NKP guy It's doubtful the impetus for this custom was illiteracy; almost certainly it was the desire to have, in his own writing, the customer's order so as to eliminate errors. Lastly, I think to state or imply that dining car waiters at any period in American history were illiterate is a rather racist statement or implication. Can you seriously imagine Pullman or any railroad actually employng illiterate men in any capacity involving contact with the traveling public? How would such a person read a rule book or written orders? Were any illiterate white men employed as conductors, brakemen, or even barbers? So why posit that black men were illiterate? Many, as we know, were well educated and struggled to gain even a job in a dining car, given the hostility they faced in the work place.
Lastly, I think to state or imply that dining car waiters at any period in American history were illiterate is a rather racist statement or implication. Can you seriously imagine Pullman or any railroad actually employng illiterate men in any capacity involving contact with the traveling public? How would such a person read a rule book or written orders? Were any illiterate white men employed as conductors, brakemen, or even barbers? So why posit that black men were illiterate? Many, as we know, were well educated and struggled to gain even a job in a dining car, given the hostility they faced in the work place.
Yes it is a racist statement - as society was overtly racist during the first 2/3 of the 20th Century. In the 50+ years since the enactment of the Civil Rights Act, we have come to overloook just how racist our society has been in the past. The N word was perfectly acceptable in normal conversation during those times
A number of years ago C-Span telecast a series of the Lincoln-Douglas debates (done by re-enactors) where the words were based on 'transcripts' of the debates as they occurred. In comparison to todays 'speeches' the statements voiced by both parties were totally cringeworthy when it came racial discription.
Most if not all dining car menu had a statement printed on them to the effect that customers were to write out their orders as the waiters were not permitted to accept verbal orders. I have no idea if this statement was carried through on to the early Amtrak dining car menus.
As an aside to illiteracy. In the early 1980's Chessie System moved it headquarters general offices from the B&O Building in Baltimore to office space in Charles Center, a block North of the B&O Building on Charles St. The B&O Building had a Clerical Seniority Roster of employess that were elevator operators, freight handlers and janitorial staff and most of the other non-technical jobs required to keep a office building working. At the time of the move, this roster numbered about 80 employees of all races, 3/4 of which had 30 or more years seniority. With the move they were out of a job unless they could perform routine 1980's clerical work. The top numbers of the seniority roster were not able to read and write at an acceptable level that was detirmined through testing. The remaining 1/4 of the roster was put through a company operated clerical training cirriculum - 14 of the 20 were successful in passing that cirriculum and continued to remain employed. The rest of the rostered either retired and went looking for other jobs with other companies.
This was in the 1980's - not aincent history. We forget there are segments of society, even today, that see glory in being illiterate.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I first encountered this curious custom in November, 1971 on Amtrak's train from GCT to Chicago, and I seem to recall it being used into the 1980's. Most of the time a newbie would try to tell the waiter (never a waitress) what he wanted, only to be rudely answered with a piece of paper and a pencil being thrust at him, sometimes in silence and sometimes accompanied by a gruff "write it out!" I saw this happen any number of times and I cringed each time. What could be a worse, more intimidating "welcome" to the dining car? How on earth could first-timers be expected to know that, unlike every other eating establisment in the world, dining cars required writing out the orders?
But if you think about it, ticking off a list of available foods isn't any different from those breakfast order cards that we use when staying in good hotels. Today I visited a McDonald's and for the first time placed my order via machine; it took twice as long as ordering at the counter takes.
It's doubtful the impetus for this custom was illiteracy; almost certainly it was the desire to have, in his own writing, the customer's order so as to eliminate errors.
The other thing I was wondering was the time. Imagine all the time involved in waiters going from table to table verbally asking each diner what they want and writing it down, in the noisy environment charlie hebdo mentions, when they could be seating people or serving them. Multiply this by up to three for the number of seatings involved. Not exactly the magic twenty, is it?
I think I wrote the orders on the Burlington and Sante Fe. In North by North West, Cary Grant writes his order for brook trout on the 20th Century. Maybe the reason for writing was so that the din would not interfere with hearing and cause errors? After all, dinning (sic!) cars were really noisy.
DeggestyAs to why the practice started, I do not know.
I had thought it was to avoid 'mistakes' either on the part of the customers or the staff with orders being received orally and transcribed 'in the usual way'. A customer might order something expensive, eat some major part of it, then summon the waiter and say "This isn't what I ordered" and make the poor fellow take it back for a whole new portion of something else. Or the waiter might write down something extra, which at the end of the night would cover some 'pantry adjustment' a la Sugar Hill. If you look at the somewhat neurotic rules regarding how to serve drinks to customers, I think this reason for the customer writing the order is plausible.
It would certainly cover a situation where waiters themselves were illiterate, though. The only question then is why so unpleasant a detail became systemic regardless of individual literacy...
Interesting that NP didn't do this, Johnny, because I was in a GN diner (probably on a combination BN Empire Builder/North Coast Limited) in 1970, and had to write out my order.They didn't make it easy...they gave you a GN Big Sky Blue pencil with lead as hard as anthracite and short enough that you coudn't make it write heavy enough.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Having the customers writing out their orders was 'dining car custom' in the days of railroad operated dining cars.
I suspect, but don't know, it may have been a outgrowth the racist past in attempting to keep black people illerate and treating them as illerate even if they were educated. My travels which were over a number of different carriers, railroad waiters were nearly all black. Pullman Company service employees were a mix of blacks and Phillipino's.
As to why the practice started, I do not know. I do know that this was the practice on all roads but the Northern Pacific. Having eaten in the diners of several roads prior to 1971, even though I knew that on the Northern Pacific the waiters wrote our orders as you told them what you wanted, I was a little taken by surprise--until I remembered--when I first ate in an NP diner in April of 1971.
Johnny
In the mid 70s I rode the Southern pre Amtrak and had meals in the dinning car. The waiters passed out cards which the customers wrote down what they wanted. I heard once that this was a carryover from when the waiters couldn't read. Is this true? Did other railroads besides the Southern have this practice? I assume it is not current practice on Amtrak.
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