charlie hebdo Wrong train. I was thinking of the Winter Park Express (New Ski Train), which was privately operated prior to 2009, now Amtrak. In any case, it's likely that operating a tourist land cruise train would not violate federal law, especially if the archaic LD trains were d/c'd.
Wrong train. I was thinking of the Winter Park Express (New Ski Train), which was privately operated prior to 2009, now Amtrak.
In any case, it's likely that operating a tourist land cruise train would not violate federal law, especially if the archaic LD trains were d/c'd.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
charlie hebdoJoe and I weren't talking about regular passenger rail service. Rather, land cruises of a seasonal nature, maybe once or twice a week. Isn't there a Rocky Mountain tourist train now? This sort of operation is not illegal.
The Rocky Mountaineer is a Canadian operation.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
JPS1 oltmannd I don't think the loss of the the traditional diner is the ruination of Amtrak. Spot on! The ruination of Amtrak will be insisting on a business model that has lost touch with the market. Even a government sponsored money loser has to face reality at some point. Anderson should be applauded for the relatively small steps that have been implemented on his watch to make Amtrak better for most of its customers. Let's hope he continues to push for the necessary changes so that passenger rail can be relevant for the here and now. Not by gone days!
oltmannd I don't think the loss of the the traditional diner is the ruination of Amtrak.
Spot on!
The ruination of Amtrak will be insisting on a business model that has lost touch with the market. Even a government sponsored money loser has to face reality at some point.
Anderson should be applauded for the relatively small steps that have been implemented on his watch to make Amtrak better for most of its customers. Let's hope he continues to push for the necessary changes so that passenger rail can be relevant for the here and now. Not by gone days!
+1
alphas Correct. Existing law requires Amtrak to be sole provider of Interstate rail travel. Amtrak has agreed to exceptions for interstate commuter rail operations such as SEPTA but that's all.
Correct. Existing law requires Amtrak to be sole provider of Interstate rail travel. Amtrak has agreed to exceptions for interstate commuter rail operations such as SEPTA but that's all.
Joe and I weren't talking about regular passenger rail service. Rather, land cruises of a seasonal nature, maybe once or twice a week. Isn't there a Rocky Mountain tourist train now? This sort of operation is not illegal.
The ruination of Amtrak will come about by insisting on a business model that has lost touch with the market. Even a government sponsored money loser has to face reality at some point.
The dining car experience that Johnny lamenting the loss is generally wonderful and I wish it would hang around for a long time.
However, the world has changed and the "sit down at a table and eat meals" culture in the US has largely gone away. There is no shortage of "to go" food these days and fast food is no longer just a burger and fries from McDonalds. Ever eat at Panera or similar?
So, much as I lament the passing of the traditional dining car, I understand what's happening. The east coast overnight coach passengers just don't frequent the dining car. They often bring their own food and/or the cafe car has enough of what they need.
I don't think the loss of the the traditional diner is the ruination of Amtrak. It's more a reflection of what's been going on with food in the counrty for quite a while, now.
York1 243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc. charlie hebdo But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak. Has this ever been tried by a private company in the Amtrak era?
243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc.
LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc.
charlie hebdo But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
Has this ever been tried by a private company in the Amtrak era?
Believe it would require changes to the Amtrak authorization legislation!
charlie hebdoBut this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
York1 John
243129 charlie hebdo 243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc. Great idea. Joe, along with some ski trains in winter. But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak. You agree with me ???
charlie hebdo 243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc. Great idea. Joe, along with some ski trains in winter. But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
Great idea. Joe, along with some ski trains in winter. But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
You agree with me ???
Yep. Why not? I have an open mind and I thought it was a great idea.
I'm hearing too much BAH HUMBUG here.
Excellent points. Doubtful that many folks except a few here will ride an LD train to partake of fine dining, even were it offered. And if it were, they wouldn't pay the cost. And the taxpayers should not subsidize that.
This whole issue should probably be divided into two parts.
While I believe that better food service could prompt someone to pay more on a ticket to take a train for a several-hour trip, a long distance trip is another story.
On a LD train, better food service might make the trip more enjoyable, but I don't believe it will make LD trains any more desirable for the majority of travelers.
243129, thanks for posting survey.
I didn't understand the point about hazards and insurance premiums either. As long as the staff are competent, should be no problem.
Perhaps this could be of some help to improve service.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdEPw9pESxXZQa_qAG4F94fCexIEBIQurEABvILbFzsIv9b8g/viewform?fbclid=IwAR1WQcxzficY5QmkncsAOraPwUe_7HS_JRTSb4fcypcSOThV0i1xcHVImRs
...and this
https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/giving-amtrak-food-for-thought/
I don't understand the supposed points about convection ovens using more power or being more of a hazard somehow, and I can't quite figure out where this stuff about no convection ovens in sub shops comes from.
The earlier consumer versions of convection ovens were just high-temperature recirculating fans that took the 'stratified' hot air in a conventional oven, mixed it up, and circulated it across the food. Later versions work as I indicated, a bit like a glorified hair dryer, with the heating element(s) in a tube outside the oven cavity and a system of dispensing and return vents channelling the airflow. You can have systems of 'blend doors' controlling the circulation pattern depending on what is supposed to be in the oven, and as noted have other types of direct heat or microwave radiation present.
As with hair dryers, the elements used can have very high power density and spectrum shifted to far IR without problems with drying out or overcooking the food. There are in fact some Ronco-style 'convection oven' plastic appliances that use little more than a cheap controlled hairdryer element and fan to circulate their 'hot air'.
Anyone who has spent more than about 2 minutes in a Subway knows that the idea of not having a radiant-heat oven in a 20' converted-storefront 'sub shop' is a crock. Any convection oven poses less venting difficulty than that; in fact a simple metal mesh filter like the ones on those combined microwave/vent hoods will work just fine for most potential exhaust heat or vapor releases. The problem that causes fits is the use of a grill of some sort (including the little roasting elements that gave the old Burger King patties their flavor) which require grease traps, positive fan venting, etc. etc. etc. not found and not wanted in strip-mall rental space. While theoretically a 'finish-browning' element in a convection oven could be misused to vaporize large amounts of fats or oil and 'flash' the result on a recirc pass, proper oven design and control, if not training, would prevent that issue.
Back when airlines served meals, I thought they used convection ovens to heat the hot part of the meal. My toaster oven is a convection oven. Don't understand the suggestion that convection ovens are fire hazard or an insurance problem.
CMStPnP charlie hebdo I don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with? I suspect they use more power, generate more heat..... and they are an increased fire hazzard which might trigger additional insurance or laws regarding how they are housed as well as ventilation. You'll notice in some of the various sub shops they avoid heating elements such as convective ovens to avoid the added insurance or leasing costs. Jimmy Johns is an example, Firehouse Subs uses boiling water to heat the innards of a sandwich which is in a plastic sealed packet.........that they then squeeze out onto the sandwich like tooth paste after it is heated. Firehouse subs are pretty good tasting as gross as it is to watch them prep the sandwich.
charlie hebdo I don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with?
I suspect they use more power, generate more heat..... and they are an increased fire hazzard which might trigger additional insurance or laws regarding how they are housed as well as ventilation. You'll notice in some of the various sub shops they avoid heating elements such as convective ovens to avoid the added insurance or leasing costs. Jimmy Johns is an example, Firehouse Subs uses boiling water to heat the innards of a sandwich which is in a plastic sealed packet.........that they then squeeze out onto the sandwich like tooth paste after it is heated. Firehouse subs are pretty good tasting as gross as it is to watch them prep the sandwich.
They use 20% less energy. They are hotter by 25 degrees but cook faster and more evenly.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-a-convection-oven/
If Deutsche Bahn can use them without problems, why not here?
Not a fan of either Jimmy Johns or Firehouse!
charlie hebdoI don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with?
Fully programmable microwave + convection ovens have been a 'thing' for some time, and in my experience adding a 'broiling' finishing element that does not damage magnetron output is not a difficult exercise. Keep in mind that the 'convection' feature is little more complex that a 'sous vide' stirrer with temperature control, using air instead of liquid...
Expanding this to the type of 'gang' convection oven used in rapid foodservice is more of an exercise, of course, and the alternative markets for such a device if built are relatively limited at present. In my opinion, though, they would have dramatic advantages for both fast-food and fast-casual businesses if programmed and used right. Their use in quality 'mobile' prep is a bully pulpit for more widespread adoption and use.
It was my understanding that at the beginning of this year the 'new' Viewliner diners were being fitted, or retrofitted in some cases, with gang convection ovens that could heat 24 portions at a time. Whether that includes programmability or individual heat/timing control by 'slot' I don't know... but it should not be easy to provide 'bleed doors' or a similar arrangement to give that functionality.
I don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with?
Wasn't it RR Young that stated hogs got better handling than passengers?
Slop ths hogs, er passengers! No need to treat them like humans.
When the railroads ran passenger service, they used full dining cars with chefs who made first-class meals. The railroads dropped passenger service because they were losing money.
Would it actually help Amtrak to spend the money to change over to airline-styled food service? Would more people ride long distance trains and pay more money because of better food service?
I guess, with my limited knowledge of railroads, if I comment on this subject, it's that in a country our size, with our highway system, low gas prices, fast and efficient airlines, etc., do we keep spending money on the dream of having long distance trains?
Anderson is mocked a lot on this forum, and maybe he deserves it. But at least he is trying to do something to change a bad situation.
I live 40 miles from an Amtrak station that, once a day, I can board a train and get to a limited number of places. I also live 40 miles from an airport that I can get flights many times a day to nearly every major and minor city in the country very quickly.
As far as an RFP for cleaning and vacuuming Superliners between runs, it may depend on what's in existing labor contracts regarding outsourcing certain tasks..
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