temporary but heavy construction' to me.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, September 27, 2021 6:52 PM
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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, September 29, 2021 7:19 AM
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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:38 AM

The Live Railfan Webcam in Cocoa, FL shows them working on the sub-roadbed for the new tracks.

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:12 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, October 6, 2021 12:12 AM

October 3rd, 2021.  First unit train of rail is pulled by CSX loco over OUC line to the Brightline conection.  The rail trai is then pushed onto the brightlile connecting track to the end of the main line approximately 200 feet beyond connecting track.  Rail train is 5 high by 8 (?) wide.  If 8 wide then 40 sticks  x  1600 feet each.   =  64000 feet  of rail or 32000 track feet.  =   ~  6+ miles of new track.

First Train on Brightline’s New Orlando Line - YouTube

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Posted by D.Carleton on Friday, October 8, 2021 8:19 AM

Another red trainset on it's way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFpRGPv1XAA

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, October 8, 2021 11:43 AM

Caught in Kansas City

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, October 9, 2021 8:47 AM

A look at the Siemens factory building Brightline rolling stock.  There are sniptes of other agencies orders.

Building Brightline's Trains: A Tour Inside Siemens Sacramento Rolling Stock Factory - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, October 11, 2021 10:05 PM

Here is a video of #2 Brightline Red when at Sacremento builders.  The design of interiors makes wonder why Amtrak has not copied these designs ?   Oh wait.  Not invented here.!!!!!

Inside BrightRed: A Tour of Brightline's Sixth and Newest Train - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, October 14, 2021 10:06 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 9:45 PM

Brightline update from Frontenac thru Cocoa.  Frontenac is north of Cocoa where FEC double track from some distance on to the north ends.  Brightline and FEC are extending the 2 main tracks on south to the location where the line to Orlando breaks off.  Where it breaks off will be 4 Main tracks , then 3 and eventually the 2 MT on toward the south.  Here is the latest report.  The reports seem to be coming at least once a week.  Congrats to all the effort and great overhead work.

Brightline Construction: Frontenac Improvement Project and Cocoa Updates - September/October 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 8:22 AM

I look forward to his updates.  Neat shots of the Virtual Railfan cameras at around 10:12.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:55 PM

Brightline is proposing Nov 8 th restart.  Have to wonder has FEC dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts for the replacement PTC?

Florida’s Brightline set to restart service Nov. 8 - Trains

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:24 PM

Oct 17, 2021 view of Melborne's Crane Creek bridge.  Quite a change from last seen.  Interesting how the yellow steel construction(?) members are being stored on the long out of service 2nd track bridge structures.

Brightline Crane Creek Bridge Construction - October 17, 2021 - YouTube

 

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, October 22, 2021 7:38 AM

The Crane creek bridge is one of the most interesting projects on this line.  The logistics to keep everything open and repair truck damage has been great to watch. I was suprised that they didn't use that second bridge for more.

A lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project.  Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 22, 2021 9:10 PM

rdamon
A lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project.  Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction. 

Crane Creek is an inlet of of the Indian River Lagoon which is salt water.  It is also not that far from the Atlantic Ocean.  Old exposed steel in that environment corrodes faster.  It might not be suitable for structural reuse.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, October 23, 2021 5:45 AM

Another shorter video containing the over view of the Palm Beach repair facility and some schedule testing.  Prior to start of revenue service.

Brightline Simulated Service and Running Repair Facility - October 16, 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Saturday, October 23, 2021 12:43 PM

MidlandMike

 

 
rdamon
A lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project.  Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction. 

 

Crane Creek is an inlet of of the Indian River Lagoon which is salt water.  It is also not that far from the Atlantic Ocean.  Old exposed steel in that environment corrodes faster.  It might not be suitable for structural reuse.

 

 

Agreed, I was think more for the 'art' value  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, October 31, 2021 12:55 AM

From Port Solerno - Jupiter - West Palm Beach Oct 16, 2021.   Not much aerial views except for Jupiter draw bridge.

South Florida Brightline Construction - October 2021 - YouTube

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, November 8, 2021 5:15 PM

Narcoossee road to past OUC  rail connection.  Track is being laid both ways from the OUC rail connection.  Notice all signal locations have solar panels and standby generators where comercial power not available.

Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 1: Narcoossee Road, SR 417, Innovation Way - Oct/Nov 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, November 8, 2021 5:20 PM

Looks like he is 'in' with the Brightline folks now.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, November 12, 2021 10:34 PM

Brightline from Dallas Blvd to state 520  ..  His sction 2 of the  Airport to FEC overview.,

Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 2: Dallas Blvd to State Road 520 - Oct/Nov 2021 - YouTube

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, November 18, 2021 12:25 AM

Brightline Oct -  Nov 2021 section 3 .  State route 520 - Cocoa / FEC connection,

Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 3: State Road 520 to Cocoa - Oct/Nov 2021 - YouTube

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 6, 2021 7:14 PM

The 5 bridges in Brevard County are shown in the following link.

Brightline Construction: The 8th Bridge Edition - Brevard County Bridges Nov/Dec 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, December 11, 2021 2:36 PM

Well good news does not always follow any well run project.

PDN -  You will be interested in this PE report.

Appears that Brightline's Miami central station has problems .  This came about because South Florida Regional Transportation Authority - SFRTA (TRI-RAIL) had an independent due dilengience survey of their proposed use of the Miami Central station.  A Miami Herald article stated some of these problems were known back in March but SFRTA did not find out until a couple weeks ago.

Report says many items .  Essentially bridges do not meet AREMA 200% loads for trains.  Think locso especially.   Also car step clearances are not sufficient. Steps of cars would drag against platform.  Seems like a repeat of what happened in France?

My concern.  Are these deficiencies also part of the Brightline section of the station? 

SFRTA MiamiCentral Station Report_20211202_Rev01 (1).pdf (miamiherald.com)

Miami Herald article.

Tri-Rail trains won’t fit in new Miami Brightline platform | Miami Herald

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, December 11, 2021 7:55 PM

Shades of the:

Florida International University pedestrian bridge collapse. 

After reading the RC report, which I found to be very well done, (but while I am a Graduate Engineer, I an NOT a Registered Professional Engineer nor is my field Civil Engineering as the Reports author is.) I look forward to the Brightline response. It is too easy for contractors and some engineering firms to "cut" corners and do things to "reduce" cost. 

Spackle and paint cover many things you or I would not do if we were remodeling our homes. 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 11, 2021 11:15 PM

Electroliner 1935
Shades of the:

Florida International University pedestrian bridge collapse. 

After reading the RC report, which I found to be very well done, (but while I am a Graduate Engineer, I an NOT a Registered Professional Engineer nor is my field Civil Engineering as the Reports author is.) I look forward to the Brightline response. It is too easy for contractors and some engineering firms to "cut" corners and do things to "reduce" cost. 

Spackle and paint cover many things you or I would not do if we were remodeling our homes. 

Remember Champlain Tower South fell in Florida.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by rdamon on Sunday, December 12, 2021 3:10 PM

Use a standard  ...  or just see if it works? 

"In the report, Railroad Consultants wrote Brightline used a multiplier for train loads that was “roughly 90% less than what is required by AREMA,” the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association. Brightline said it used a different standard used by high-speed rail, according to the report, which recommended testing to see if the trains can safely go up and down the ramp."

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:21 PM

Here is the Dec 5th track work north of the Palm Beach maintenance facility  According to roaming railfan this work is almost complete north to the first major bridge.

You will note that there are two tracks that cross each other leading off to the west that connect to the TriRail tracks in both a northward and southward direction.  These tracks were constructed several years ago. The Trirail connections are between the West Palm Beach TriRail/Amtrak station to the south and the Magnolia Trirail station to the north.. The Magnolia station is the last station for Trirail to the north..  Those two connecting tracks may be used if TriRail ever goes north of this location on the FEC.

Brightline Construction: Northwood Signal and Track Cutover - December 5, 2021 - YouTube

EDIT:  Although it will not happen for 5 - 15 years these connections will give Amtrak access to its line on to MIA if Amtrak ever uses FEC to the West Palm Beach connecting track.  As wel If the Amtrak line from WPB south ever got blocked for some reason Amtrak could detour on FEC to the connection at IRIS to the Amtrak station. 

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 7:22 AM

Here is the goole view of the link ..  looks like the overhead was shot before the turnout was installed on the Tri-Rail side.

 

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, December 19, 2021 10:59 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, December 21, 2021 11:07 PM

Bright line going into tech for grade crossing incursions.  How is all this going to work without enforcement and penalties?

Rail News - Brightline steps up grade-crossing safety efforts. For Railroad Career Professionals (progressiverailroading.com)

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, December 22, 2021 7:40 AM

"Brightline partnered with the nonprofit Community Greening on a project to plant more than 3,000 native trees and shrubs along the South Florida railway. Combined with fencing, the native plants will cover more than 10 miles along the Brightline/Florida East Coast Railway corridor serving as a deterrent and channelization mechanism for trespassers."


Translation - Thorn Bushes :D

 

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, December 22, 2021 7:50 AM

Do not know if they are in Florida.  I have a nuisance thorn bush that grows fast to about 10feet tall,  Cannot spell it but it is called Ilegiagnes.  Many 1-1/2 inch thorns on all shoots that grow up. Trying to cut it back have to wear hard hat, safety goggles, welder's gloves, and very heavy Zero degree coat with hood. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, December 22, 2021 9:41 AM

You mean silverthorn? (Elaeagnus, not something easy to spell!)

Personal armor is desirable working with that stuff.  But good fences of it definitely make good neighbors...

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, December 22, 2021 3:33 PM

Here is a link to railway track and structures which is a more detailed of the crossing protection.

Brightline investing millions of dollars in railroad safety and mental health awareness - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)

Edit found the bush it definitely is the one.

Elaeagnus pungens (Silverthorn, Thorny Elaeagnus, Thorny Olive) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox (ncsu.edu)

EDIT:  Best way for Brightline to control is a sidewinder bush hog that can top hedge and vacuum pickup. Body armour defiinitely needed.  Roundup does not work too well either.

Thanks for the common name!

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Posted by ORNHOO on Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:59 PM

Here in the pacific northwest we use "botanical razorwire', otherwise known as blackberry vines.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, December 23, 2021 7:07 PM

Construction progress of the Frontenac improvement project.  This is the project that will connect a FEC double track about 3-1/2 miles north of the Orlando connection to Cocoa junction. This by constructing a 2nd main track to the Cocoa Junction / Orlando connection.

Brightline Construction: Frontenac Improvement Project & Cocoa Junction - December 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 27, 2021 9:54 AM

Mid December 2021.

Hear is the work in Brevard County.  It is from Cocoa junction south to Pineada.  Essentially from Cocoa of the post before this on south.

Brightline Construction: Central Brevard County Progress - December 2021 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 3, 2022 10:45 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, January 8, 2022 2:04 PM

Cocoa junction progressing rapidly as of Jan 5th

Brightline Construction: Cocoa Junction Update - January 5, 2022 - YouTube

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 11, 2022 8:33 PM

Rail installation Orlando - Cocoa.  Work is presently just either side of the Orlando Utilitties Commission line to the power plant.  Work going both east and west of the OUC rail line.  The OUC line is supplying rail and Ballast trains brought there by CSX.

Brightline Construction: Work Train on the Orlando Line - January 10, 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by Gramp on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:43 AM
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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:48 PM

Brightline test train passed the Cocoa cameras around 12:54 eastern 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 7:11 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, February 8, 2022 12:29 AM

Jan 2022 Stuart to Jupiter construction.  The Jupiter draw bridge appears that the bridge will be one of the last portions to be complete.  Reusing that Bascule Bridge and improving it at the same time is going to be a difficult problem.  As well the first track bridge west side has to be completed.  Then the east track bridge will be replaced with the cranes having to reach over the completed bridge to finish the east track.

Brightline Construction: Stuart to Jupiter Progress - December 2021/January 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, February 9, 2022 7:32 PM

Great video of the delivery of "Bright Blue" to the Orlando facility

 

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, February 17, 2022 10:30 AM

Brightline Orlando Vehicle Maintenance Facility - February 3, 2022 - YouTube

Sorry for this format. Regular posting kept getting 403 forbidden.

Feb 3rd.

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, February 21, 2022 3:56 PM

First train on new Crane Creek Bridge

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 14, 2022 11:05 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, April 17, 2022 8:22 PM

Fluff piece about Brightline that just touches on th politics.

ANOTHER TRAIN COMING TO DISNEY! - Brightline/SunRail Spring 2022 Update - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, April 17, 2022 8:29 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, April 17, 2022 9:04 PM

April 16th well edited video.   The Loxahatchee old bascule bridge removal.  Then the first time placing of temporary bridge which took a lot of time .  Hope the twice daily operation will take less time.  We all know about draw bridges.  Swing bridge, Bascule which was the present bridge and replacement , and lift bridge.  There are a few odd balls especially in PNW.  Maybe we can call this temporary draw bridge a 2 crane lift bridge?

It will be interesting to warch the daily operation of the Temp bridge.

Brightline Construction: The Start of the Loxahatchee River Drawbridge Replacement - YouTube 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, May 1, 2022 9:33 PM

There maybe a compromise solution.  At first reading thought it was all settled but not so.  Brightline seems to go with the convention center route?

How does anyone deal with all the parties?  Brightline, Sun rail, CSX,  FL DOT, possible Fl governor and legislature, Orange county, Oscelo county, Polk county, Disney ( who will not get the exclusive service they want ), Universal, Convention center, politicians, FRA, Federal funds dispenser, and who knows what else?

EDIT: Orlando city, Kissimmee city, Amtrak, 

Compromise plan could extend Brightline toward Tampa, SunRail in Orlando (floridapolitics.com)

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 12:46 AM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 2:38 AM
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 5:39 PM

blue streak 1
What is a cut and throw subject of this last link?

 

They CUT (sever) the existing track and THROW (reconnect) an end of the active line to the New track. It would be like when a highway lane is blocked and all traffic has to move to an adjacent lane. 

In this case, they have built a new section of track and are rerouting traffic onto it and taking the parallel old track out of service for either rebuilding or reconfiguration.

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Posted by Gramp on Friday, May 6, 2022 9:10 PM

Will this new line connect with existing trackage at Orlando?  Will any freight be moved on this line?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, May 7, 2022 4:12 AM

May 6th airport to CSX/OUC bridge. 

Noticed that some signals are already turned to look along tracks.  do not know if that means they are actually active. The turnout from single to 2 main tracks is a #32 which along with one on Amtrak's NEC are highest number in USA. Over 4000 feet long.  Starts at time 7:45.  Has 5 switch machines,

Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 1 - Orlando International Airport to Innovation Way - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, May 18, 2022 7:40 PM

Brightline runs Bright blue 2 into Orlando station to verify all clearanc specs are met. First time any Brightline train has entered the station.  

SEE: Brightline high-speed train arrives at new OIA station for the first time (msn.com)

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, May 19, 2022 5:52 PM

More construction  activities.

HSR Constructors Brightline Phase 2 Construction Sizzle Reel - YouTube

For those who wonder about future freight service by FEC.  No freight is planned thru the Orlando airport.  If you go to10.40 and play on the following link you will see the connection OUC/CSX Stanton Rail line connection.  That connection has been used to transport rail trains for mainly east directions to lay down rail.  If and that is a big "IF" FEC gets permission to ever start freight to Orlando the bypass of the airport would be used to reach yard. That may require getting trackage rights on OUC/CSX.  Also permission from turnpike authority.

Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 1 - Orlando International Airport to Innovation Way - YouTube

Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 2 - Dallas Blvd to West of Interstate 95 - YouTube

Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 2 - Dallas Blvd to West of Interstate 95 - YouTube

Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 3 - Interstate 95 to Cocoa - YouTube

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Posted by Gramp on Thursday, May 19, 2022 10:18 PM

Thanks for answers. 
Will the 400 foot Y switch with the five switch machines allow passage at 125 mph?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, May 21, 2022 11:28 PM

Longer video of 1st test clearance to verify not any clearance problems such as happened to the Miami station. 

First Brightline Train at the Orlando Station - May 17, 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, June 2, 2022 11:35 PM

Here is video dated June 1.  All events started May22.  FEC shut down over bridge with an AWW of 3 days. This is the  procedure of installing the new Bascule over the Loxahatchee River.  Old bascule was removed on April 16th previously with temporary span installed until this new Bascule installed.  All work in just 5 weeks.  Bet Amtrak cannot do that time.  Final bridge work connection is not shown in this video. 

(1) Brightline Construction: Installing the New Bascule at the Loxahatchee River Drawbridge - YouTube 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, June 4, 2022 4:53 PM

June 4th release unloading last rail train on the FEC portion of Brightline.

Brightline Construction: Unloading a Rail Train - May 15, 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, June 10, 2022 8:30 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 8:52 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9:09 PM

June 17 trlease with talk about Brightline .  Mainly a PR type presentation.

Brightline: A Bright Future - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:32 PM

June 26 release.  Happened earlier in June.  Shows the change over of the Turkey Creek bridge old span to new span.  Gives both a before cut over and an after cut over.

Brightline Construction: New Turkey Creek Bridge Cut Over - June 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, July 15, 2022 11:51 PM

July 12th release.  A rail train is pushed back thru Cocoa tunnel going toward Orlando. Earlier laid rail not from this rail train allowed rail train to push thru tunnel..  You will note that the 2 GPs power up and smoke as train is pushed up the ramp.  First train had about 7.5 miles of new rail.  All rail was to all be pulled off rail train to allow rail train to return to factory.

A puzzle.  When FEC brought the rail train in it had several Hertzog gondolas carrying ballast.  That was a surprise.  Is Hertzog short of standard hopper ballast dump cars?  Could this possible shortage of dump cars be the reason that Brightline had Canadian ballast brought in by ship?   Maybe more delays by CSX  PSR?

Brightline Construction: First Rail Train Through The Cocoa Tunnel - July 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, July 16, 2022 12:21 AM

Missed july 6 release of Barton curve change increasing allowable speeds.

Brightline Construction: Barton Curve Shift - June 18, 2022 - YouTube

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, July 16, 2022 12:55 AM

Brightline could not get all the ballast by rail so imported some from Canada by ship.  The FEC portion of the rail train lead with Hertzog gondolas carrying ballast brings up a question., Is CSX delaying deliveries because of PSR meltdowns so much that Hertzog has run out of available empty ballast hopper dump cars? 

Brightline could not wait for rail deliveries of ballast if it wanted to maintain its construction and opening dates.  It also has to take time to have the ballast setteled and set to begin service.

Brightline Construction: The International Ballast Edition - YouTube

 EDIT:  This may be revelant.  Have noticed several CSX ballast trains with Hertzog automated dump cars and old CSX manual operate ballast cars.  In fact upon reflection the CSX cars might not be ballast cars but coal cars.  That observation because could not see heavier balllast loaded to where it could be seen at top of car compared to regular ballast cars.

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, July 22, 2022 9:36 PM
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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, July 23, 2022 8:51 PM

When Brightline was negotiating ROW with the parallel (Orlando-Cocoa) Beachline Expressway authority, the highway engineer said that his main concern was that Brightline didn't compete with them with a station at Cocoa.  I presumed that the agreement would have been conditional on no Cocoa station.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 24, 2022 8:40 AM

MidlandMike
When Brightline was negotiating ROW with the parallel (Orlando-Cocoa) Beachline Expressway authority, the highway engineer said that his main concern was that Brightline didn't compete with them with a station at Cocoa.  I presumed that the agreement would have been conditional on no Cocoa station.

While I understand the desire to maintain toll revenue, I'm not sure that a considerable amount of 'new business' between the Orlando region and Cocoa would actually constitute 'lost revenue'.  

...the business implications of a Brevard County Brightline stop could allow for more businesses on the Space Coast to tap into the talent pool in Orlando. 

“Potential future business in areas such as Orlando will allow us the ability to cast a wider net for job talents to bring here to the Space Coast. It’s something that we’re looking forward to, specifically with the Brightline system,” [Adrian] Kellgren [of a local firm, Kel-Tec] said.

Remember that the Space Coast TPO had a Brevard County static discussion that culminated in this report from 2016.

https://www.spacecoasttpo.com/home/showpublisheddocument/290/637745645362400000

Presumably the plot thickens because Brevard County doesn't have toll roads by choice, but their mileage of 528 is 'hostage' to tolling in the west for revenue they don't see.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:03 AM

More complete track construction completed.  That allows more track to be 2 main tracks.  Do not believe this is the HrSR testing site yet.  Probably still needs signaling work?

Brightline Construction: Vero Beach, Fort Pierce, Jensen Beach, and Stuart Progress - June 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, July 25, 2022 8:43 PM

Brightline installs a 5 track signal bridge.  Believe it is located just  south of Cocoa CP.

Watch: Time-lapse video of signal bridge installment - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, July 25, 2022 8:51 PM

Caldonian sleeper passengers go no where.  At least one passenger got a good nights sleep.

Man wakes up after night on sleeper train to find it never left Glasgow | Scotland | The Guardian

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 26, 2022 3:24 AM

Overmod
While I understand the desire to maintain toll revenue, I'm not sure that a considerable amount of 'new business' between the Orlando region and Cocoa would actually constitute 'lost revenue'.  

You have to consider the source of the comment and the fear highway developers have of HSR competing with them for government money.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, July 28, 2022 9:50 PM

A few videos of Brightline 's 79 MPH testing from railway track and structures.  Does anyone know if the "off side"secondary gates lowering shown in the first video is according to FRA rules?

Watch: Brightline high-speed testing begins on portion of Orlando line - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 28, 2022 10:19 PM

blue streak 1
A few videos of Brightline 's 79 MPH testing from railway track and structures.  Does anyone know if the secondary gates lowering shown in the first video is according to FRA rules?

Watch: Brightline high-speed testing begins on portion of Orlando line - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)

Doubt that the original view of the gates have them set for 79 MPH operation.  To my mind, the 'off side' gates should have been fully lowered prior to the train occupying the crossing.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 2, 2022 11:43 PM

Progress on Aventura and BocaRaton stations.   Have to wonder if they are going to be complete by end of year?  There is a short follow update for the end of July but not by Roaming. 

Brightline Construction: Aventura and Boca Raton Station Progress - June 25, 2022 - YouTube

Innovation way to Cocoa progress report.  the construction is getting closer to connecting Orlando to Cocoa.  As understood connecting the 2  is waiting for 2 additional rail trains to deliver rail to be installed.

Brightline Construction: Orlando Line Progress - July 2022 - YouTube

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 9, 2022 11:54 PM

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