Electroliner 1935 Your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black.
Your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black.
He's stuck on this training mantra as the cure all for everything. Impossible for him to move beyond his perseveration.
I am reactive not proactive.
charlie hebdo Electroliner 1935 Your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black. He's stuck on this training mantra as the cure all for everything. Impossible for him to move beyond his perseveration.
So says the person who claims to have NO experience in the field on which he makes snarky comments.
There is no need to move beyond my "perseveration".
243129 charlie hebdo Electroliner 1935 Your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black. He's stuck on this training mantra as the cure all for everything. Impossible for him to move beyond his perseveration. So says the person who claims to have NO experience in the field on which he makes snarky comments. There is no need to move beyond my "perseveration".
Many RRers on here find your remarks off the mark, too. You are like a hammer. To you everything is a nail.
243129Should he be fired for insubordination there is not a law board in the country that would not rule in his favor.
Perhaps, unless the board accepts the railroad's position that he had adequate training. It is a matter of opinion on a technical subject where the board has little personal knowledge. But what does he do for income and expenses, including legal expenses, during the months or years waiting for the ruling to be finalized.
cx500 243129 Should he be fired for insubordination there is not a law board in the country that would not rule in his favor. Perhaps, unless the board accepts the railroad's position that he had adequate training. It is a matter of opinion on a technical subject where the board has little personal knowledge. But what does he do for income and expenses, including legal expenses, during the months or years waiting for the ruling to be finalized.
243129 Should he be fired for insubordination there is not a law board in the country that would not rule in his favor.
What would he do if because of his non qualification he was involved in an accident with multiple fatalities. Do you think the carrier would stand behind him?
charlie hebdo 243129 charlie hebdo Electroliner 1935 Your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black. He's stuck on this training mantra as the cure all for everything. Impossible for him to move beyond his perseveration. So says the person who claims to have NO experience in the field on which he makes snarky comments. There is no need to move beyond my "perseveration". Many RRers on here find your remarks off the mark, too. You are like a hammer. To you everything is a nail.
Coming from you that is hearsay. Let the "Many RRers" come forward and present their argument.
243129 charlie hebdo 243129 charlie hebdo Electroliner 1935 Your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black. He's stuck on this training mantra as the cure all for everything. Impossible for him to move beyond his perseveration. So says the person who claims to have NO experience in the field on which he makes snarky comments. There is no need to move beyond my "perseveration". Many RRers on here find your remarks off the mark, too. You are like a hammer. To you everything is a nail. Coming from you that is hearsay. Let the "Many RRers" come forward and present their argument.
Read the thread. They've weighed in and you've dismissed them. I will say no more as you obviously are fixated on your plan.
The final NTSB report will support my observations.
I think 243129 has a valid point which he has not expressed very well. If this engineer was a COMPETENT engineer, he would have known that the "Qualifying" that was supplied by Amtrak was absolutely inadequate. He would therefore been overzealous , if anything, with regard to the route. Instead, he apparently believed that the woefully and possibly , criminally inadequate training he received was adequate and merrily ran his train into a 30MPH curve at 78 MPH. This goes further than just the piss poor qualifying he received. An engineer who was qualified to carry passengers at 70+MPH on ANY track should have seen the failings and compensated for them. Apperently he felt qualified and that in itself shows a lack of competence.
243129 charlie hebdo Returning to 501 (or Philly), what do you think were the major factors for the loss of situational awareness, lack of familiarity with the route, poor training or impairment of focus (since you dislike cognitive processing deficits)? 14.5 miles of new 79 mph territory with a 30 mph speed restriction and he lost his situational awareness. This person did not possess the aptitude to become a locomotive engineer and Amtrak does not possess supervision qualified to assess whether or not a person has the aptitude for the position of locomotive engineer. That coupled with poor training and poor supervision was the RX for disaster. Amtrak has a history of the unknowing teaching the unknowing. Since retiring I have taken a train trip numerous times on the NEC and invariably I can feel ACSES 'running' the train. That tells me, and any other experienced railroader, that the operator is poorly qualified. I took a trip on the Auto Train and felt like I was in the caboose of a 125 car freight train. Upon arrival at Sanford the auto racks were cut away from the coaches and the crew had not set the brakes on the standing coaches before making the cut! Poor training at it's finest.
charlie hebdo Returning to 501 (or Philly), what do you think were the major factors for the loss of situational awareness, lack of familiarity with the route, poor training or impairment of focus (since you dislike cognitive processing deficits)?
Returning to 501 (or Philly), what do you think were the major factors for the loss of situational awareness, lack of familiarity with the route, poor training or impairment of focus (since you dislike cognitive processing deficits)?
14.5 miles of new 79 mph territory with a 30 mph speed restriction and he lost his situational awareness. This person did not possess the aptitude to become a locomotive engineer and Amtrak does not possess supervision qualified to assess whether or not a person has the aptitude for the position of locomotive engineer. That coupled with poor training and poor supervision was the RX for disaster. Amtrak has a history of the unknowing teaching the unknowing.
Since retiring I have taken a train trip numerous times on the NEC and invariably I can feel ACSES 'running' the train. That tells me, and any other experienced railroader, that the operator is poorly qualified.
I took a trip on the Auto Train and felt like I was in the caboose of a 125 car freight train. Upon arrival at Sanford the auto racks were cut away from the coaches and the crew had not set the brakes on the standing coaches before making the cut! Poor training at it's finest.
tdmidget, does this not express it well?
243129 - Your system?
https://www.railwayage.com/safety/ptsi-debuts-updated-route-learning-system/
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD 243129 - Your system? https://www.railwayage.com/safety/ptsi-debuts-updated-route-learning-system/
No
This is a presentation I made to Ms. Sarah Feinberg the then Administrator of the FRA in February 2016. They/she didn't listen either.
FRA PresentationAmtrak is still employing the hit and miss, trial and error tactics it has utilized since inception accompanied by inept,wasteful managerial practices and to this day has still not achieved that which it is capable of. Until recently Amtrak has trundled along despite their inadequacies because their veteran workforce was there to 'bail them out'. That resource is now dwindling and it is showing in recent mishaps. Amtrak's standard of excellence would be considered as mediocre elsewhere. During the past 24 months Amtrak has had two major incidents,the latest with fatalities, that are a result of their hiring and training procedures coupled with grossly unqualified supervision. Since 2011 I have implored Amtrak management to review their training and hiring practices and use the knowledge and input of their dwindling veteran workforce to no avail. I have written to Chairman of the Board Carper, President Boardman, Vice Presidents of Operations Geary and Stadtler, Vice President of Transportation Phelps, Congressmen John Mica, William Shuster, Senator Charles Grassley, Robert Samuelson of the Washington Post, Brian Ross of ABC, Bill O'Reilly and others pleading with them to have Amtrak review their hiring and training procedures and listen to their seasoned veteran workforce. All to no avail.V.P. Operations Stadtler, tiring of my constant emails, patronized me with a visit to Philadelphia with those responsible for the training program where they very politely nodded their heads in faux concern at my presentation. Sensing their disinterest in what I had to say I called an end to the meeting citing that I felt it was an exercise in futility and took the next train back to New Haven.I have stated repeatedly to all who would listen, and those listed above who did not, that with the right combination of these recently trained individuals it could be a prescription for disaster, a 'perfect storm' if you will. They have ignored all warning signs of impending disasters. There was the incident in November 2013 of an inexperienced and obviously poorly trained crew wandering six miles in the wrong direction on a foreign railroad. Still Amtrak did not review it's training and qualification regimens. Then came Frankford Jct.As a rule I try to refrain to telling anyone that 'I told you so' but after Frankford Jct. I felt that it was appropriate to do so in an effort to demonstratively drive home the fact that Amtrak's training and hiring programs are abject failures and downright dangerous. The following is my email of May15 2015 to Vice President of Operations D.J. Stadtler who has absolutely no previous experience in railroad operations. It was ignored.
Mr. Stadtler:The recent tragic event in North Philadelphia will have once again brought to light the inadequacies of Amtrak's training and hiring procedures. There are folks out 'there'still who have no business operating trains. Your training and hiring procedures, for lack of a better analogy, have come back to bite you in the ass once again. I had previously attempted to effect change by stressing the value and input of your veteran but aging remaining workforce to no avail.I no longer work for Amtrak , I retired in July 2014 after 51 years in the operating department. That being said I still retain the esprit de corps instilled in me by my employer 50 plus years ago and I feel that I would like to help restore the professionalism that existed before Amtrak and it's cadre of inexperienced managers eroded that attribute. I have a template for hiring and training. Should you be interested in seriously entertaining my ideas, this time, I would be happy to impart them, once again, to you.I have attached the presentation I made to CTO Nichols in December 2013 and my correspondence to then Vice President of Operations Richard Phelps for your perusal.In one of my missives I made reference to a prescription for disaster, a 'perfect storm'if you will, which sadly seems to have come to fruition.
Amtrak has what they call a state of the art training facility replete with simulators in Wilmington DE. This facility deals in generalities and generic examples of operating situations and is geared 90% to off corridor personnel with no instruction on electrical operations. Simulators are not much different than video games and offer no authentic situations i.e. distractions, weather, visibility and the fear factor is eliminated because there is no danger. Amtrak has the unknowing teaching the unknowing. If one were to check the day one pedigree of these so called instructors one would find that they themselves had minimal experience when they took the job. All of the technology such as Positive Train Control, speed control, cab signal etc. cannot preclude proper training and experience because if those systems were to fail, and they do, 90% of the present operating workforce, including supervision, would not have a clue as how to operate.A Federal Aviation Administration report, just made public,concerning the July 2013 Asiana crash says an over reliance on automated systems used by pilots in the cockpits of commercial airlines has led to accidents and safety incidents.The FAA report stresses the risk that future accidents could occur as commercial airline pilots become overly reliant on automated computer systems in the cockpit and lose their hands-on, manual flying skills.Here on Amtrak most trains are run by PTC with conductors, former co-workers of mine, saying ten or more penalty applications between NHV and Boston have become almost the norm.The training program for new hire AC's is an abysmal failure and the engineer training program while not as bad needs to be revamped.Screening applicants for engineer positions should be conducted by experienced veterans who can recognize if one possesses the acumen for such a position not a human resources team with no knowledge of operations. Excerpt from January 2011 letter to President Boardman:Railroading is not rocket science. The operating rules can be taught in a classroom but the implementation of them can only be taught in the field. Obviously Amtrak does not agree as it built what it perceives to be a state of the art training facility in Wilmington. Perhaps it is for other crafts but not for the T&E department. Nothing in this line of work beats on the job experience or hands on training. When Amtrak first took over, many T&E supervisors were drawn from the onboard services and baggage departments. That policy translates to zero operating experience which has ramifications to this day. Recently I have worked with employees, some with 20 years of service or more, who do not know how to hook up air hoses, switch freight ears, or how to give proper hand signals. These supposed "veterans" have also given improper indications of wayside signals. There are engineers that do not know the what the 'F'or'R' symbol on a locomotive depicts. Some lose time and are tentative because of equipment and physical characteristic unfamiliarity etc. How can those folks have been properly trained if management hadn't the knowledge to teach them? A word about Frankford Jct.I am convinced that findings will show that the engineer of train 188 suffered a loss of situational awareness which was coupled with inexperience and poor training. Who was the supervisor who qualified him on the territory?Amtrak has had plenty of warning signals which they ignored along with alarms and pleas from veteran employees like myself. Most veterans have thrown up their hands in an expression of futility. I have chosen not to.It is not that Amtrak functions badly but that it functions at all is what I find amazing. Every day is akin to a crapshoot and Amtrak more often than not has 'dodged the bullet'. Sooner or later that sort of luck will not hold. My veteran co-workers express amazement that there have not been more major accidents.
It appears to me to be little more than a complaint letter. No specifics about your program. To take a proposal seriously, the reader expects to see a rough outline with concrete specifics. That is true in almost any field. Maybe you have some good ideas to improve training, but you need to flesh it out in an organized fashion.
charlie hebdo It appears to me to be little more than a complaint letter. No specifics about your program. To take a proposal seriously, the reader expects to see a rough outline with concrete specifics. That is true in almost any field. Maybe you have some good ideas to improve training, but you need to flesh it out in an organized fashion.
It is a warning letter.
The specifics are:Chatsworth, Frankford Jct, Dupont et al.
If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al.
Complaints and Warnings are a dime a dozen - fixes are few and far between.
243129If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al.
That is not how the management world works. Here in my country, Germany, many large companies train managers with personnel responsibility how to handle mistakes without degrading people.
You may get the attention when, figuratively speaking, kicking their shinbone with your letters. They are attentive but not in the mood you want them. You drove them into a defensive position where they will only try to justify/defend the Amtrak training program.
Why don't you send them your program? After all you say that it is all about Amtrak safety. So why care, if Amtrak calls it its own, when it improves the safety?Regards, Volker
At least three letters/warnings, none with even a rough, bullet point summary of a proposed program. And telling later recipients that you walked out of a meeting is not the way to get a fair hearing. I will assume you were a skilled engineer. And I will even assume you had a good training/supervision proposal. But you clearly need help/coaching from someone experienced in making effective, persuasive corporate presentations. It is also a skill that requires training and experience. I would strongly encourage you to seek it.
BaltACD Complaints and Warnings are a dime a dozen - fixes are few and far between.
So with your alleged time in the trenches,which by the way you never answered as to how long you spent or what you did there, what would your fix be?
VOLKER LANDWEHR 243129 If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al. That is not how the management world works. Here in my country, Germany, many large companies train managers with personnel responsibility how to handle mistakes without degrading people. You may get the attention when, figuratively speaking, kicking their shinbone with your letters. They are attentive but not in the mood you want them. You drove them into a defensive position where they will only try to justify/defend the Amtrak training program. Why don't you send them your program? After all you say that it is all about Amtrak safety. So why care, if Amtrak calls it its own, when it improves the safety?Regards, Volker
243129 If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al.
And reward them for their arrogance?
charlie hebdo At least three letters/warnings, none with even a rough, bullet point summary of a proposed program. And telling later recipients that you walked out of a meeting is not the way to get a fair hearing. I will assume you were a skilled engineer. And I will even assume you had a good training/supervision proposal. But you clearly need help/coaching from someone experienced in making effective, persuasive corporate presentations. It is also a skill that requires training and experience. I would strongly encourage you to seek it.
Dale Carnegie I am not. I'm not about to kiss anyone's ass to get them to listen to me. They have been warned and I have left a paper trail. They have chosen not to listen. After the next disaster, and there will be one, I will blitz the media,FRA ,Congress and the NTSB with all the pertinent correspondences.
243129 VOLKER LANDWEHR 243129 If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al. That is not how the management world works. Here in my country, Germany, many large companies train managers with personnel responsibility how to handle mistakes without degrading people. You may get the attention when, figuratively speaking, kicking their shinbone with your letters. They are attentive but not in the mood you want them. You drove them into a defensive position where they will only try to justify/defend the Amtrak training program. Why don't you send them your program? After all you say that it is all about Amtrak safety. So why care, if Amtrak calls it its own, when it improves the safety?Regards, Volker And reward them for their arrogance?
According to you, their "arrogance" is getting people killed. Wouldn't you be rewarding the potential victims? Don't you have the moral responsiblity to do everything in your power, even if you don't the credit, to do everything in your power to "save" them?
An "expensive model collector"
243129And reward them for their arrogance?
There is a saying: You are treated as you treat others.
And I believed that it was really all about safety at Amtrak. Sounds now more like ego or hurt vanity.Regards, Volker
On your tombstone will be engraved -
'Here lies 243129 - He had a plan, Amtrak wouldn't buy it.'
VOLKER LANDWEHR 243129 And reward them for their arrogance? There is a saying: You are treated as you treat others. And I believed that it was really all about safety at Amtrak. Sounds now more like ego or hurt vanity.Regards, Volker
243129 And reward them for their arrogance?
Johnny
n012944 243129 VOLKER LANDWEHR 243129 If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al. That is not how the management world works. Here in my country, Germany, many large companies train managers with personnel responsibility how to handle mistakes without degrading people. You may get the attention when, figuratively speaking, kicking their shinbone with your letters. They are attentive but not in the mood you want them. You drove them into a defensive position where they will only try to justify/defend the Amtrak training program. Why don't you send them your program? After all you say that it is all about Amtrak safety. So why care, if Amtrak calls it its own, when it improves the safety?Regards, Volker And reward them for their arrogance? According to you, their "arrogance" is getting people killed. Wouldn't you be rewarding the potential victims? Don't you have the moral responsiblity to do everything in your power, even if you don't the credit, to do everything in your power to "save" them?
Does not Amtrak have the moral responsibility pay attention to the warnings and entertain the offer of help?
True. Amtrak has responded to my entreaties in a cavalier manner. What it sounds like to you is of no concern to me.
BaltACD 243129 And reward them for their arrogance? On your tombstone will be engraved - 'Here lies 243129 - He had a plan, Amtrak wouldn't buy it.'
'Here lies BaltACD- When confronted he runs and hides.'
243129 BaltACD 243129 And reward them for their arrogance? On your tombstone will be engraved - 'Here lies 243129 - He had a plan, Amtrak wouldn't buy it.' On your tombstone will be engraved - 'Here lies BaltACD- When confronted he runs and hides.'
I'm not buying your training program either.
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