charlie hebdo BaltACD blue streak 1 Editorial stating Amtrak may loose congressional support if Anderson persists in eliminating LD trains. https://www.railjournal.com/opinion/has-amtrak-placed-itself-in-jeopardy Which is probably Anderson's intention. Wanna make a gentleman's bet on that?
BaltACD blue streak 1 Editorial stating Amtrak may loose congressional support if Anderson persists in eliminating LD trains. https://www.railjournal.com/opinion/has-amtrak-placed-itself-in-jeopardy Which is probably Anderson's intention.
blue streak 1 Editorial stating Amtrak may loose congressional support if Anderson persists in eliminating LD trains. https://www.railjournal.com/opinion/has-amtrak-placed-itself-in-jeopardy
https://www.railjournal.com/opinion/has-amtrak-placed-itself-in-jeopardy
Which is probably Anderson's intention.
Wanna make a gentleman's bet on that?
Never been a better! Books don't make their money off me.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
blue streak 1Editorial stating Amtrak may loose congressional support if Anderson persists in eliminating LD trains. https://www.railjournal.com/opinion/has-amtrak-placed-itself-in-jeopardy
Editorial stating Amtrak may loose congressional support if Anderson persists in eliminating LD trains.
Wow! Thanks for the report.
daveklepper Did you write a complaint to Amtrak? Why not? Which trains did you use?
Did you write a complaint to Amtrak? Why not?
Which trains did you use?
This is going to be long:
Dave, to tell the truth, it never entered my mind to write to Amtrak. I figured I had learned a valuable lesson, and would know to tip a redcap if it ever happened again.
1. We got to Chicago on the City of New Orleans. We came from New Orleans. This was before Christmas, 1989, so we knew the trains would be crowded.
2. We were late getting into Chicago, and missed the train west. I do not know the name of the train we took from Chicago to Hastings, NE. Amtrak put us up in a hotel in downtown Chicago, gave us a voucher for meals at the hotel, and paid cabfare to and from the station.
3. The train encountered some record low temperatures. By the time we reached Hastings, the temperature was 25° below zero. The toilets on the train had not worked since Iowa.
The trip back was even more interesting.
1. We traveled back to Chicago and got onto the City of New Orleans. In Memphis, we picked up a large group of football fans who were on their way to New Orleans for the Sugar Bowl.
2. In southern Mississippi, the train stopped. We were told there was a derailment ahead. We sat for several hours. Believe it or not, the train backed up to a town. We were told that had not been done before. At the town, the crew brought boxes of Kentucky Fried Chicken to give to each passenger.
3. After sitting for several more hours, we started off again. We reached a very deserted part of either Mississippi or Louisiana, the train stopped again, and we sat for hours.
4. By this time, the passengers were not happy, especially the football fans who had been enjoying adult beverages.
5. Then, all the crew disappeared. Completely. People walked up to the locomotive, and they could see no one there. There was no one from Amtrak around, it was dark, and we were in the middle of a swampy area.
6. The angry football fans broke into the cupboards and compartments of the snack car, trashing it. At this point, my wife and I and others became a little fearful. We went to a coach car and sat together with some other fearful people.
7. Some of the people saw a light in the distance. About 10 people took off walking. They returned carrying quite a few more bottles and cans for partying. No crew anywhere.
8. After hours of waiting, some Amtrak people showed up. Everyone got back into the seats, and we took off. We reached New Orleans about 3:00 a.m. Football fans were very angry and drunk. The train cars were a messy disaster.
Believe it or not, instead of being angry, we were able to tell our friends all about it at the New Year's Eve party. It got a lot of laughs, and even today my grown daughters talk about it.
York1 John
I have ridden a bus overnight many times--the last time was 35 years ago--and I have plan to never do so again. I have ridden a bus in the last few years only because I no longer drive, and I wanted to go to a place which has not had passenger rail service since 1969.
Johnny
The 11:30 am Megabus from Dallas to Houston for August 14th has four reserve seats on the first level and 16 on the second level. The price of the reservation ranges from $2 to $8. Two of the first level seats have been sold; two of the second level have been booked. The fare including a reserved seat is $11.
The $8 seats are on level two at the front of the bus. They definitely offer the best view of the roadway And if the bus is involved in a collision, the occupants of these seats, along with the driver, will be the first to feel the impact.
Greyhound has five express buses from Dallas to Houston on August 14th. The base fare is $19. The Economy Extra fare, which includes priority boarding, is $27. Reserved seats are not an option.
daveklepper Was the latter an overnight trip?
Assuming this question is addressed to me, I don't know of anyone in my active adult community that wants to ride a bus, train or plane overnight. They will do it when traveling overseas because it is the only realistic option.
Most of the people that I know don't want to sit cheek to jowl with a stranger on any conveyance. They prefer the comfort and convenience of a car. Like me, they will put up with sitting uncomfortably close to a stranger on an airplane, as an example, as a trade-off for covering long distances as quickly as possible. Or in a bus or train for the convenience of not having to drive or not being able to drive!
I suspect most of the people found overnight on a train or bus, with the exception of those in a sleeper, are either afraid to fly or don’t have any choice. They are an small segment of the population.
Talking of seating ...
In December, 1989, my family took an Amtrak trip that involved changing trains in Chicago.
Union Station was being remodeled, it was below zero outside, and there was no heat in the station. We froze standing in line to get onto the train. The train originated in Chicago.
We got into line early because we wanted to sit with our three young daughters.
When we finally got onto the warm train, we were amazed that the train was full. My wife ended up sitting in one car with one daughter two rows ahead. I was in a different car. I finally got someone to move so I could sit with the youngest. The oldest, who was nine, had to sit about 6 rows away.
I finally complained. I asked why the train was full when we were at the front of the line and the train originated in Chicago.
I was informed by a worker that the people on the train payed redcaps to get them onto the train earlier.
I wish I had known that before we stood in a freezing line for several hours. Several others who waited with us in line were very unhappy.
Yes. Both. Megabus was much better than Greyhound, and a smoother ride and quieter passengers than Amtrak coach.
So, anyone rode Megabus or Greyhound overnight?
DeggestyIs this a new practice on Greeyhound? The times I rode in the past four years I sat where I could; once I was unable to sit in a front seat because they were already in use--no seat was assigned to me.
Your ability to pick a seat is limited by how many people are on the bus prior to you boarding. That is a method of assignment based on boarding position. Southwest claims that none of it's seats are assigned (open seating)........which is well and good but try getting other than a middle seat if your in boarding position C or D. You don't have a choice then. Same is true of Greyhound, if you are boarding a bus at a continuation point in the trip and you have folks before you with priority boarding......good luck.
Megabus you can pick your seat on the internet and reserve it. It shows you each bus layout and seats available on the Internet.
Was the latter an overnight trip?
charlie hebdo Friends that ride Greyhound, Megabus and Amtrak coach say the Megabus is best, Greyhound the worst.
Last year I rode Megabus from NYC to Philadelphia to give it a go. The coach was spotless, and the ride was comfortable. I was able to reserve a seat for a few extra bucks.
I also rode Greyhound from Dallas to San Antonio. It was an express bus that took 5 hours, 5 minutes compared to 10 hours, 5 minutes on Amtrak's consistently late Texas Eagle. Because I chose the Economy Extra fare, which cost me $19 compared to $14 for the regular fare, I had priority boarding. The fare on Amtrak would have been $29.
Seats are not reserved between Dallas and San Antonio on Greyhound. However, the two front seats on the right hand side of the bus are reserve for elderly and/or mobility challenged riders.
Of the two experiences, I found Megabus to be a somewhat better experience.
Charlie, do your friends who give you the three-carrier comparison ride overnight?
CMStPnP charlie hebdo Megabus You can pick your seat on Megabus, it is assigned on Greyhound.
charlie hebdo Megabus
You can pick your seat on Megabus, it is assigned on Greyhound.
charlie hebdoMegabus
Friends that ride Greyhound, Megabus and Amtrak coach say the Megabus is best, Greyhound the worst.
daveklepper Elderly and other limited mobility who cannot fly; buses serve the same purpose? To some extent they do. However, anyone who has taken a long-distance bus trip, anything more than three hours, knows they really do not. The comfort level is less, the amount of space per seat is less, the restrooms are far less adequate, the ride as bumpy as bad track, much even most of the time. What about meal and beverage service? Greater problem to leave the bus for a roadside diner than moving to a dining café car, and most meal stops are not at places with great food. No 1st-Class service or handicapped room. But, clearly, with the freight congestion and Amtrak LDTs’ poor time-keeping and reduced meal options, they aren’t doing their job either. I believe my fix, station restaurants with home delivery, take-out service, and on-board sevice just a fraction of that business. can solve the food and beverage problem. But something drastic has to be done about so-called precision railroading’s effect on Amtrak timekeeping. Is there any LDT with decent on-time performance? How are the Florida trains doing these days? What about the Empire Builder? Which Class I does give Amtrak good service? Any?
As to meal accommodations currently available along bus routes, I personally am acquainted only with what is found between Charlottesville, Virginia, and Bristol, Tennessee--vending machines in Charlottesville and Roanoke and a stop at McDonald's at Max Meadows (near Wytheville, Virginia) Years ago, Wytheville had a nice bus station with what seemed to be a good lunch counter (I never patronized it except in the middle of the night).
How many of you have spent a night on a bus? Even an Amtrak coach seat is far more comfortable.
daveklepperWhich Class I does give Amtrak good service?
I think things have changed the last few years but the Southwest Chief on BNSF used to be fairly well handled train as well. Whenever I fly to KC and my hotel is across from KC Union Station, I can watch it arrive just before 8 and I hear it's horn while I am starting to doze off around 10-11 p.m. Typically ontime when I stop to notice. I don't check it everyday though so it could be horrendously late as well. And there is some silver lining on the LD trains being unreliable. The main impetus of the newly proposed day train between Chicago and St. Paul is that the Empire Builder has a bad schedule and has problems adhereing to the schedule due to circumstances West of St. Paul. I think if it was 100% reliable or never existed in the first place Minnesota never would have considered a suppliment to it. Again points to the fact that many LD train routes have started Corridor service initially or opened a lot of minds to it.......they havent been a complete waste of money.
MidlandMike Commuter lines like NJT recover about 30% of their costs at the farebox. Quite a bit less than Amtrak.
MikeInPlanoCiting passenger miles is a red herring. Carrying 1 passenger 3000 miles cross-country is a lot more expensive than 100 passengers 30 miles. And that 30 mile route can be covered more than once in a day using the same trainset.
That may be the case but the revenue capture opportunity of a single passenger captive on a train for 3000 miles is probably substantially higher than the group of 100 traveling a mere 30 miles. Just because you do not see Amtrak taking advantage of it doesn't mean it is not out there.
I think if you check the basic rail fare between the two groups is correspondingly cheaper as well for the shorter route because the fixed costs are lower.
Last your previous statement that buses can suppliment trains and be cheaper is based on density of passengers on the route. Had this discussion with family in Milwaukee concerning the Milwaukee trolley (The Hop). Apparently someone up there is stoking opposition to the trolley saying buses are cheaper. Actually again depends on the riders. Buses have issues in that they have a much shorter life cycle than a trolley car #1. #2 Your limited to how many passengers a bus driver can haul with one vehicle due to size and road limits. #3 fuel economy with just a moderate load of passengers the bus loses as well. Last but not least, been shown again and again that some rail passengers will refuse to ride a bus no matter if it is the only alternative. The figure is fairly decent though I do not remember what it is but I think it is at least 30% of rail passengers will not ride a bus and will seek either an automobile or an earlier termination of their trip vs riding on a connecting bus.
One more comment on how Amtrak runs long distance trains. The most cost recovery you see on a lounge car is what? Someone in the lower level selling $1 candy bars and $5 hamburgers and I can tell you at the prices Amtrak sells items in it's LD snack cars the margins are pretty slim given the salary and benefits of the person standing behind the counter. No hawking of souveniers or not much anyway, no bartender, no scheduled events in which would increase cafe sales. No it is pretty much bare bones. Someone has to pay to haul that lounge car as it consumes fuel and comes at the cost of possibly an additional coach or sleeper. Same deal with the Dinning Car. Hooking the labor intensive Dining car on a long distance train when the most expensive item on the menu was a $25 steak......if you ask me thats a total joke and now it is restricted to only sleeping car passengers? Ouch. It sounds like the crew on the LD dining car has been reduced from seven to 3-4, which I guess is an improvement but they should improve the food offerings as well as train and incent employees to upsell. Not saying the dining car will ever be profitable but Amtraks efforts to reduce the loss has been no-brainer items they should have done years ago. You probably will never see Amtrak consolidate or close most of the commissaries which has to be another financial hemmorage point.
MidlandMikeCommuter lines like NJT recover about 30% of their costs at the farebox. Quite a bit less than Amtrak.
Public commuter lines structure their fares voluntarily to maximize ridership vs cost recovery. A very large part of this reason is local commuter agencies get breaks on EPA environmental pollution requirements to the larger cities that sponsor them. If they have a mass transit system in place that carries a lot of riders. Not really sure how that all works and someone with an Urban Planning degree might be able to explain it better.
Amtrak does the same with it's LD fares or used to (hard to tell so far if those days are behind us or not). Corridor fares depends on the Corridor what Amtrak does. Chicago to Milwaukee fares for example are fixed and do not use yield management. They have only started to recently charge an extra $1-2 in fare for rush hour trains.......which is not a lot on a $50+ RT rail fare. When Amtrak took over the LD train system in the 1970's one if it's goals was to make the train more affordable to the masses and you see that reflected in the accomodations, fare structure, lack of amenities on board, onboard menu choices, lack of real First Class Accomodations, etc. What private railroad do you know of back in the 40's and 50's would only have a hamburger, a pasta selection and maybe baked chicken as the only menu options in the dining car?
You'll also notice that Public Commuter lines do almost nothing to enhance revenue, one class of service on one type of car is pretty much all you get these days. Long gone are the extra fare cars and in some cases bar cars (which were a holdover from the private railways running things earlier in the 1900's).
MikeInPlano MidlandMike charlie hebdo LD trains are an impractical means of transportation for any distance over 500-800 miles and thus used by very few people. A lot of their ridership in sleeping cars are well-off seniors taking heavily-subsidized land cruises. Sounds pretty elitist to me. LD trains haul 40% of Amtrak's passenger-miles. It meets the practical needs of those people. Where is your data to say that there are any more well-to-do land-cruisers, than people riding the train because it is physically the easiest for them? Citing passenger miles is a red herring. Carrying 1 passenger 3000 miles cross-country is a lot more expensive than 100 passengers 30 miles. And that 30 mile route can be covered more than once in a day using the same trainset.
MidlandMike charlie hebdo LD trains are an impractical means of transportation for any distance over 500-800 miles and thus used by very few people. A lot of their ridership in sleeping cars are well-off seniors taking heavily-subsidized land cruises. Sounds pretty elitist to me. LD trains haul 40% of Amtrak's passenger-miles. It meets the practical needs of those people. Where is your data to say that there are any more well-to-do land-cruisers, than people riding the train because it is physically the easiest for them?
charlie hebdo LD trains are an impractical means of transportation for any distance over 500-800 miles and thus used by very few people. A lot of their ridership in sleeping cars are well-off seniors taking heavily-subsidized land cruises. Sounds pretty elitist to me.
LD trains haul 40% of Amtrak's passenger-miles. It meets the practical needs of those people. Where is your data to say that there are any more well-to-do land-cruisers, than people riding the train because it is physically the easiest for them?
Citing passenger miles is a red herring. Carrying 1 passenger 3000 miles cross-country is a lot more expensive than 100 passengers 30 miles. And that 30 mile route can be covered more than once in a day using the same trainset.
Passenger-miles is the measure of the actual work done by a passenger train, anything else is derivative. And you think carrying a lot of passengers 30 miles is cheap? Commuter lines like NJT recover about 30% of their costs at the farebox. Quite a bit less than Amtrak.
NKP guy (Even as I write, #30 is 4 hrs. 9 min. late at Rockville, Maryland. It left Chicago only 8 min. late, but lost an hour between South Bend and Elkhart, another hour before Sandusky, and a third hour between Connellsville and Martinsburg)
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