In the US, the main market for an auto-train is snowbirds, i.e., older, retired people staying at their warmer destination for a month or more in winter, where the distance driving is far (two overnights). CHI-DEN is not that nor is CHI-DAL.
Midwest to Orlando could work only if the track were improved to allow better time.
Jim200"The folks in Chicago go to Phoenix to winter over. So they were talking about the probability of putting an Auto Train on from Chicago to Phoenix and back, probably linking it up with one of our other western trains that already exist," Vollten said.
In my view Chicago to Phoenix is a long time to ask a first time train travaler to sit on a train and think it is better than driving. I wasn't thinking just about equipment utilization but about someone being impatient to get there.
I could see Chicago to Denver working and possibly Chicago to Dallas (dropping intermediate stops would speed both routes up end to end) You could easily do Chicago to Dallas by dropping the 45 min in St. Louis and probably a good part of the schedule padding from the Milk Run Texas Eagle schedule. Have not looked at time Chicago to Denver would consume.
Chicago to Phoenix or even Flagstaff would seem like asking a lot for someone to sit on a train that long.
Maybe do that trip in two legs? Chicago to Denver and then Denver to Phoenix with an intermediate stop in the middle? I don't know.
Two issues there why it would never happen with Amtrak. #1 Amtrak never had the money. #2 Amtrak is way to risk averse to attempt an experiment like that with Long Distance.....it would mean several Amtrak managers sticking their heads out on the line and accepting responsibility if the route failed and you just do not seem to have that culture in Amtrak. Amtrak management only seems to want to take on projects where it is obvious to the brain dead they would make money. Such as the original Auto-Train route, The Denver Ski-Train, hevaily subsidized with state money new corridor routes, etc. Rarely will you see Amtrak put it's own money on the line and take a risk with a new train entirely or even majority on it's own. It is part of the reason we are where we are today with Long Distance segment that has not evolved that much since the 1950's. The biggest change Amtrak financed on it's own to the LD segment was the 800 toll free reservation number. I think they did that because they were tired of all those carbon copy tickets and trying to interpret 1500 different versions of penmenship on the carbon based tickets.
CSSHEGEWISCHI always thought that you gave up your legroom when you flew in coach.
Thats one secret I am not willing to discuss publicly in a public forum. I'll say this, if you never ask the airline you will never know. Most that fly Southwest and other airlines have a follow the herd mentality and never ask. :)
It is true that 15-17 hours is a sweet spot for a stand alone auto train, since you get 7 hours or so to unload and load the automobiles and send the train back in one day. Thus you get efficient use of equipment and only two trainsets are needed for daily operation. However, for a SW Chief auto train which only goes once a week, all you need is the 7 hours or so to unload and reload autoracks at Flagstaff, and catch the next SW Chief going east. It could leave Chicago on Thursday, arrive in Flagstaff on Friday, leave on Saturday and arrive back in Chicago on Sunday. It is not very efficient and the departure time on Saturday is horrible.
This could easily be shop talk, and one day the boss said check out the feasibility or not of an auto train going to Arizona. Here is what Larry Vollten, the operations supervisor for the Auto Train, said to the Chicago Tribune in 2010.
"The fascinating thing about this crowd is that we did a feasibility study in Chicago and it found there is the same clientele in Chicago as there is in the Northeast United States," Vollten said.
"The folks in Chicago go to Phoenix to winter over. So they were talking about the probability of putting an Auto Train on from Chicago to Phoenix and back, probably linking it up with one of our other western trains that already exist," Vollten said.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/travel/ct-xpm-2010-04-18-ct-met-getting-around-0419-20100418-story.html
Jim200"auto train west"
Nice story but I don't believe it.
Also, I might add to the list of facts on this thread. CSX was left holding the financial bag with the first Auto-Train bankruptcy even though it demanded payment in advance towards the end......it was still a creditor in the bankruptcy and the CEO of CSX went on record as saying that was it as far as his company was concerned they would have nothing more to do with any more passenger train experiments. So I am sure if you dug you can still find those comments online somewhere. Also sure it played a role in Amtrak decision making.
In regards to extending out West I am by no means a marketing guru but you can see via Auto-Train Corporation plans they thought that 15-17 hours running time was the sweet spot as far as their concept. If you can find a train that gets to Flagstaff in 15-17 hours, I think you would be swamped with regular people that wanted to ride it without the automobile. So I tend to think that whole story was BS.
So I would regulate the Auto-Train Southwest story as either Amtrak shop talk or marketing stupidity if they actually discussed it in detail in the company because they missed one of the basic formula inputs to the Auto-Train concept........relatively short running time spent on the train.
ThamasTehTrainLmao why are we talking about cars on a train forum? Nothing in this post is even about the auto train
All things considered - one long cat conveys the idea.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Paul of Covington I hate it when phones and cars are smarter than I am.
I hate it when phones and cars are smarter than I am.
And people wonder why I tell them "When I buy cars, I buy Model T's."
Figuratively speaking, mind you.
And Thamas, you're kind of "new to the fold" so let me explain it to you. Threads tend to go in whatever direction the commenters take them. As long as everyone's having fun, there's no harm done. Besides, you never know what you'll learn, do you? I've learned plenty, trust me!
JOHN L CLARK I can't see a midwest Autotrain or passenger service or a combination becoming reality. CSX and NS is going to squeal congestion and that'll be the end of that idea. Back when Amtrak's Autotrain was marginally profitable as mentioned elsewhere, there was talk of a midwest (ie Chicago) towards the west on the BNSF Southwest Chief route, I don't think the idea got off the ground account of equipment needs. But sure I saw something on this at one time.
I can't see a midwest Autotrain or passenger service or a combination becoming reality. CSX and NS is going to squeal congestion and that'll be the end of that idea. Back when Amtrak's Autotrain was marginally profitable as mentioned elsewhere, there was talk of a midwest (ie Chicago) towards the west on the BNSF Southwest Chief route, I don't think the idea got off the ground account of equipment needs. But sure I saw something on this at one time.
The discussion listed several reasons why Amtrak didn't have more auto trains: 1) Amtrak didn't have equipment and no money to buy equipment. 2) It would be difficult to get the railroads to agree to a new route. 3) Any new train would have to make money. 4) Only the Northeast to Florida has enough snowbirds to make it viable. 5) Autoracks on the rear of present Amtrak trains can't exceed 70 mph, thus slowing train speed. 6) Other reasons.
What Amtrak marketing had in mind was attaching autoracks to the Southwest Chief and going from Chicago to Flagstaff Arizona. This would be good for the snowbirds going to Phoenix, for the Grand Canyon, for Vegas, and a good start on California. Apparently only #6, other reasons, were problems with which Amtrak marketing was concerned. The schedule of the Chief was a little late, (presently 8:32 PM), causing the people, after they got their cars, to look for a hotel, a commodity that Flagstaff had few. The return schedule from Flagstaff was also poor, (presently at 4:09 AM). The schedule at Chicago was fine, but a determination of where to load and unload autoracks was necessary and this would probably be Joliet, due to nearness to various interstate highways.
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/why-only-one-auto-train-exists-in-usa.17659/page-3
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of CovingtonRecently, on my way home, I turned a corner and bumped something on the steering wheel (It's cluttered with a bunch of buttons and levers.), and it started beeping. I couldn't figure out what it wanted, so when I got home I sat in the driveway trying to figure out what to do.
This is ironic. I suspect you turned on voice command, and the car was prompting you to tell it what to do. But you didn't say anything (except under your breath), did you? Next time, tell it to shut up, and it probably will...
Lmao why are we talking about cars on a train forum? Nothing in this post is even about the auto train
One of the only railfans who gives a crap about the MMA, despite not living IN the northeast.
Paul of Covington I recently got a new car with a video arcade dash. It's constantly telling me all kinds of things I'm not interested in. Recently, on my way home, I turned a corner and bumped something on the steering wheel (It's cluttered with a bunch of buttons and levers.), and it started beeping. I couldn't figure out what it wanted, so when I got home I sat in the driveway trying to figure out what to do. I finally just turned the engine off.
Too many Millenials designing car dashes and controls - they think everyone wants to play video games.
I recently got a new car with a video arcade dash. It's constantly telling me all kinds of things I'm not interested in. Recently, on my way home, I turned a corner and bumped something on the steering wheel (It's cluttered with a bunch of buttons and levers.), and it started beeping. I couldn't figure out what it wanted, so when I got home I sat in the driveway trying to figure out what to do. I finally just turned the engine off.
BaltACDMy Ram has a electronic dash - I have it turned up to it's brightest setting - when the headlights kick on in daylight the dash is barely readable.
Can't manually turn it to daylight mode? That's weird. My chevy was able to do that. But you couldn't separate the brightness between the gauges in front of you to the center console. Way too much light in the center section at night. Wish more manufacturers would have picked up the SAAB night mode.
Although your dodge has the button to turn off the center screen? That's nice. Wish my Fords had that.
How people can drive those Teslas with that gigantic I-screen thing in the middle is beyond me. Then again, I like my locomotves with analog gauges any day.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann BaltACD The problem with Headlights on in daylight conditions - it dims the dash lights as is necessary to prevent blinding the driver with them in the dark of night - when they are dimmed in daylight they are barely visible. With the electronic dashboards is that much of an issue anymore? I know it isn't in either of my trucks (the one being almost 15 years old). And you can always adjust the brightness of the dash to daytime levels.
BaltACD The problem with Headlights on in daylight conditions - it dims the dash lights as is necessary to prevent blinding the driver with them in the dark of night - when they are dimmed in daylight they are barely visible.
With the electronic dashboards is that much of an issue anymore? I know it isn't in either of my trucks (the one being almost 15 years old). And you can always adjust the brightness of the dash to daytime levels.
My Ram has a electronic dash - I have it turned up to it's brightest setting - when the headlights kick on in daylight the dash is barely readable.
The down side - when I try to take a power nap and its dark - if I try to have the radio on - the dash lights are too bright, even when I have them turned all the way down and there is no way I have found to turn them off outside of not having the radio on.
BaltACDThe problem with Headlights on in daylight conditions - it dims the dash lights as is necessary to prevent blinding the driver with them in the dark of night - when they are dimmed in daylight they are barely visible.
blue streak 1 BaltACD There's plenty of people here driving in rainy, dismal weather without the headlights on. And some think because they have automatic daytime running lights they're covered. Uh-uh. Your daytime running headlights might be on but that doesn't mean your tail lights are! Drives me crazy... I finally solved these problems by keeping a dark cloth that I can place over the light sensor. Dark to prevent sun and light reflections. Solves the insurance cost reduction benefit as well.
BaltACD There's plenty of people here driving in rainy, dismal weather without the headlights on. And some think because they have automatic daytime running lights they're covered. Uh-uh. Your daytime running headlights might be on but that doesn't mean your tail lights are! Drives me crazy...
There's plenty of people here driving in rainy, dismal weather without the headlights on. And some think because they have automatic daytime running lights they're covered. Uh-uh. Your daytime running headlights might be on but that doesn't mean your tail lights are!
Drives me crazy...
I finally solved these problems by keeping a dark cloth that I can place over the light sensor. Dark to prevent sun and light reflections. Solves the insurance cost reduction benefit as well.
The problem with Headlights on in daylight conditions - it dims the dash lights as is necessary to prevent blinding the driver with them in the dark of night - when they are dimmed in daylight they are barely visible.
Convicted One BaltACD Using wipers, over time, will 'wear away' the Rain-X coating. I renew Rain-X about every 3 months. Clean the windshield well - XXX-Steel Wool the stubborn bug carcases. Apply the Rain-X with a paper towel that had been well moistened with Rain-X - apply generously and allow to dry - it will be streaky, smeary and hazy. Moisten a clean paper towel and polish the windshield to the point of it drying. Done! Feed back is much appreciated..... Thanks! How does scraping ice/frost affect the coating? Should one just natually expect to renew the coating each spring?
BaltACD Using wipers, over time, will 'wear away' the Rain-X coating. I renew Rain-X about every 3 months. Clean the windshield well - XXX-Steel Wool the stubborn bug carcases. Apply the Rain-X with a paper towel that had been well moistened with Rain-X - apply generously and allow to dry - it will be streaky, smeary and hazy. Moisten a clean paper towel and polish the windshield to the point of it drying. Done!
Feed back is much appreciated..... Thanks! How does scraping ice/frost affect the coating? Should one just natually expect to renew the coating each spring?
I try to 'snow bird' Winter as much as possible. Using the wipers over frost or ice - no matter how your windshield is coated will damage their wiping surface of the wipers. I try to put on new wipers after the snow season - for those in the South, the sun can 'kill' the rubber in the wiper blades during the Summer.
Rain-X doesn't really help dealing with salt spray - salt ends up being a kind of abrasive to the existance of any coatings on the outside of the windshield - fortunately windshield glass is harder than salt and doesn't get scratched or damaged from salt spray alone, however, if you are in a state that uses cinders in addition to salt - all bets are off.
As I said, I generally apply it every three months.
BaltACDUsing wipers, over time, will 'wear away' the Rain-X coating. I renew Rain-X about every 3 months. Clean the windshield well - XXX-Steel Wool the stubborn bug carcases. Apply the Rain-X with a paper towel that had been well moistened with Rain-X - apply generously and allow to dry - it will be streaky, smeary and hazy. Moisten a clean paper towel and polish the windshield to the point of it drying. Done!
Convicted One BaltACD Personally, I use Rain-X. I rarely have wipers on in the rain - if you are moving at anywhere near normal traffic speeds the water flies off the windshield in mini-micro drop form. Best thing is when overtaking a 18 wheeler and their 'blinding spray' - with Rain-X you can see right through it. You like it that well huh? I had a friend who recommended it to me, but it sounded too good to be true. I was used car shopping at the time, came across a sweet deal on a van that the windshield wipers didn't work, and he told me to just use Rain-X....that he personally hardly ever had to use the wipers...and it just sounded too far fetched to believe.
BaltACD Personally, I use Rain-X. I rarely have wipers on in the rain - if you are moving at anywhere near normal traffic speeds the water flies off the windshield in mini-micro drop form. Best thing is when overtaking a 18 wheeler and their 'blinding spray' - with Rain-X you can see right through it.
You like it that well huh? I had a friend who recommended it to me, but it sounded too good to be true.
I was used car shopping at the time, came across a sweet deal on a van that the windshield wipers didn't work, and he told me to just use Rain-X....that he personally hardly ever had to use the wipers...and it just sounded too far fetched to believe.
Believe it! The biggest issue is when it is foggy/misty and you are moving at low speeds - not generating enough air speed over the windshield to move the water, you may have to use the wipers on 'intermittent'.
Using wipers, over time, will 'wear away' the Rain-X coating. I renew Rain-X about every 3 months. Clean the windshield well - XXX-Steel Wool the stubborn bug carcases. Apply the Rain-X with a paper towel that had been well moistened with Rain-X - apply generously and allow to dry - it will be streaky, smeary and hazy. Moisten a clean paper towel and polish the windshield to the point of it drying. Done!
BaltACDPersonally, I use Rain-X. I rarely have wipers on in the rain - if you are moving at anywhere near normal traffic speeds the water flies off the windshield in mini-micro drop form. Best thing is when overtaking a 18 wheeler and their 'blinding spray' - with Rain-X you can see right through it.
I always thought that you gave up your legroom when you flew in coach.
CMStPnPSo, they are starting to get stupid on the carry on bags now. For all those retards that want to carry all their baggage on board they are now asking the considerate passengers who check their luggage as everyone is supposed to........to hold onto their carry-ons and jackets until all the rollaways are stowed so their is room in the baggage bins for the passengers trying to game the system. SCREW THAT!!! I never pay attention to the request though and my laptop and jacket go into the overhead before I sit down. No way am I giving up legroom I paid for so some idiot can attempt to squeeze all his luggage in the overhead bins. Make him or her check their bags!!!! Departures would be a lot faster if the airlines would enforce their stupid luggage rules.
I usually carry on a backpack (winter- ski boots, summer- hiking boots) and always cringe when the stewardess makes the anouncement about saving the overhead bins for the rollerboards. I too have paid for checking my other bag. I think about what argument I may give for keeping my pack in the overhead. But sadly, your only real choice is to comply with crew instructions, as all other alternatives will get you removed from the plane. So far I have not had to give up my legroom.
CMStPnPCMStPnP wrote the following post 30 minutes ago: charlie hebdo I would certainly fly and rent a car, if I really needed one, for a month- $850-900 in Orlando Well first, I have my doubts you would be comfortable in those very tiny cars for 30 days. Second when your talking 30 days or longer you want to ask about a short term lease rate........which should be cheaper that what you see quoted. Also, the expectation should be your not going to get the car or vehicle they have pictured for the rental or lease rate. Very rarely that I do. They are always doing a bait and switch. My last rental was a Ford Explorer pictured, got a Dodge Durango instead. Before that a Caddilac XT4 was pictured, got an Audi crossover instead.
1. I do not need to drive around in a boat. I am very comfortable in my VW.
2. I have rented cars many times on three continents. I get it.
Flintlock76No doubt Balt. Here in Virginia we have a "wipers on-lights on" law which doesn't seem to be enforced much either. At least not that I've seen. There's plenty of people here driving in rainy, dismal weather without the headlights on. And some think because they have automatic daytime running lights they're covered. Uh-uh. Your daytime running headlights might be on but that doesn't mean your tail lights are! Drives me crazy...
Personally, I use Rain-X. I rarely have wipers on in the rain - if you are moving at anywhere near normal traffic speeds the water flies off the windshield in mini-micro drop form. Best thing is when overtaking a 18 wheeler and their 'blinding spray' - with Rain-X you can see right through it. Without Rain-X you have water sheeting on the windshield and obscuring your vision.
My 2017 Ram 1500 has automatic headlights - it does get frustrating in varying 'low light' conditions as the head lights will come on and go off without warning. If I do have the wipers on for some reason, the headlights will be on regardless of the ambient lighting condition.
charlie hebdoI would certainly fly and rent a car, if I really needed one, for a month- $850-900 in Orlando
Well first, I have my doubts you would be comfortable in those very tiny cars for 30 days. Second when your talking 30 days or longer you want to ask about a short term lease rate........which should be cheaper that what you see quoted.
Also, the expectation should be your not going to get the car or vehicle they have pictured for the rental or lease rate. Very rarely that I do. They are always doing a bait and switch. My last rental was a Ford Explorer pictured, got a Dodge Durango instead. Before that a Caddilac XT4 was pictured, got an Audi crossover instead.
Flintlock76Uh-uh. Your daytime running headlights might be on but that doesn't mean your tail lights are! Drives me crazy...
Now you have all the people with glowing dashboards that will drive around in the middle of the night with no lights on. They're the best.
BaltACD Flintlock76 rdamon And the benefit of the afore mentioned driver not being in the left lane on I-95 A lot of states along I-95 have passed "Left-lane camper" laws, that is making it a moving violation to "camp out" in the left, or passing, lane and impede the traffic flow. Virginia passed one last year. Whether those laws are being enforced or not is another matter. I did an "up-and-down" trip on I-95 about two weeks ago and didn't really have a problem with left-lane campers. Two or three times yes, but not constantly, so maybe the laws are working. Do round trips on I-95 from Maryland to Florida about 3 times a year - have never seen police enforcing 'Left Lane Bandit' laws. There are probably more laws on the books that ARE NOT enforced than there are laws that are enforced.
Flintlock76 rdamon And the benefit of the afore mentioned driver not being in the left lane on I-95 A lot of states along I-95 have passed "Left-lane camper" laws, that is making it a moving violation to "camp out" in the left, or passing, lane and impede the traffic flow. Virginia passed one last year. Whether those laws are being enforced or not is another matter. I did an "up-and-down" trip on I-95 about two weeks ago and didn't really have a problem with left-lane campers. Two or three times yes, but not constantly, so maybe the laws are working.
rdamon And the benefit of the afore mentioned driver not being in the left lane on I-95
A lot of states along I-95 have passed "Left-lane camper" laws, that is making it a moving violation to "camp out" in the left, or passing, lane and impede the traffic flow. Virginia passed one last year.
Whether those laws are being enforced or not is another matter.
I did an "up-and-down" trip on I-95 about two weeks ago and didn't really have a problem with left-lane campers. Two or three times yes, but not constantly, so maybe the laws are working.
Do round trips on I-95 from Maryland to Florida about 3 times a year - have never seen police enforcing 'Left Lane Bandit' laws.
There are probably more laws on the books that ARE NOT enforced than there are laws that are enforced.
No doubt Balt. Here in Virginia we have a "wipers on-lights on" law which doesn't seem to be enforced much either. At least not that I've seen.
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