So far on this trip I have noticed one change in the procedure that I seen followed since Amtrak more or less standarized its fare from train to train--on both the Cardinal and the Crescent,(only one sleeper out of New York yesterday) the attendant asked only that the patrons sign their name--after asking what room was occupied. The stasndard form was used on the Crescent, but, apparently because the Cardinal has different offerings, a different form was used.
Of course, on the trains with the "let us get rid of the passengers" idea, the attendant does it all.
Johnny
KEN G MARXNot to put too fine a point on it, but Marines are Marines, not soldiers. The Army has soldiers.
For what it's worth (not much), Navy SEALs refer to them as "candy-ass Marines" in their take on the Marine Hymn.
Pretty impressive Woody9. 30 + years riding Pullman's on fine trains out of Chicago, before and after WWII. Must have seen it all. What a great life.
Its always been my experience that you write your own order on a ticket and the waiter reads it back to you aloud.
My late father worked for the Pullman company before the war, served in an operating railway battalion in France during the war and rejoined the PC after the war as a conductor. From Chicago, he ran the "name trains" on the UP, GN, SF and RI to Seattle, San Francisco and LA for 30 some years until Amtrak put him out of work. I was lucky enough to begin traveling with my family when I was five to SF and over the course of the next twenty plus years to all of the other cities multiple times.
All of the dining car servers were black with some small exceptions, the dinning car Steward was white and was the manager. I fondly recall getting to fill out my meal card and always figured it was a convience for the staff and an accounting proceedure. The waiter always read it back out loud and made and corrections or changes as needed.When I traveled alone with my father, I got to "pay' for my meal by sorting the checks into numurical order, as he ate what I ordered giving the head cook a few dollars for the extra meal and sleeping the dining car steward in the Pullmans instead of the domitory car with the crew.
This is a long way to telling you that everyone of the porters and dining car waiters were educated and worldly and enjoyed what they were doing, most were from the south coming to Chicago on the IC and finding what would have been a unique opportunity for a black person in the '50's/60's, traveling to top flight cities on a luxury mode of transportation serving, at the time, an upscale white audience who tipped well.
I remember some of the crew on the City of Los Angelos (nothing like breakfast in a dome diner at 90 MPH across Wyoming) actually doing a sort of "show" duing service trading trays as they walked past each other as sort of majic act, some times there was even a little harmony singing. They were great people and it really offered me an insight into understanding the different cultures.
wjstixBTW re the military...I know someone who tried to join the Marines a few years ago, and before being allowed to enlist they had to take a general intelligence test. They were shocked to find out that the Marines couldn't accept her, because her test score was too high! Apparently if you score over a certain mark, you can only join the Navy.
Also, I might add to what was stated already. The ASVAB (which I took as well) is commonly misrepresented as a intelligence test. It is a placement test NOT an intelligence test. You have a range of jobs in which require various skills and ability to learn. The ASVAB - Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test measures your ability to do specific jobs that each service offers.
Further, yes in the past the military recruited illerate and under educated people but since Vietnam the recruitment has been conditional that they take remedial grade school and high school courses over time to reach the level everyone else that had a HS degree is at.
Now I don't think they admit people that are marginal anymore as they now require either a HS diploma or GED plus a semester of college. They require a semester of college (accredited instutions only) from the GED holders now because of some fly by night GED firms so they used the semester of college to evaluate if the GED is really worth the paper it is written on. Internally the Army has the BSEP progam (Basic Skills Education Program) for people that score lower on the ASVAB but want a higher score for a different job. They can go through the BSEP program and hence raise their ASVAB score and qualify for the higher rated job. This is how they ensure that nobody that lacks education is stuck down at a specific level and that anyone can move up.
Just wanted to clear that up because some folks think the military is a refuge of dumb people, in the past maybe some skated by but no longer. If you want to reach the higher enlisted ranks you need a Bachelor Degree or at a very minimum an Associate Degree. If you ever want to be a Four Star General you need a PhD or a very highly rated Masters. Full Bird Colonel needs at minimum a Masters Degree, most will not make it to LTC without one.
Also the former "Join the Army or go to Jail" practice is now prohibited, they banned it in the 1990's sometime. If they find any court judgements with that as part of the adjudication they will not even talk to you about enlistment. Even if you plead to the judge to cut you a break as your about to enlist in the Armed Forces..........that plead is an immediate disqualification from service now.
I remember writing it down in Amtrak diners and probably also did it in a Penn Central diner. There are other people on the train that would have had written down information - conductor and engineer would have train orders. Many people that settled the west according to books I have read were illiterate. Are we coming back full circle? Kids today can not read and write. They can read and print. Many cannot even write their own signature.
Deggesty In the past several years, my experience in diners has been that I am asked to write my name and indicate the space I occupy in a sleeper--the atendant takes my order and marks it on the form.
In the past several years, my experience in diners has been that I am asked to write my name and indicate the space I occupy in a sleeper--the atendant takes my order and marks it on the form.
In 1917 the US army made all their draftees complete an IQ test one of the first mass exercises of this nature. The results showed that black men from northern states scored higher than white men from southern states. Needless to say the results were suppressed so as not to upset the southern white politicians.
York1What I considered strange was that we had to eat at a table for four with two complete strangers. I was not used to that in any restaurant I had been in.
Frankly, I always thought of that as one of the charms of rail travel and, with unassigned seating, ocean cruising. I recall only one bad experience (a particularly obnoxious woman seated with us on a cruise ship) and many, many pleasant meals with perfect strangers in dining cars and cruise ships. Of course, the obnoxious woman is the only one I still remember.
ChuckAllen, TX
All Wrong: I wondered about this as a college student and then figured it out. It's purely a safety issue. Due to the dinning car swaying and moving, the waiter could easily A.) stab the customer in the neck with the pencil during a particularly hard jolt and B.) or lose his balance and fall into the customer's lap [if he's holding the card with one hand, and writing with the other, the waiter will surly lose his balance. We all use our hands for balance, not writing food orders.]
CShaveRR Interesting that NP didn't do this, Johnny, because I was in a GN diner (probably on a combination BN Empire Builder/North Coast Limited) in 1970, and had to write out my order.They didn't make it easy...they gave you a GN Big Sky Blue pencil with lead as hard as anthracite and short enough that you coudn't make it write heavy enough.
Interesting that NP didn't do this, Johnny, because I was in a GN diner (probably on a combination BN Empire Builder/North Coast Limited) in 1970, and had to write out my order.They didn't make it easy...they gave you a GN Big Sky Blue pencil with lead as hard as anthracite and short enough that you coudn't make it write heavy enough.
Incidentally, I do have the impression that the NP was the only road in comparatively recent times that had the waiters write the orders; does anyone remember another road that followed this practice?
Jeff and Paul North may remember the account of the man who sat down for breakfast, and asked the waiter to please read the menu to him since he had forgottten to put his glasses on--and the waiter responded, "Bless you Boss, I can't read either."
JPS1 The Army has soldiers. The Marine Corps has Marines! Or Jarheads! Or Leathernecks!
The Army has soldiers. The Marine Corps has Marines! Or Jarheads! Or Leathernecks!
Not to mention teufel hunden
I know I wrote dining car orders on the nkp, in early 1964, the NYC and later on PC and in the atsf.
CSSHEGEWISCH That says a lot about what kind of soldiers are wanted by the United States Marine Corps.
I joined the Marine Corp on June 17, 1957. Some of the members of my recruit platoon had enlisted in the Corps because of the judge. The judge I asked? Yep, join the Marines or go to jail! Not harden criminals mind you! Just youthful misfits.
By the time Sargent Wolf and Sargent Payne got done with them, they probably wished that they had opted for a little time in the slammer. Most of them were gone before boot camp graduation.
This is probably not accurate, and it may be your friend misunderstood, or heard this from a Navy person as a joke.
All new recruits for any service are required to take the ASVAB. The different branches have minimum required test scores. Here is more info:
https://asvabbootcamp.com/blog/asvab-scores/
York1 John
Yup, that’s what my experience was as well
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
In the past several years, my experience in diners has been that I am asked to write my name and indicate the space I occupy in a sleeper--the attendant takes my order and marks it on the form.
wjstix BTW re the military...I know someone who tried to join the Marines a few years ago, and before being allowed to enlist they had to take a general intelligence test. They were shocked to find out that the Marines couldn't accept her, because her test score was too high! Apparently if you score over a certain mark, you can only join the Navy.
BTW re the military...I know someone who tried to join the Marines a few years ago, and before being allowed to enlist they had to take a general intelligence test. They were shocked to find out that the Marines couldn't accept her, because her test score was too high! Apparently if you score over a certain mark, you can only join the Navy.
[quote user="ORNHOO"]
That reminds me of a story my father used to tell. He was drafted into the Army in 1940 and after basic was assigned to the Army Air Corps. The group of buck privates he was with were trated to a speech by a colonel who told them they should be proud of themselves because "the Air Corps only takes the best of the best!" They were then sent to another post for further training and found out that the other half of the barracks they were assigned to was occupied by more "best of the best", only these guys (from southern states that did not have compulsory education) could neither read nor write and had had to sign their enlistment papers with an X.
Paul of Covington Thinking about the custom, I kinda think that illiteracy probably was a factor. Back in the early years, illiteracy was fairly common in all races, probably more so in non-whites. I get the impression that, like the military, adherence to tradition is very strong with the railroads
Thinking about the custom, I kinda think that illiteracy probably was a factor. Back in the early years, illiteracy was fairly common in all races, probably more so in non-whites. I get the impression that, like the military, adherence to tradition is very strong with the railroads
It's certainly possible many early waiters were illiterate, but I've never seen anything relating to that being the reason for the customers writing out their own orders. There were many jobs illiterate people could do in steam-era railroading, like track work, cleaning engines, shop work etc. I would think those hired for waiter jobs would be much more likely to be those with at least some education.
This practice continues on Amtrak (at least on those trains that still have full service diners... ).
When I rode the Empire Builder less than two years ago I recall papers being set on tables. You could check the Bones for what you wanted. However I never filled out the paper, the waiter was perfectly happy to fill it out for you. I’m fact it seemed the waiters preferred to fill it out themselves and would go over the order even if you filled out the paper.
I think since this was a superliner diner, which use dumbwaiters and there is no verbal communication between chefs and waiters normally, the waiters needed to use this form to communicate with the chefs.
Had I known this was a railroad tradition maybe I would have filled it out myself... Or maybe I would have followed NP practice, being an NP fan.
Concerning dining car etiquette, it is not astounding to see many people come into a diner and be a bit annoyed when they, not understanding that the staff has to make the best use of the available space, are told to sit at the same table with other people. Also, many do not realize that it is proper to wait at the door until someone indicates where they should sit.
Granted, before taking the first trip on which we ate in a diner, my mother did brief my brother and me on the proper behavior.
York1 What I considered strange was that we had to eat at a table for four with two complete strangers. I was not used to that in any restaurant I had been in.
What I considered strange was that we had to eat at a table for four with two complete strangers. I was not used to that in any restaurant I had been in.
[quote user="Paul of Covington"]
I remember my mother writing meal orders in the early '50's train diners.
I only ever recall seeing one dining car employee, not counting the supervisor, who wasn't black and that was just before Amtrak took over. The employee was a women and that was also the only woman dining car employee I ever saw pre-Amtrak. Come to think of it, I only recall seeing one black dining supervisor in my trips and that was on the old Seaboard line about 1966-67.
I first encountered having to write my order on MOPAC in 1962, and I remember that my writing with the motion of the train was barely legible.
Thinking about the custom, I kinda think that illiteracy probably was a factor. Back in the early years, illiteracy was fairly common in all races, probably more so in non-whites. I get the impression that, like the military, adherence to tradition is very strong with the railroads, and the practice was continued for years even as the times changed.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
As a kid in the 1950s, I rode the Union Pacific City of Portland from the midwest to Seattle. I remember my mother writing her and my order on a card.
I didn't give that much thought.
NKP guy Not to put too fine a point on it, but we need to remember that not all illiterate people are stupid and not all literate folks are smart.
Fully agree, however, to work most jobs that exist in today's world, literacy is required even if intellegence isn't.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Not to put too fine a point on it, but we need to remember that not all illiterate people are stupid and not all literate folks are smart.
I think it was Dr. Samuel Johnson who said, sometime in the 18th century, that he knew a distinguished man who was fluent in 30 languages, but couldn't say anything intelligent in any of them, including his own.
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