7j43kNow. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials.
Works for me.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I agree with Electroliner 1935.
Whether it is in a railroad dining car, or a cruise ship dining room, or sitting next to someone on an airplane, start a chat with them.
I usually ask people where they live to get the ball rolling. Works most times. Not always! But most times.
In the 60 years or more that I have travelled by train, plane, etc., I have had a handful of bad outcomes in striking up a conversation with a stranger. But the bad times have been offset by hundreds of pleasant conversations.
One rule! Stay away from politics and religion.
n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting.
Every one is a stranger until you get to know them. And you are a stranger to them. I find if you try, most people are friendly. I have always found that most of the people I have met when seated with them are interesting and nice to talk with. I have had a few that I found that didn't want to talk but they were exceptions. Talk to them about where they are from or where and why they are traveling to. What is it like where they live. And being a railfan and knowledge of most RR's, I know many small towns and find that sparks interest. On one trip returning, to Chicago on the CZ, a nice lady at my table said I wouldn't know the town she was from, POLO, IL. Which I did know of. (A very small town NNW of Dixon IL) And I knew an individual from the town so that started an enjoyable conversation. I find most people are interesting. But then I was born before most people on the train.
I believe that preconceptions can stand in the way of having good relations with others. Our country is being torn apart by the (Them vs Us) climate.
daveklepper Will a Milleneum speak up and confirm or deny the "milleneums dont like dining cars"...?
Will a Milleneum speak up and confirm or deny the "milleneums dont like dining cars"...?
I missed being a Milennial by 2 years, however my wife is 5 years younger than me, so she is labeled as one. She hates dining cars. The communal tabel is not something either of us enjoy. Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. She finds the food bland and overpriced, as do I.
An "expensive model collector"
In the fall of 1971, I rode from Oakland to Houston and New Orleans; there was an Aoutomat car all the way, and I ate some meals in such--sitting down in the cars. I really preferred eating in the diners, but I wanted to sample the automats.
Johnny
I experienced a little of SP's anti-passenger train effort in 68 when I took my family on a Chicago-SF-Seattle-Chicago vacation (CZ, Cascade, Empire Builder) The SP had a baggage car on the Cascade and the State regulators made them provide INTRA-state check baggage but SP would not provide INTER-state baggage service. Train had a baggage car but all of the pullman cars' luggage was stacked up on one side of the vestibule. Otherwise, the service was excellent. SP didn't save any money because they had a baggage man and a car. But they inconvienced the employees and passengers. Nice dining car and good food.
ATSFGuy A LD train will sure be different without the dining car. When the dining car does vanish, where do millenails eat then? The dining car could have been renamed or modernized instead of being removed altogether. This goes back to when Southern Pacific was trying to downgrade passenger service by eliminating the diners and changing the schedules around.
A LD train will sure be different without the dining car.
When the dining car does vanish, where do millenails eat then?
The dining car could have been renamed or modernized instead of being removed altogether.
This goes back to when Southern Pacific was trying to downgrade passenger service by eliminating the diners and changing the schedules around.
Actually, SP was ahead of its time. Back in the mid-sixties, I rode the City of San Francisco from the Bay Area to Chicago.
At least once, I visited the Automat Car.
It was open 24 hours. It had fluorescent lighting. All night. And maybe some formica table tops. And maybe seating (I don't recall). It SEEMED to be painted SP grey on the inside, but that might have just been the "aura". Food in little plastic containers you ate with little plastic utensils. There were paper napkins, if you needed them. And trash bins, to dump your "recycle". No soft padded surfaces. No decoration at all, if I recall properly. There probably was a microwave.
Now. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials.
Who knew? Southern Pacific thought of the solution 50 years ahead!
Oh, yes. Millenials like to have picnic tables and benches in their restaurants, now. SP missed that one.
Ed
https://nypost.com/2019/09/22/millennials-make-amtrak-nix-overly-cozy-dining-cars-on-penn-station-trains/
Millenials don't like dining cars. So they will disappear on eastern LD trains, including those to Florida.
I willing to see how eliminating the traditional dining car will hold up in the long term.
Acela is in the northeast corridor, where Amtrak trains run at 100-150mph. Outside of the NEC, LD Amtrak trains make money, but lose it at the same time.
Would you pay over $100 for an Amtrak ticket to go from Los Angeles to Chicago? I certainly wouldn't.
daveklepperBut again, Acela type food and service is certainly a better way of going in today's economy than the traditional way. I think we agree on that.
I'm not sure we can equate Acela with LD trains. People are willing to pay more for Acela, sometimes two to three times more than for a regular train. Part of that may be the food, although I think it's only a small part.
Would American travelers be willing to pay a much higher ticket price to take a LD train instead of flying? Enough people to fill an entire train? I may be wrong, but I don't think so.
York1 John
jps1. I doubt that any of the possible providers of the station restaurant business I have suggested are even aware of the possibility. Anderson's lack of response to my letter to him may be do to a staff member short-stoppiing it as a threat to his or her own little empire or Anderson's not wishing to share control with outside providers. I tried writing Mariott, but their mailing address seems to be a secret, not available on their website, only email addresses for complaints, booking, employment. Ended up writing the Marriott hotel closest and asked the manager to forward! No reply so far. I'll admit to also writing Taco Bel.
But again, Acela type food and service is certainly a better way of going in today's economy than the traditional way. I think we agree on that.
oltmannd Long, western LD trains with lots of sleeper space, catering to vaction travellers with good service - and high prices!
daveklepper JPS1: I've already indicated how this food-and-beveage service loss could become a profit center, by making the on-board service a fraction of the take-out and delivary business of profitable and broad-spectrum station restaurants. Short of that, there is no reason why the qualitiy food system that satisfies Acela passengers cannot also be applied to long-distance service with substantiasl cost savings over tradiional dining car operation.
If your scheme were sound, potential operators would have submitted proposals to implement it. They haven't for a good reason. It is not workable.
Operators with pockets deep enough to make it work have teams of analysts that spend most of their time looking for market opportunities. I doubt any of them have shown up on Amtrak’s doorsteps with an offer to take over its food and beverage operations, which last year lost $38 million.
The world that you and I grew up in does not exist any longer. I am 80. Whether it is long-distance trains or down town eateries in railroad stations, it is over. And the sooner people realize it, the sooner the country can stop wasting its limited resources on services most people don't want.
100 years ago, it made sense to store, prepare and cook food with an on-board staff.
That makes zero sense these days. It barely makes sense to have sleeping accomodations for any staff on the train. Why not have everyone rotate on and off with the engineer and conductor?
I think Amtrak's move toward flash frozen, reheated meals make a lot of sense on the overnight trains. Let's see how it pans out. One improvment I would make would be to let the coach passengers pre-purchase an onboard meal when they make their reservation.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
JPS1 charlie hebdo Here's a pretty good overview of Amtrak's dilemma by a guy who has ridden most of its LD trains. https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2019/09/10/amtrak-long-haul-cuts/ The only way Anderson could make a serious dent in the long-distance trains, I suspect, would be through a commission similar to the Base Closure Commission. Or he could push to reduce the losses imposed on Amtrak by the long-distance trains by restructuring them. Eliminate the sleepers in favor of a business class cars similar to the accommodations on overseas flights and the dining car in for better options in the lounge cars.
charlie hebdo Here's a pretty good overview of Amtrak's dilemma by a guy who has ridden most of its LD trains. https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2019/09/10/amtrak-long-haul-cuts/
https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2019/09/10/amtrak-long-haul-cuts/
The only way Anderson could make a serious dent in the long-distance trains, I suspect, would be through a commission similar to the Base Closure Commission.
Or he could push to reduce the losses imposed on Amtrak by the long-distance trains by restructuring them. Eliminate the sleepers in favor of a business class cars similar to the accommodations on overseas flights and the dining car in for better options in the lounge cars.
Anderson recently said that vision for LD trains is "experiential, like the Canadian". He said that there likely will be 5 or 10 of them... He also noted that the typical coach passenger trip on LD train is fairly short. He's also mentioned restructuring routes to be more corridor oriented.
If you add all this up and fill in the gaps you get:
Long, western LD trains with lots of sleeper space, catering to vaction travellers with good service - and high prices!
LD trains in the east withering and being replaced with day train service and, perhaps, greater frequency.
1950's businessman's streamliner schedules being relegated to the scrap heap.
JPS1: I've already indicated how this food-and-beveage service loss could become a profit center, by making the on-board service a fraction of the take-out and delivary business of profitable and broad-spectrum station restaurants. Short of that, there is no reason why the qualitiy food system that satisfies Acela passengers cannot also be applied to long-distance service with substantial cost savings over tradiional dining car operation.
Deggesty In the 1950's, even with higher prices for the meals than thoset restaurants charged, the railroads were losing money on diner service.
True. But I see no justification in asking the taxpayers to underwrite a sit-down meal for an Amtrak passenger.
A valid argument can be made for the long-distance trains to serve communities with no other public transport options, although I don't believe they make any economic sense. But asking the taxpayers to buy the riders a sit-down meal on the train is over the top.
In the 1950's, even with higher prices for the meals than thoset restaurants charged, the railroads were losing money on diner service.
Lansdowne John I don’t see why Amtrak can’t provide good hot meals with table service.
Think Amtrak's $38 million loss per year on its food and beverage services. Think further that 95 per cent - $36.1 million - is attributable to the long-distance trains.
If you, along with the other nostalgia buffs, tell Amtrak your willing to cover the fully allocated cost of sit-down meals ala 1950s streamliners, I am sure Amtrak will offer you the option.
Read with interest all of the comments, and agree with some and not others. People don't often do fancy sit down meals now anywhere. But good quality food is expected. I was recently on Texas Eagle, Zephyr and SW Chief in coach with friends or railfan groups. Ate in diner on everyone and it was still the same as I had remembered from trips with parents or LD trains I rode in early 2000's. CONO does not have that any longer, you had choice of sandwich, salad and another entree, all microwaved, I remember reading about the regional specialties they used to serve and was disappointed to find out they were no longer served. I was in roomette on those trips so meals were included. I would be OK with box or bag for breakfast or lunch, but like a nicer meal for dinner, and prefer to be served, gets me out among other people from my roomette, sitting in lounge is not the same, but you can talk with your dinner companions. I think Anderson was brought in to overhaul the system, but sometimes he seems to be going too far and totally out of touch with how a RR differs from a plane. I had some delicious meals on TWA flights "back in the day", even 2 meals going overseas, but not that case today. My last flight was in 2003 flying back with friend from San Fran and it was meal in a bag. I had went out by train on the Builder and Starlight and met her. So it was not the same on there either. I will always travel by train as I grew up with and loved it, and want decent meals, in a box, bag or served. That is the important thing. And coach passengers should be allowed into the diner too as long as they want to pay the price for a meal. It was equal service in the Pullman days, they might have gotten seated before us but we could eat the same food. CN restricted their diner to sleepers only, we were coach and had to eat in cafe car. I wrote CN a letter about it, as never restricted in US, they did reply and said it was their policy. It had gotten messed up because a steward took our dinner reservations at Vancouver station and when we showed up, saying there was no call for diner to open, he said he was sorry, if we were in coach we could not eat in diner. They needed to have a sign posted or tell you before you boarded, so you would, he was embarrased that he had thought we were sleepers and we were not. We were in a Daynighter coach like Business class today, paid more for reclining seat and more space than regular coach.
Here's a pretty good overview of Amtrak's dilemma by a guy who has ridden most of its LD trains.
As to meal service, the last really good meal I ate on Amtrak was breakfast going into Los Angeles from New Orleans in 1980. My next trip begam in Salt Lake City in the spring of 1982. I went to the meal car, looked at the menu, and asked for coffee, expecting to have a good breakfast out of Ogden--until I found that the Oakland-Chicago meal car had nothing better, and you were expected to pay up front (just like in a fast-food house). It was that way on to Rensselaer, where a diner-lounge provided meal service into Boston--and that was good service.
Before leaving Washington for Pomona (Greensboro), I ate in the substitute station, knowing it could not be worse than what was offered on board, which was all that was available on down to New Orleans. The meal service going up to Chicago from New Orleans overnight was comparable to the lunch I had between Rensselaer and Boston.
I usualy ride Amtrak’s longer distance trains even though I live near Philadelphia I do not usually ride the Northeast regional trains. I have to say the kind of dinning changes being made make me not to want to ride today’s long distance service. While I don’t expect the old fashion first class dinner of years past. I don’t see why Amtrak can’t provide good hot meals with table service. At home I enjoy well made frozen dinners that are tasty and have both a main item and usually two side items all in one microwaveable dish. Why can’t Amtrak serve these type of meals in their new dinners? These meals are usually low priced and if keep frozen till used would not envolve wasted food not sold on a trip. I also feel it is not right to keep coach passengers out of the dinner. For example some of my trips used the Empire Builder to Minneapolis.Since this is non overnight trip from Chicago I travel coach and had dinner on this train every time as a coach passenger. The lounge car menu is not a good substitute for a good sit down dinner. This shortsighted policy reminds me of what the Southern Pacific did to get passengers off their long distance trains. I recommend we write to our Congress people and Senators to complain about these policies and remind them if ridership is falling on long distance trains this is a big reason besides poor timekeeping that keeps people from taking the train.
re: humbug,
Welcome to the forum.
oltmannd charlie hebdo Wrong train. I was thinking of the Winter Park Express (New Ski Train), which was privately operated prior to 2009, now Amtrak. In any case, it's likely that operating a tourist land cruise train would not violate federal law, especially if the archaic LD trains were d/c'd. Or, if those "cruise train" cars were tacked onto Amtrak trains. I'm sure Amtrak has a price they'd do the haulage...
charlie hebdo Wrong train. I was thinking of the Winter Park Express (New Ski Train), which was privately operated prior to 2009, now Amtrak. In any case, it's likely that operating a tourist land cruise train would not violate federal law, especially if the archaic LD trains were d/c'd.
Wrong train. I was thinking of the Winter Park Express (New Ski Train), which was privately operated prior to 2009, now Amtrak.
In any case, it's likely that operating a tourist land cruise train would not violate federal law, especially if the archaic LD trains were d/c'd.
Or, if those "cruise train" cars were tacked onto Amtrak trains. I'm sure Amtrak has a price they'd do the haulage...
...as they did with the AOE, for a while.
Yep, you're always right.
charlie hebdoWrong train. I was thinking of the Winter Park Express (New Ski Train), which was privately operated prior to 2009, now Amtrak. In any case, it's likely that operating a tourist land cruise train would not violate federal law, especially if the archaic LD trains were d/c'd.
Was not a 'cruise' train - before or after Amtrak. Wasn't long distance either.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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