[quote user="Deggesty"] Maybe we will go back to open sections
"Go back" is certainly the correct term.
As for dorms, oltmannd, ever notice how some people just can't seem to get out of college?
zugmannIf it's just the millenials... how come there's very few restaurants that seat you across from strangers?
I'm guessing it's because: 1. most restaurants have more than eight or ten tables and a maximum of 40 seats; and 2. trains have a captive market; where else can passengers (customers) eat? As for restaurants, I can always go to another one. And 3. Sharing tables has been traditional train culture. I never wrote out my order in a restaurant because that's not been (until now, I know) traditional restaurant culture.
No need to disparage my view of Millenials because many of them were my students in high school. I am proud of my former "kids" and many stay in touch with me. I have lunch with about a dozen or so each year and we all seem to like and understand each other.
Some of my best friends are Millenials.
NKP guy Okay. I think I'm understanding the expectations that Millenials insist on fastening onto the rest of us. There are to be no dining cars serving meals where personal interaction is required. Just strap on the earphones and eat cold or nuked food out of a cardboard box without even looking up at others. But did Amtrak do research to find out what sort of toilets Millenials desire? I mean, the new sleeping cars will have common toilets, with only bedrooms having in-room facilities. So, it appears that schlepping down the corridor any number of times to use (or waiting to use) a common (translation: filthy) toilet will be perfectly fine with the same people who can't bear to eat at a table with strangers. Really? I wouldn't have guessed that.
Okay. I think I'm understanding the expectations that Millenials insist on fastening onto the rest of us. There are to be no dining cars serving meals where personal interaction is required. Just strap on the earphones and eat cold or nuked food out of a cardboard box without even looking up at others.
But did Amtrak do research to find out what sort of toilets Millenials desire? I mean, the new sleeping cars will have common toilets, with only bedrooms having in-room facilities.
So, it appears that schlepping down the corridor any number of times to use (or waiting to use) a common (translation: filthy) toilet will be perfectly fine with the same people who can't bear to eat at a table with strangers.
Really? I wouldn't have guessed that.
About the only difference between the roomettes in the new cars and open sections is that you have a door and a wash basin in the room. Actually, you could have a little more luggage in a section than you can in an Amtrak Viewliner roomette.
Johnny
As to eating with a stranger at the same table in a restaurant, I have done that in Chicago (I do not remember the name of the restaurant, but it was recommeded in a Triple A guidebook)--I arrived, without a reservation, at lunch time, and when another man came in, the two of us were placed at the same table. As I recall, we did have some conversation. Of course, this was 51 years ago.
NKP guy Okay. I think I'm understanding the expectations that Millenials insist on fastening onto the rest of us. There are to be no dining cars serving meals where personal interaction is required. Just strap on the earphones and eat cold or nuked food out of a cardboard box without even looking up at others.
If it's just the millenials... how come there's very few restaurants that seat you across from strangers?
Then again, if they didn't blame it on millenials, how could you trigger older generations?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
It's true. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/11/coliving/414531/
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Security in Israel is tight. Security is separate from fare-control. Just to enter the railroad station, you have to go through security. This is straightforward, with bags going through an X-ray device sepately from the personal scanners. Often there is a security policeman present with a dog on a leash, presumasbly to smell somehing suspicious.
Although the large city bus terminals have security similar to the railroad stations, security at local stops is enirely on the wisdom of the individual drivers. who have security training. On Jerusalem Light Rail, the roving security people are also the Rav-Card and validated cardboard ticket inspectors.
Things are a bit more relaxed on fare control. For example, on one of my trips I got hungry, and at Haifa Central, asked the gate attendent whether I could exit to buy lunch and return without going throught the ticket-reading turnstiles (used on both entrance to the platforms and exit, in addition to possible ticket inspectioni onboard), and he ansered the Hebrew for "of course," and opened the manufal gate for me to exit and to return to the platform with my sandwich and soda. The tickets have now been replaced by the reading of the Rav-Card, the magnetic plastic card used by all the public bus comopanies (to be extended shortly to the Arab bus lines which still use cash and cardboard multi-ride. light rail, and the railroad When you buy transportation at the railroad station, either at a ticket window or at a cash-or-credit-card accepting machine, the entrance and exit information is inserted into your rav-card and it serves as the ticket for the journey, including a go and return if that is what you bought.
zugmann Sitting at a counter is different. People are next to you. Sitting across from someone is just strange if you don't know them. I think many non-millenials would agree with that.
Sitting at a counter is different. People are next to you. Sitting across from someone is just strange if you don't know them. I think many non-millenials would agree with that.
Exactly. I don't think there is anything weird about that, just generational preferences. Things come and go. Times change. The British travel group, Thomas Cook, just went out of business after about 160 years.
CSSHEGEWISCH I get the impression that millennials have one thing in common with Sheldon Cooper, Ph. D. They prefer social media of all sorts because it allows them to interact without the inconvenience of actual contact with other humans.
I get the impression that millennials have one thing in common with Sheldon Cooper, Ph. D. They prefer social media of all sorts because it allows them to interact without the inconvenience of actual contact with other humans.
A more rational explanation is that from their POV, they prefer their voluntary social interactions to be with people they actually know, whether in person or online, not contrived interactions.
Dave, is the security tight on the trains in Israel? Do you pass through any security checks before boarding?
York1 John
n01, I asked a question and it was answered. I accept the answer, and local experience here does substantiate it. Should have thought about that before asking.
I also seem to be an exception in not wishing to participate in Social Media Internet, prefering interest-focused (trains, aiudio-acoustics) forums like this for my limited internet time.
I recall a T-shirt on a young Israelil-born student here with the English:
Now you've read this, and that is enough social interaction for the day.
daveklepper Do you really trust Amtrak's market research on this?
Do you really trust Amtrak's market research on this?
Why wouldn't you? Just because you don't want to believe it?
An "expensive model collector"
I cannot claim and do not clain that my own preferences are those of the majority of Amtrak's passengers now. I do believe that quality food and drink and service is necessary and should be provided in the least subsidized way as possible.
And my station restaurant idea does work just as well with cafe-car take to your sseat approach as it does with the traditional dining car approach.
For the record. Israel Railways had dining cars up to about 50 years ago, only on the Jerusalem - Haifa trains, the only over-two-hour trains at the time. Other trains were servred with rolling carts, having hot and cold drinks and cold sandwiches and snack food. The introduction of double-deck equipment made the rolling car approach impractical. Despite higher speeds, there are now longer journey times for a single train, about 3-1/2 hours Beir Sheva - Naharia, non-stop or one-stop Tel Aviv Haifa. What we have now are quality food providers over-the-counter, quality sufficient to attract local patronage, at nearly every station, with most seating consisting of facing seats with an odd-shaped table giving the window seats full tables and the aisle seats tapered tables There are circular indentations to keep cups from sliding, and a trash bag on a wall hook under the table. A good 85% of the seats are this way, on both double-deck and single-deck, locomotive-hauled and diesel-mu equipment. So one is encouraged to eat, but must buy before boarding. Now, there is not even drinking water available onboard! The Arlozoroff ("Central" only according to the Railway) Station has four tske-out establishmenets, with two providing seats and tables as well. One can get, Shishkebob meat, pizza, salads, yourgurt, tuna sandiches, egg sandwiches, and any soft drink one may wish.
Regarding drinking water, many Israelis and nearly all tourists carry a bottlo of water on all travels. I seem to be an exception.
I trust their market resesrch a lot more than the preferences of folks on here. If this were a sample, it would be very unrepresentative. The few under 50 guys on here who posted agree with Amtrak's research.
charlie hebdo I repeat. Amtrak wants to attract Millenials, as you can't grow with catering to the elderly and railfans. Amtrak did market research. Millenials and others don't want to rub elbows in forced conviviality in a dining car experience. If those of you on here demand a 1950s experience, then pay for it, but don't expect taxpayers to subsidize your nostalgia.
I repeat. Amtrak wants to attract Millenials, as you can't grow with catering to the elderly and railfans. Amtrak did market research. Millenials and others don't want to rub elbows in forced conviviality in a dining car experience. If those of you on here demand a 1950s experience, then pay for it, but don't expect taxpayers to subsidize your nostalgia.
That is a fact a few on here can't seem to come to terms with.
BaltACD n012944 Electroliner 1935 n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. Every one is a stranger until you get to know them. Yep, and I don't eat with people until I get to know them. And yet we do hundreds of routine human undertakings daily without knowing who we are dealing with. We have no idea who we are on the roads with at any point in time.
n012944 Electroliner 1935 n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. Every one is a stranger until you get to know them. Yep, and I don't eat with people until I get to know them.
Electroliner 1935 n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. Every one is a stranger until you get to know them.
n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting.
Every one is a stranger until you get to know them.
Yep, and I don't eat with people until I get to know them.
And yet we do hundreds of routine human undertakings daily without knowing who we are dealing with.
We have no idea who we are on the roads with at any point in time.
Not a social experience
BaltACD We have no idea who we will be associating with when we enter a new job situation.
We have no idea who we will be associating with when we enter a new job situation.
Apples to oranges. I do stuff everyday at work that I would not do in my free time. Amazing what one will do for a paycheck.
BaltACD We have little idea of who our seat mates will be when attending a sporting or other form of cultural event.
We have little idea of who our seat mates will be when attending a sporting or other form of cultural event.
Again, not a daily experience, or a social one either
BaltACD Going to Waffle House you have no idea who will be sitting at the counter next to you - and eating doesn't get any more basic than Waffle House.
Going to Waffle House you have no idea who will be sitting at the counter next to you - and eating doesn't get any more basic than Waffle House.
Never have been to one, so I would not know. However if I did I would wait for a table, and eat without a stranger next to me.
BaltACD The human condition is a continual series of meetings with unknown people. Why should dinner on a diner be anything less?
The human condition is a continual series of meetings with unknown people. Why should dinner on a diner be anything less?
I don't eat with strangers in my daily life, I don't share a table with strangers when I go to a restaurant. Why should dinner in the diner be different from that?
NKP guy Sorry, but the argument that people object to eating with others, especially at a common table, just doesn't wash.
Sorry, but the argument that people object to eating with others, especially at a common table, just doesn't wash.
Someone asked a Millennial's opinion on a railroad's dinner, and I gave my wifes opinion. Thank you for telling me how I choose to do things and my opinion and wife's is incorrect. It hold "wash" just fine. It seems to jive with what people now want, get with the times. Amtrak should not be snapshot of life in the 50's, despite what foamers like yourself desire.
NKP guy So what on earth is the big deal about being in a dining car than United's first class?
So what on earth is the big deal about being in a dining car than United's first class?
No one excepts conversation in an airplane. Put on your earphones, eat you food and do your thing. Not really hard to understand, unless you don't want to understand it.
Once in a great while, two people sat across the table from my wife and me--and had no interest in talking with us. Even rarer was there someone across the table with whom we did not want to talk. Usually, we had, and I still have, pleasant conversations in diners.
Once, when we were crossing Canada, we had conversations with a couple from Germany. I have also had table conversations with people from Australia, England, and Scotland, as well from Canada. A greeting that is appropriate for the time of the day can lead to interesting conversations.
In Acela's first class I might be assigned to a pair of seats facing another pair of seats with a table in between us. If I want to eat, I do so rubbing elbows with my seatmate, whether known to me or not.
On airplanes, if I'm in first class and lucky enough to get a meal, guess what? I'm forced to dine with a stranger next to me and close to me.
So what on earth is the big deal about being in a dining car with more table and elbow room than either on Acela or United's first class?
We have no idea who we are on the roads with at any point in time. We have no idea who we will be associating with when we enter a new job situation. We have little idea of who our seat mates will be when attending a sporting or other form of cultural event. Going to Waffle House you have no idea who will be sitting at the counter next to you - and eating doesn't get any more basic than Waffle House.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In my career, I talked to people all day, every day. I talked to people with whom I didn't want to talk. Then, when I got home, I talked to my wife.
I've retired. I don't want to talk to anyone.
I just got home from a nice vacation. My wife did not go. I hiked national parks in the western U.S. By myself. I didn't even talk to trees, animals, or the wind.
I drove long distances by myself. I spent nights in motels by myself.
It was glorious.
If you do not like me, then make me sit at a table on a train making small talk.
zugmann 7j43k Now. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials. Works for me.
7j43k Now. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials.
Works for me.
Works fine for me also.
Most of us are not Millenials. But I saw and conversed with many everyday as a professor and still see some in clinical practice. Judging from those conversations, I don't think many want a long, involved meal with strangers in a traditional dining car setting. And Amtrak is trying to attract a younger and younger-thinking clientele. I am quite certain Amtrak did marketing focus groups and other research on millenials. Some on here might not like that, but as others have said, Amtrak's mission is not to provide subsidized land cruises for the few who have the time or for rail fans and nostalgia buffs.
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