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An "expensive model collector"
Paul of CovingtonI wonder why some people think the seats have been getting narrower.
Weren't there discussions about narrowing some components of the seats or frames on some a/c types because there were ADA access concerns about the narrowness of the aisles?
Bet Backshop's brother would remember this if so...
Paul of Covington n012944 same width as they were in 2003, same width that they were in 1992. Hmmm. I wonder why some people think the seats have been getting narrower.
n012944 same width as they were in 2003, same width that they were in 1992.
Hmmm. I wonder why some people think the seats have been getting narrower.
In today's world most people are getting wider.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
n012944 Sunnyland From what I hear they are smaller seats, A 737 is still a 737, and A320 is still an A320. They are still 6 abreast in coach, same width as they were in 2003, same width that they were in 1992.
Sunnyland From what I hear they are smaller seats,
From what I hear they are smaller seats,
A 737 is still a 737, and A320 is still an A320. They are still 6 abreast in coach, same width as they were in 2003, same width that they were in 1992.
Maybe the pitch is reduced? Less legroom? It seems like it to me and I weigh less than 30 years ago and have shrunk 3/4 inch in height.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
RunnerDude, I am like you, rode the CP Canadian and CN Super Continental in 1974 with friends, Flew to Winnepeg and trains from there. We did take a sleeper on CP, upper berths for them and lower for me, cost a little more but easier than climbing a ladder on moving train. We had a layover at Banff, and took Gray Line tour to Lake Louise where we had lunch at the Chateau. We did go one night to dinner at Banff Springs hotel too. Then on to Vancouver and took the ferry to Victoria, I don't remember riding a bus on the ferry, but I think there was a bus that ran from hotels to take you to docking area. We took Gray Line tours there too, and dinner one night at Empress. Returned to Vancouver to board CN train, we had the Daynighter coach similar to Amtrak Business Class, reclining seats with nice legrest. Steward took our dinner reservation at Vancouver station, but when we went to eat, he said we were late. I said no one came thru and called diner was open. Found out we were in Daynighter and said diner was only for first class, and he apologized. We had a snack cafe to eat in like Amtrak. I did write CN a letter about that when I came home, US trains always seated coach & Pullman together in diner, they might get seated first, but open to all. I rode many trains with parents on Dad's free train pass from Frisco RR. We also did a stopover at Jasper and were able to get a cabin at Jasper Park Lodge. They had free shuttles to the train station as CN owned the Lodge too. Glad I did it, because VIA uses the CN route which is not quite as scenic. Good luck GN Fan, and hope you can do it. I do not fly any longer, last time was 2003 coming back from San Fran with a friend, I had taken Empire Builder and Coast Starlight out there while she flew. From what I hear they are smaller seats, less leg room and bad things can happen like doggie dying in overhead and child sitting in vomit on seat that had not been cleaned up and her mom told by flight attendant "not my job". But it was someone's job to tell the cleaning crew they missed doing it.
GN-Fan
I loved your response to Runnerdude48--it definitely shut him down and I was getting pissed at reading his reply. You and your wife have definitely done more traveling than most, especially myself included.
I have always liked riding trains until the last few years. I have only ridden the Canadian once and it was the most enjoyable ride of my life. The scenery, food and the service in the dining car, 50's era rail equipment--I am a product of the fifties/early sixties train riders--and of course the Park car. I spent all of my waking time in the Park car dome, solarium and the bar when it was open. The rest of my time was spent in the diner or sleeping in my bedroom. The crew were spot on with their service and devotion to customer satisfaction--I can not say the same for Amtrak personnel unfortunately, there just isn't any comparison between Amtrak and VIA rail. One other aspect of riding the Canadian that caught me completely off guard and was a very pleasant surprise were the fellow travellers that I met on the train. Everyone that I talked with was educated, well mannered, clean and appropriately dressed.
I'm afraid that I do not have the experience to address your concerns about traveling with your wife and friends but like one responder said on this forum--call VIA directly and I'm sure they will answer every question that you may have about their train system. When I made my first reservation with VIA about 4 years ago I called directly instead of using their website and that was a pure joy in and of itself. The lady I talked with was extremely pleasant and knowledgeable about my trip and accomodations, as a matter of fact, after my reservation business was concluded, we conversed about 20 minutes or so about Canada, VIA rail, the train itself--it was like talking to an old friend that one hasn't heard from in years. I never once felt that she was trying to rush me along or was irritated that I had so many questions. Unfortunately, again, that is not the case with talking to an Amtrak agent.
I have a reservation this coming April 13th for another trip on the Canadian lv. Vancouver @ 1500 hrs and arr. Toronto on the 17th @ 14:20 hrs. This will probably be my last trip on any LDT as I am coming to the end of my love for train travel, mostly ruined by Amrak itself and by the American traveling public.
I am going to call VIA rail and inquire about the Canadian train since it is at this time cancelled until March 1st due to 1st Nation concerns about environmental issues. So that would be something to monitor for the near future as I have other Amtrak reservations made in connection with this trip on the Canadian. I hope that we both get to travel on the Canadian as planned it is well worth the the time and money.
Thanks for reading.
Charlie -- Ya, things change, usually without notice, so the dep time could change by an hour depending on whatever. We've made the SFO-MUC-TRS trip probably 4-5 times, once going via Frankfurt, and it's always been miles between gates. We'd arrive at the international terminal and have to go thru passport control (not security), then depart from a place somewhere between heaven and earth. I used to be a fast walker and could make 4 MPH on a mountainous Montana game trail when working as a forester, so I can somehat judge distances. Given that my speed is now 25% of what it once was, it still would be a 45-60 minute stroll to the next gate. I know, I tried once years ago and I worked up a pretty good sweat. So now we use the "cripple wagon" which works out just fine. As far as the train goes, that would be super. However, this trip will be around 35-38 days from start to finish, and I'm sure the old broad would squawk adding another day, even if we took a night train, which would defeat the scenery part. Then connections will ALWAYS be bad, and it'll be a hotel in Munich...that won't fly with either of us. We'll already need a hotel in Montreal due to the early dep time of #1, and a hotel in either Vancouver, Victoria, or both, and we'll want to spend a night in North Beach in Frisco, drinking Harvey Walbangers at the Visuvio Bar (an old hippie joint from the 70's) and eating garlic prime rib at the Stinking Rose. So we'll be sick of hotels by that time...and dog tired, wanting to go home. We'll be spending 10 days in Maine visiting relatives and another 10-14 days in the Bay area visiting our son, so it's more than a month living out of a suitcase....not much fun. Ya, and I never have mentioned the price of this fiasco. It's like I'll need Ft. Knox to pay for it, and we have little more than social security do do it on. Good luck to me...the financial wizard of the bankrupcy crowd.
Right now, my sister in-law in Maine is freaking out over the VIA cancellations, which is no biggie for me. But the scary part (sort on) is the virus. Everyone in town is going apeshit over it...the grocery stores are empty and some stores are closed here. Carnivale is cancelled in Venice, only 60 miles away. That's the Mardi Gras of Italy...a really big event. Well, hopefully both issues will be resolved by the time we leave, which will be in mid-ish April, scheduled for VIA #1 in early May. The mortality rate is low...arouund 3.5%, but we're both in the critical age range to croak because of it. Death won't be fun. So ya, it's a worry, but a distant one. We're not losing any sleep over it. Yet!
GN Fan: Those times were for an arbitrary date I picked but it could change. And it did show 14:35 and I know what time that is. Arrival and connecting in Strauss were in the same terminal, so no reason to go through security. Alternatively, you could take the train to Trieste. Beautiful scenery.
If you are traveling in the summer, it may be that the Park Car is for Prestige passengers only. In the off-season, they ask that the front row of the dome be reserved for Prestige, but if the seats are empty, use them, just be ready to let a Prestige patron have your seat.
Most coach passengers eat in the forward Skyline dome car, which serves less expensive meals than the dining cars. If you want to be sure to sit with your friends, get seating assignments for the same time in the same dining car. Before boarding (Vancouver or Toronto), be on the lookout in the sleeper patron lounge area for the service manager who will be making seating assignments. And, for those wanting the largest cabin for two, book by phone rather than online, and ask for Room F, which is about 18 inches bigger than the others. Have a great trip!!
I have ridden The Canadian many times.
1. You should have no problem eating together. I would suggest booking immediately and book both at the same time and ask to be in nearby cars. Check in together at the station and ask to eat together.
2. I believe early May is before high season. That being the case all sleeping car passengers will have access to the Park car dome.
3. You should be no more than about 4 cars from the dining car. Prestige is immediately forward of the Park car. You certainly may have food brought to you cheerfully. The food is excellent.
4. Cabin for two and discounted cabin for two are identical. The difference is price largely based on when you book. If you can get bedroom F it is actually a compartment and thus somewhat larger that the others in the same car.
Hope that is helpful to you.
GN Fan, are you planning this trip for anytime soon? Will the virus affect the plans?
York1 John
charlie hebdo Try the Lufthansa 2:35pm flight via Munich. 14 hours to Trieste.
Try the Lufthansa 2:35pm flight via Munich. 14 hours to Trieste.
We normally fly that airline because of the superior (for airlines) service, and at a cursory glance, your suggestion appears to be an excellent one. I do not remember this routing being there in the past, as usually we travel overnight because of the convenience of the dep-arr times. They have changed the format of their website, so I do not know how tight a layover there is in Munich. On previous trips, the gates were miles apart, and with me being with 2 hips replaced, and now a knee replacement, my creeking walk relegates us to the old people transport system....the shuttle carts. It's kinda nice because it's fast and we breeze thru passport control pretty fast, routed via the diplomats and disabled lanes.
As for the door-to-door timing, it's still going to be 18 hours, which is a lot better than 24. Thanks a LOT. And for what it's worth (probably not much), the plane departs at 13:35 which is 1:35 PM. It took me years to get used to the 24 hour clock. I always had to do a mental calculation, now after a decade and a half, it's kinda automatic now and I don't have to think about it much. It's kinda like eating beef. In the US we ate lots of it, and here their beef sucks. My wife got me into seafood 50 years ago, and now that we live here, I eat beef maybe once every few years, but fish and shellfish goes down my throat twice or so a week. But, there is a BIG difference between the preparation of the stuff here VS the US, and that's probably why Americans don't like fish much...they cannot cook it so so tastes good. Crawfish etoufee and Cajun fried catfish in Louisiana are two exceptions, as is Maine lobster in Maine and Alaskan crab legs wherever you can find it....Seattle and Frisco come to mind. So ya, thaks again for the heads-up on the flight.
Charlie Hebdo -- umm, it's a close to 24 hours as I care to count. I'm going "door to door" which includes an hour to SFO, 2 hours to check in, 12 flying hours to Munich, 6 hours to go thru passport control and endure a long layover in Munich, 1 flying hour to Trieste, an hour to deplane, pick up luggage, and go thru customs, than another hour from the airport to home. I could cut 30 minutes off the last leg by taking a taxi for 60 €, rather than a 3 € bus, but it still is 22.5 to 23 hours door to door. For me, that's close enough to 24 hours to call it a day. Besides, there's 9 hours in time zone differences between the two endpoints. I'm beat when I get home.
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I HAVE RIDDEN ONBOARD VIA'S PRESTIGE CLASS. Let me explain how Prestige Class works, train-wise:
There are only two modified Chateau-style Prestige sleepers per train. The Park observation car is at the very rear while the dining car bookends the two cars. Beyond this dining car are the Sleeper Plus accommodation-cars. There is another dining car for Sleeper Plus travelers further to the train's front as there may be several more Sleeper Plus cars, depending upon seasonal demand. After Sleeper Plus are Economy car(s), again depending upon seasonal demand.
Go to VIA Rail's website for information on railcar configurations, etc.. For me, it was a trip that I have well documented for those days when I will be resigned to a rocking chair, only to gaze on the images and narratives I had written of times earlier in my now-68 years. WOW!!!
“Things of quality have no fear of time.”
My wife and I rode Number 1 just last June.
If the consist makeup has not changed, if you do buy Prestige, their should be a diner placed against the prestige cars, so just a question of how many prestige cars there are and which you end up in. No more than a 2-3 car walk most likely.
No difference in the cabins, tell them to go for the discounted fare. Also, if they call Via they can ask to be placed in a car in the rear of the train, close to the prestige cars, might make it easier for you to meet up, and everyone would be assigned to the same diner.
The park car is restricted at times, but if you do buy prestige, I would bet there would not be a problem with them joining you.
Have a nice ride, and hope to hear a trip report afterwards!
One of the quotes above is mistakenly under my name.
The food service issue seems to be one of the hot issues. Over the past months, I have read comments that indicate some people would be happy with the dirty bathrooms, unpredicable schedules, and poorly supervised personnel, as long as they get a dining car.
GN_Fan That worked great until Airplane Anderson cut the food out and replaced it with rubber chicken and a plastic box, then sold off the Pacific Parlour cars that served a wonderful slow-cooked, bone-in leg of lamb. That’s all gone….so Canada here we come.
From Amtrak's beginning, it seems we have tried to run a passenger system with 1950s (1950s' ?) thinking.
I don't have insight on whether or not Anderson is the right man for the job, but at least we are getting some new ideas on needed changes.
n012944 NKP guy York1 They should be writing their Congressmen instead. A fat lot of good that would do. Congresssmen don't care at all about how Amtrak runs its trains. At least when people vent about trains in this forum they might get an intelligent response from someone who knows something about the topic. Ever write your Congressman and receive, weeks later, a form letter that barely addresses the subject you wrote about? And why is it out of the question for Anderson to inform Congress that their mandate to make dining cars profit centers for Amtrak is simply not achieveable or desirable without jeopardizing Congress' mandate to operate a national passenger rail system? If Congress didn't care about how Amtrak runs its trains, why did they bother to pass a mandate about dining not losing money? By the way, Congress did not pass a mandate that dining cars must be "profit centers", just eliminate all finacial losses on dining carservice by the end of 2020.
NKP guy York1 They should be writing their Congressmen instead. A fat lot of good that would do. Congresssmen don't care at all about how Amtrak runs its trains. At least when people vent about trains in this forum they might get an intelligent response from someone who knows something about the topic. Ever write your Congressman and receive, weeks later, a form letter that barely addresses the subject you wrote about? And why is it out of the question for Anderson to inform Congress that their mandate to make dining cars profit centers for Amtrak is simply not achieveable or desirable without jeopardizing Congress' mandate to operate a national passenger rail system?
York1 They should be writing their Congressmen instead.
A fat lot of good that would do.
Congresssmen don't care at all about how Amtrak runs its trains.
At least when people vent about trains in this forum they might get an intelligent response from someone who knows something about the topic.
Ever write your Congressman and receive, weeks later, a form letter that barely addresses the subject you wrote about?
And why is it out of the question for Anderson to inform Congress that their mandate to make dining cars profit centers for Amtrak is simply not achieveable or desirable without jeopardizing Congress' mandate to operate a national passenger rail system?
If Congress didn't care about how Amtrak runs its trains, why did they bother to pass a mandate about dining not losing money?
By the way, Congress did not pass a mandate that dining cars must be "profit centers", just eliminate all finacial losses on dining carservice by the end of 2020.
I'm glad to see you corrected that error. Breaking even on above rail costs of dining car service is possible with modern prep and correct menu charges. Of course some on here expect the equivalent of fine dining on the cheap, i.e. subsidized by taxpayers.
GN Fan: SFO to Trieste via Munich is less than 24 hours.
York1 It makes no difference to me whether it's Anderson who cut the food or Congress. The fact is that I refuse to spend big bucks to eat out of a shoe box. If Congress wants that, so be it, but I'm not going to have any part of it. It's akin to staying a night or two at the Hilton, and not having any hot water. And ya, it's happened to me, and I've never stayed at another Hilton. There's too many alternatives. In this case, I'll go via Canada. The hell with Anderson or Congress. GN_Fan That worked great until Airplane Anderson cut the food out and replaced it with rubber chicken and a plastic box, then sold off the Pacific Parlour cars that served a wonderful slow-cooked, bone-in leg of lamb. That’s all gone Not to argue a point, but Anderson only did what Congress directed him to do. Congress was the entity that demanded that the food service, by the end of 2020, could not lose money. There was no way a full-service dining car could break even without charging $40 for a hot dog.
It makes no difference to me whether it's Anderson who cut the food or Congress. The fact is that I refuse to spend big bucks to eat out of a shoe box. If Congress wants that, so be it, but I'm not going to have any part of it. It's akin to staying a night or two at the Hilton, and not having any hot water. And ya, it's happened to me, and I've never stayed at another Hilton. There's too many alternatives. In this case, I'll go via Canada. The hell with Anderson or Congress.
GN_Fan That worked great until Airplane Anderson cut the food out and replaced it with rubber chicken and a plastic box, then sold off the Pacific Parlour cars that served a wonderful slow-cooked, bone-in leg of lamb. That’s all gone
Not to argue a point, but Anderson only did what Congress directed him to do. Congress was the entity that demanded that the food service, by the end of 2020, could not lose money. There was no way a full-service dining car could break even without charging $40 for a hot dog.
PJS1 BaltACD What part of The Canadian's route is on Amtrak? The Amtrak data is in response to Midland Mikes comment, "So what's Congress going to do if the food service still loses money?" It in turn was a response to Anderson's role in fixing the food and beverage problem at Amtrak.
BaltACD What part of The Canadian's route is on Amtrak?
The Amtrak data is in response to Midland Mikes comment, "So what's Congress going to do if the food service still loses money?"
It in turn was a response to Anderson's role in fixing the food and beverage problem at Amtrak.
Which still begs the question since Congress has no say about VIA or the operation of the Canadian. Congress and Anderson will never fix anything on The Canadian (and I doubt they will fix anything on Amtrak).
OvermodAnderson, in my opinion, is doing something very clever -- he is finding relatively high-profile Scrooge-like things that the mandate implicitly calls for, like cancelling toys for tots, restricting access by private-car owners, and the various forms of cutting back food services ... and then sitting back to await the groundswell of pressure and influence of various sorts on Congress to do something about it.
Overmod, I agree. For 50 years, outside of the Northeast, very little was accomplished with Amtrak.
My opinion is that in 15-20 years, the U.S. may look back on Anderson as being responsible for finally moving Amtrak forward.
Of course, I might be wrong, and the U.S. may look back on Anderson as the one who killed long distance train service. However, I don't think so.
NKP guyCongresssmen don't care at all about how Amtrak runs its trains.
Tell that to the lady who represents the five people that wanted to use their Hoverounds on Amtrak earlier this year. She has a decidedly different opinion, and since she is actually in Congress I think it deserves more weight than yours.
You seem to assume "Congress" is monolithic and rational, and that it really cares that its 'mandate to stop losses' specifically relates to food service, as opposed to pinching some pennies from relatively unpopular line-items that might be used for more "nationally-important" programs or priorities.
In addition, there are often poor consequences for agency line and staff personnel who 'talk back' to Congresspeople or tell them stuff they'd rather not hear. I don't know if Wick Moorman's apparently sudden decline in favor involved any frank discussions with politicians, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised.
Anderson, in my opinion, is doing something very clever -- he is finding relatively high-profile Scrooge-like things that the mandate implicitly calls for, like cancelling toys for tots, restricting access by private-car owners, and the various forms of cutting back food services ... and then sitting back to await the groundswell of pressure and influence of various sorts on Congress to do something about it. This is really the only way the mandate will ... or even could ... be adapted over time to address any problem that can't be made 'self-supporting' by deadline time.
I'll grant you that writing or e-mailing a representative's office, especially with some form letter or diatribe, is highly unlikely to produce the 'intended' response. There are other ways to communicate, however, including via the press, or through other connections (including, not being cynical, contributions or 'party' participation). I am watching with some interest to see where the mandate goes as it comes time to be 'realized' ... will it be extended 'after the manner of PTC'? will parts of it be quietly excused or dropped? will definitions be revised or 'bent' so that some costs of food service, for example the strict union commissary system, get bundled in with other costs to appear less directly loss-producing? I think it also pays to keep tracking 'official' responses to Anderson's detail provocations to see which ones are 'accepted' and which are challenged.
Because depending on your letter and clarity they presume the same of you.
Far better to target a Congress person on the specific subcommittee of transportation that has staff that meets with Amtrak regularly. Even better still find the Amtrak State person in your state that monitors the Amtrak contracts and works with Amtrak on corridor improvements. Can tell you from personal experience not all of them know as much as the readers of this Forum about Amtraks past failures or past internal politics and they would benefit from some outside input. Best method of communication is to pick up the phone and call and you usually will be put in touch with a member of the Congress members staff that actually attends Amtrak Executive meetings and can take your issue to a specific Amtrak Executive as well as communicate their response back to you.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
York1They should be writing their Congressmen instead.
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