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writing meal orders on dinning cars

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Posted by Lmsr on Tuesday, May 7, 2019 3:30 PM

In 1917 the US army made all their draftees complete an IQ test one of the first mass exercises of this nature. The results showed that black men from northern states scored higher than white men from southern states. Needless to say the results were suppressed so as not to upset the southern white politicians. 

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, May 7, 2019 4:30 PM

Deggesty

In the past several years, my experience in diners has been that I am asked to write my name and indicate the space I occupy in a sleeper--the atendant takes my order and marks it on the form.

 

 
I hadn't thought about that - first class passengers having meals included in their fare. The dining car staff would have to have some way to verify if the person really was in first class or not.
 
I think another factor may have just been time. A waiter standing writing down an order - especially with a person who's slow to decide what they want, or who order something then change it - is a waiter who can't be bringing people food.
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Posted by CRIP 4376 on Tuesday, May 7, 2019 9:03 PM

I remember writing it down in Amtrak diners and probably also did it in a Penn Central diner.  There are other people on the train that would have had written down information - conductor and engineer would have train orders.  Many people that settled the west according to books I have read were illiterate.  Are we coming back full circle?  Kids today can not read and write.  They can read and print.  Many cannot even write their own signature.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, May 8, 2019 12:41 PM

wjstix
BTW re the military...I know someone who tried to join the Marines a few years ago, and before being allowed to enlist they had to take a general intelligence test. They were shocked to find out that the Marines couldn't accept her, because her test score was too high! Apparently if you score over a certain mark, you can only join the Navy.

Also, I might add to what was stated already.   The ASVAB (which I took as well) is commonly misrepresented as a intelligence test.   It is a placement test NOT an intelligence test.    You have a range of jobs in which require various skills and ability to learn.   The ASVAB - Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test measures your ability to do specific jobs that each service offers.

Further, yes in the past the military recruited illerate and under educated people but since Vietnam the recruitment has been conditional that they take remedial grade school and high school courses over time to reach the level everyone else that had a HS degree is at.   

Now I don't think they admit people that are marginal anymore as they now require either a HS diploma or GED plus a semester of college.    They require a semester of college (accredited instutions only) from the GED holders now because of some fly by night GED firms so they used the semester of college to evaluate if the GED is really worth the paper it is written on.   Internally the Army has the BSEP progam (Basic Skills Education Program) for people that score lower on the ASVAB but want a higher score for a different job.    They can go through the BSEP program and hence raise their ASVAB score and qualify for the higher rated job.    This is how they ensure that nobody that lacks education is stuck down at a specific level and that anyone can move up.

Just wanted to clear that up because some folks think the military is a refuge of dumb people, in the past maybe some skated by but no longer.   If you want to reach the higher enlisted ranks you need a Bachelor Degree or at a very minimum an Associate Degree.   If you ever want to be a Four Star General you need a PhD or a very highly rated Masters.    Full Bird Colonel needs at minimum a Masters Degree, most will not make it to LTC without one.

Also the former "Join the Army or go to Jail" practice is now prohibited, they banned it in the 1990's sometime.   If they find any court judgements with that as part of the adjudication they will not even talk to you about enlistment.   Even if you plead to the judge to cut you a break as your about to enlist in the Armed Forces..........that plead is an immediate disqualification from service now.

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Posted by woody9 on Wednesday, May 8, 2019 11:28 PM

My late father worked for the Pullman company before the war, served in an operating railway battalion in France during the war and rejoined the PC after the war as a conductor. From Chicago, he ran the "name trains" on the UP, GN, SF and RI to Seattle, San Francisco and LA for 30 some years until Amtrak put him out of work. I was lucky enough to begin traveling with my family when I was five to SF and over the course of the next twenty plus years to all of the other cities multiple times.

All of the dining car servers were black with some small exceptions, the dinning car Steward was white and was the manager. I fondly recall getting to fill out my meal card and always figured it was a convience for the staff and an accounting proceedure. The waiter always read it back out loud and made and corrections or changes as needed.When I traveled alone with my father, I got to "pay' for my meal by sorting the checks into numurical order, as he ate what I ordered giving the head cook a few dollars for the extra meal and sleeping the dining car steward in the Pullmans instead of the domitory car with the crew.

This is a long way to telling you that everyone of the porters and dining car waiters were educated and worldly and enjoyed what they were doing, most were from the south coming to Chicago on the IC and finding what would have been a unique opportunity for a black person in the '50's/60's, traveling to top flight cities on a luxury mode of transportation serving, at the time, an upscale white audience who tipped well.

I remember some of the crew on the City of Los Angelos (nothing like breakfast in a dome diner at 90 MPH across Wyoming) actually doing a sort of "show" duing service trading trays as they walked past each other as sort of majic act, some times there was even a little harmony singing. They were great people and it really offered me an insight into understanding the different cultures.      

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, May 9, 2019 12:18 AM

Pretty impressive Woody9. 30 + years riding Pullman's on fine trains out of Chicago, before and after WWII. Must have seen it all. What a great life.  

Its always been my experience that you write your own order on a ticket and the waiter reads it back to you aloud. 

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Posted by KEN G MARX on Friday, May 10, 2019 11:32 AM
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Marines are Marines, not soldiers. The Army has soldiers.
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, May 10, 2019 4:33 PM

KEN G MARX
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Marines are Marines, not soldiers. The Army has soldiers.
 

For what it's worth (not much), Navy SEALs refer to them as "candy-ass Marines" in their take on the Marine Hymn.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, May 10, 2019 5:20 PM

So far on this trip I have noticed one change in the procedure that I seen followed since Amtrak more or less standarized its fare from train to train--on both the Cardinal and the Crescent,(only one sleeper out of New York yesterday)  the attendant asked only that the patrons sign their name--after asking what room was occupied. The stasndard form was used on the Crescent, but, apparently because the Cardinal has different offerings, a different form was used. 

Of course, on the trains with the "let us get rid of the passengers" idea, the attendant does it all.

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Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Friday, May 10, 2019 6:59 PM

TandP RR

All Wrong:  I wondered about this as a college student and then figured it out.  It's purely a safety issue.  Due to the dinning car swaying and moving, the waiter could easily A.) stab the customer in the neck with the pencil during a particularly hard jolt and B.) or lose his balance and fall into the customer's lap [if he's holding the card with one hand, and writing with the other, the waiter will surly lose his balance. We all use our hands for balance, not writing food orders.]   

You don't need to use your hand for balance when walking on a moving train, all you have to do is walk with your feet slightly farther apart than normal, that keeps you balanced as well.  Also, if you ever noticed, they sometimes actually lean up against the table with their legs at very imperctible angle to help them stand up.  Safety has nothing to do with it at all.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, May 10, 2019 9:17 PM

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR
 
TandP RR

All Wrong:  I wondered about this as a college student and then figured it out.  It's purely a safety issue.  Due to the dinning car swaying and moving, the waiter could easily A.) stab the customer in the neck with the pencil during a particularly hard jolt and B.) or lose his balance and fall into the customer's lap [if he's holding the card with one hand, and writing with the other, the waiter will surly lose his balance. We all use our hands for balance, not writing food orders. 

You don't need to use your hand for balance when walking on a moving train, all you have to do is walk with your feet slightly farther apart than normal, that keeps you balanced as well.  Also, if you ever noticed, they sometimes actually lean up against the table with their legs at very imperctible angle to help them stand up.  Safety has nothing to do with it at all.

Don't forget waiters carry large trays with the orders for each table from the kitchen on the diner to the table being served - carrying various hot and or liquid items that could be more easily spilled than any waiter stabbing someone with a pencil or pen accidently.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, May 12, 2019 7:44 PM

charlie hebdo
After all, dinning (sic!) cars were really noisy. 

Tsk, tsk. Sic is usually italicized and always surrounded by brackets to indicate that it was not part of the original.  FYI [sic]Smile, Wink & Grin

"Aways clean your own house first, before criticizing your neighbor's house."

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, May 12, 2019 8:58 PM

243129
Tsk, tsk. Sic is usually italicized ...

... and never capitalized; it is short for a Latin phrase (sic erat scriptum) and should have been put in quotes when mentioned in a sentence.

Apparently an enormous number of people use 'sic' in parens rather than the 'correct' square brackets as noted.  I am of course opposed to tolerating this, but it does have to be said you really can't mistake what it is meant to mean...

I confess I never appended the exclamation point, but it is not semantically wrong as far as I can tell... and i can see the value in emphasizing a particularly apt malapropism or egregious Freudian slip when called out.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:12 PM

sic is also from the Latin sicut = just as. Should not be italicized since it has become a part of our language. Parentheses have become nearly interchangable in usage, and the exclamation mark is also common. 

In any case, Joe appears to have totally missed the point of my comment regarding those noisy 'dinning' cars.  I suppose my error is once more a function, ad nauseam, of poor training, supervision and vetting?

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:22 PM

charlie hebdo
poor training, supervision and vetting?

Now you're getting it!

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:52 PM

243129

 

 
charlie hebdo
After all, dinning (sic!) cars were really noisy. 

 

Tsk, tsk. Sic is usually italicized and always surrounded by brackets to indicate that it was not part of the original.  FYI [sic]Smile, Wink & Grin

"Aways clean your own house first, before criticizing your neighbor's house."

 

"After all, dinning (sic!) cars were really noisy."

You should heed your own advice, Joe?  The sorta humorous, play-on-words sentence in which I used the Latin term in question was my totally own except for the misused word 'dinning' and was not the original, so parentheses are quite correct, not brackets.

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:56 PM

Whatever makes you happy ChuckWhistling

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Posted by woody9 on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 11:29 PM

I know my dad enjoyed his job and was quite good at it keeping track of each "space' as it was refered to with a little Pullman pencil. Sounds like a romantic job but consider he was up for every stop to off load or take a new customer aboard. He was gone every other five days so we always joked that I only knew him for half of my early life, lots of missed birthdays, Christmas and so forth. He was not a rail fan as I don't think he saw any plaesure in it, but always accomidated me in my pursiut. I was remided of his shinny shouldered uniform jackets as we brushed side to side in the sleeper walk ways of the Canadian last fall.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:47 AM

243129

Whatever makes you happy ChuckWhistling

 

Perhaps in your new life you could benefit from training and supervision from Overmod and even myself. 

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 11:06 AM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129

Whatever makes you happy ChuckWhistling

 

 

 

Perhaps in your new life you could benefit from training and supervision from Overmod and even myself. 

 

Perhaps in your 'new life' you could acquire some maturity. Big Smile

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 11:12 AM

243129
 
charlie hebdo 
243129

Whatever makes you happy ChuckWhistling 

Perhaps in your new life you could benefit from training and supervision from Overmod and even myself. 

Perhaps in your 'new life' you could acquire some maturity. Big Smile

How high is the urine Momma!  Four feet high and rising.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 11:21 AM

BaltACD
How high is the urine Momma! Four feet high and rising.

Now we have another 'one'. Desk jockey chimes in.Confused

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 12:49 PM

In hopes of keeping the urea in the forum discussions squarely in DEF

charlie hebdo
sic is also from the Latin sicut = just as. Should not be italicized since it has become a part of our language.

Brings up another can-o-worms grammar-pedant controversy. 

The use of 'sic' seems more like the use of a foreign word or phrase that is normally italicized in streamed text (like 'ad hoc' or 'pro rata') than a common unitalicized foreign-word abbreviation (the poster child probably being "etc." which no one pronounces as anything but 'et cetera' even though slaughtering other Latin-derived terms like "Ibid" (yes, I'm guilty of this).

I'm tempted to introduce an artificial distinction between [sic] or [sic] as a formal indication of original source material and (sic) as calling attention to something in the quoted phrase.

In either case, when charlie hebdo used it, it's pretty clear what he meant (and amusing in context) and far from a sharp stick in even a grammar Nazi's eye.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 1:47 PM

   All this discussion of [sic], [sic], (sic), &c. is fun, but compared to the slaughter of grammar and spelling of regular english...?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:58 PM

Paul of Covington
   All this discussion of [sic], [sic], (sic), &c. is fun, but compared to the slaughter of grammar and spelling of regular english...?

"English" is always capitalized!  And the ampersand is a ligature which counts as italic so you should have used an italic 'c' after it!  You should have been vetted better before participating in the slow-motion train wreck this thread has become!

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 3:27 PM

Overmod

 

 
Paul of Covington
   All this discussion of [sic], [sic], (sic), &c. is fun, but compared to the slaughter of grammar and spelling of regular english...?

 

"English" is always capitalized!  And the ampersand is a ligature which counts as italic so you should have used an italic 'c' after it!  You should have been vetted better before participating in the slow-motion train wreck this thread has become!

 

 

+1!!!

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 3:46 PM

Overmod
In either case, when charlie hebdo used it, it's pretty clear what he meant (and amusing in context) and far from a sharp stick in even a grammar Nazi's eye.

This discussion would never have happened had charlie not felt the need to point out a spelling error in the thread title, incorrectly I might add.One should have their 'ducks in a row' so to speak before they criticize (incorrectly) others.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:08 PM

I keep rememboring, Rodney King saying "CAN'T WE JUST GET ALONG"

Come on guy's, give it a rest. Youi don't HAVE to have the last word.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:39 PM

Electroliner 1935

I keep rememboring, Rodney King saying "CAN'T WE JUST GET ALONG"

Come on guy's, give it a rest. Youi don't HAVE to have the last word.

 

   Now you've stepped in it.   I was going to warn you that someone would claim a misquote, but I decided to check it out first.   Though the captions have the word "just", I just don't hear it.  There is a little hesitation there, but I don't hear the word "just".   Granted, my hearing in my old age is not what it used to be, but I hear the rest of it OK.   How long can we keep this up?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 5:40 PM

Paul of Covington
Electroliner 1935

I keep rememboring, Rodney King saying "CAN'T WE JUST GET ALONG"

Come on guy's, give it a rest. Youi don't HAVE to have the last word.

Now you've stepped in it ... How long can we keep this up?

 
As Ellen once said, "Come on, I can wait all night..."
 
If youi had remembored the rules of grammar better, youi wouldn't have used a greengrocer's apostrophe!  Now that is a stick in the eye!  (Strangely, one of the things worse than that is a whole book of supposed 'comical sign mistakes' largely and ultimately boringly devoted to instances of that little foible...)  Be glad I don't comment on the misuse of the comma ... oh wait, I did...
 
Seriously: it's time to let the whole 'gage' thing and its sequelae and metastases quietly reach its demise.  Can't we just forgive and forget?

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