Another random thought. Moorman stated that the East river tunnels need work under Gateway as well. Boardman neglected to ever mention that overhaul as being needed for "Sandy" repairs and Gateway work ?
It would be hard to add any LD routes as AMTRAK has no extra equipment. What could be done is to revisit the PRIIAs of 2008-2010 to reconfigure the existing network.
1. Transfer a sleeper and at least one coach from the LSL to the CL to provide thru service to Philadelphia and NYC. Make the PITT-NYC segment a section of the CL and negotiate with Pennsylvania for a second NY-PITT train. Reroute the tain thru Fort Wayne and Butler, IN.
2. Split the METEOR at Jacksonville with the Miami section running via the FEC.
3. Extend the PALMETTO to Jacksonville.
4. Whenever the Wisconsin Talgos enter California service the freed up Horizon and Amfleet cars along with several of the new Viewliner II sleepers should be put in service on the proposed NO-ORL train.
5.Get the VERMONTER into Montreal.
6. Bisect the CARDINAL. Run a daily NY-CIN service combing with
the PALMETTO NY-DC together with a daily
CIN-IND-CHI train on a schedule that makes the western connections.
bill613a It would be hard to add any LD routes as AMTRAK has no extra equipment. What could be done is to revisit the PRIIAs of 2008-2010 to reconfigure the existing network. 1. Transfer a sleeper and at least one coach from the LSL to the CL to provide thru service to Philadelphia and NYC. Make the PITT-NYC segment a section of the CL and negotiate with Pennsylvania for a second NY-PITT train. Reroute the tain thru Fort Wayne and Butler, IN. 2. Split the METEOR at Jacksonville with the Miami section running via the FEC. 3. Extend the PALMETTO to Jacksonville. 4. Whenever the Wisconsin Talgos enter California service the freed up Horizon and Amfleet cars along with several of the new Viewliner II sleepers should be put in service on the proposed NO-ORL train. 5.Get the VERMONTER into Montreal. 6. Bisect the CARDINAL. Run a daily NY-CIN service combing with the PALMETTO NY-DC together with a daily CIN-IND-CHI train on a schedule that makes the western connections.
Amtrak ever thinks outside the Box with different ideas, with the with amtrak train routes. Maybe with Wick we can get little more Amtrak with the Current Cars and Routes.
It seems that Wick Moorman is focusing on getting Amtrak's house in order. Amtrak was not functioning well enough to think about growing. The first step is creating managment that can develop and act on things that improve Amtrak's routes and service. Wick has been spending his time getting the right people in the right jobs. That's mostly been completed. Next step is to completely understand what you're doing and how to make service great and consistent. That's what's happening now. Trying to understand relationships between service and pricing, for example. Also, rolling out a comprehensive training plan to improve and make consistent on-board service.
Only when that is completed, Amtrak can focus on ways to grow that make economic sense. That's probably a year or so off.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd It seems that Wick Moorman is focusing on getting Amtrak's house in order. Only when that is completed, Amtrak can focus on ways to grow that make economic sense. That's probably a year or so off.
It seems that Wick Moorman is focusing on getting Amtrak's house in order.
RR Johnson ... Run the Cascades overnight... all done with existing equipment that is now idling overnight. The same goes for the Midwest: overnight between Chicago and Detroit, Pontiac; between Chicago and St Louis; between St Louis and Kansas City...These are huge untapped markets!!...
... Run the Cascades overnight... all done with existing equipment that is now idling overnight. The same goes for the Midwest: overnight between Chicago and Detroit, Pontiac; between Chicago and St Louis; between St Louis and Kansas City...These are huge untapped markets!!...
Run overnight trains on 5 hour routes? These are not untapped markets, these are irrational markets.
MidlandMike RR Johnson ... Run the Cascades overnight... all done with existing equipment that is now idling overnight. The same goes for the Midwest: overnight between Chicago and Detroit, Pontiac; between Chicago and St Louis; between St Louis and Kansas City...These are huge untapped markets!!... Run overnight trains on 5 hour routes? These are not untapped markets, these are irrational markets.
Johnny
As Mike says, why would anyone other than some nostalgia buffs want to ride in a sleeper for a night ride of 9-10 hours (9pm-7am) on a line where 5 hours is standard and you could sleep much better in a hotel.
CHI-MSP might work. The Milwaukee Road ran the Pioneer Ltd. on a 9-9.5 hour overnight schedule as late as Oct. 1968.
The Burlington ran the Blackhawk on a 9.5 hour overnight schedule as late as June 1968, but it was combined with the Mainstreeter and Western Star which ran to Seattle.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm MidlandMike RR Johnson ... Run the Cascades overnight... all done with existing equipment that is now idling overnight. The same goes for the Midwest: overnight between Chicago and Detroit, Pontiac; between Chicago and St Louis; between St Louis and Kansas City...These are huge untapped markets!!... Run overnight trains on 5 hour routes? These are not untapped markets, these are irrational markets. As Mike says, why would anyone other than some nostalgia buffs want to ride in a sleeper for a night ride of 9-10 hours (9pm-7am) on a line where 5 hours is standard and you could sleep much better in a hotel. CHI-MSP might work. The Milwaukee Road ran the Pioneer Ltd. on a 9-9.5 hour overnight schedule as late as Oct. 1968. The Burlington ran the Blackhawk on a 9.5 hour overnight schedule as late as June 1968, but it was combined with the Mainstreeter and Western Star which ran to Seattle.
Who said anything about sleepers? On a trial basis why not a weekemd only CHI-STL & CHI-DET service to tap the numerous colleges on these routes and people going to/from Chicago?
bill613a Who said anything about sleepers? On a trial basis why not a weekemd only CHI-STL & CHI-DET service to tap the numerous colleges on these routes and people going to/from Chicago?
On the Detroit Route the big colleges along the line are WMU in Kalamazoo (which I attended) and UofM in Ann Arbor and Wayne State in Detroit. i never would have gotten up in the middle of the night to take a coach to Chicago 3 hours away.
If you had taken an earlier train into Chicago you could have stayed for a Cubs or White Sox night game.
I generally slept well in sleeping cars. There were a few exceptions, the Buffalo shuffle, well reported. and similarly in an Everglades 14-roomette ACL car at Florence. Otherwise, in everything from Double Bedroom to single Slumbercoach and a Newfoiundland narrow-gauge upper berth, no complaints. I found it far, far more convenient and relaxing to sleep overnight than to rush on an evening flight or fast train to spnd a night in a hotel. I must have used the Owl between Boston and NYC at least 200 times, and the Federal Boston - Baltimore or Washington 100 times.
Somehow, the PRR Harrisburg shuffle was never as bad as the Central at Buffalo. And the few I times I was able to use the Century, I appreciated the lack of Buiffalo shuffle. And somehow, when the name trains were discontinued, and we only had the "The Steel Fleet," the shuffle was ameliarated and did not get worse. Wonder why? Maybe more time to do the car sorting? Possibly the fact that cars were now grouped as to origin and destination, without pure separation of sleeper and coach, helped.
Amtrak has several additional Midwest routes that serve colleges. But night trains make little sense on ~2-6 hour runs.
RR Johnson bill613a It would be hard to add any LD routes as AMTRAK has no extra equipment. What could be done is to revisit the PRIIAs of 2008-2010 to reconfigure the existing network. 1. Transfer a sleeper and at least one coach from the LSL to the CL to provide thru service to Philadelphia and NYC. Make the PITT-NYC segment a section of the CL and negotiate with Pennsylvania for a second NY-PITT train. Reroute the tain thru Fort Wayne and Butler, IN. 2. Split the METEOR at Jacksonville with the Miami section running via the FEC. 3. Extend the PALMETTO to Jacksonville. 4. Whenever the Wisconsin Talgos enter California service the freed up Horizon and Amfleet cars along with several of the new Viewliner II sleepers should be put in service on the proposed NO-ORL train. 5.Get the VERMONTER into Montreal. 6. Bisect the CARDINAL. Run a daily NY-CIN service combing with the PALMETTO NY-DC together with a daily CIN-IND-CHI train on a schedule that makes the western connections. All: Why not extend the Heartland Flyer to meet #3 & 4 (the SW Chief) at Newton, KS overnight using the same equipment, instead of leaving it sit at Oklahoma City, all night. Run the San Joaquin's with connecting buses to LA overnight. Run the Cascades overnight. Run the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack overnight, all done with existing equipment that is now idling overnight. The same goes for the Midwest: overnight between Chicago and Detroit, Pontiac; between Chicago and St Louis; between St Louis and Kansas City; and why not scrounge up some of the now surplus Iowa Pacific equipment including maybe a sleeper or two, and run overnight between Chicago, Milwaukee and the Twin Cities!! These are huge untapped markets!!...............Yours truly, Edward Johnson (aka RRJohnson).
All: Why not extend the Heartland Flyer to meet #3 & 4 (the SW Chief) at Newton, KS overnight using the same equipment, instead of leaving it sit at Oklahoma City, all night. Run the San Joaquin's with connecting buses to LA overnight. Run the Cascades overnight. Run the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack overnight, all done with existing equipment that is now idling overnight. The same goes for the Midwest: overnight between Chicago and Detroit, Pontiac; between Chicago and St Louis; between St Louis and Kansas City; and why not scrounge up some of the now surplus Iowa Pacific equipment including maybe a sleeper or two, and run overnight between Chicago, Milwaukee and the Twin Cities!! These are huge untapped markets!!...............Yours truly, Edward Johnson (aka RRJohnson).
oltmannd .....I'd root for AC rebuilds of P42's, though. Most bang for the buck and not icky Tier 4 involvement. .....My hunch is that we'll see new NEC cars before we see new or more Superliners. Those things will last forever and Amtrak doesn't need more. A good refitting is in order, though. Perhaps Viewliner coaches?
.....My hunch is that we'll see new NEC cars before we see new or more Superliners. Those things will last forever and Amtrak doesn't need more. A good refitting is in order, though. Perhaps Viewliner coaches?
Oltmannd:
What would be the practicable life expectancy for a rebuilt P42? Same question with respect for rebuilt Superliner cars.
I would be surprised if there is any money for new cars for the long distance trains. It appears Amtrak will have to rely on what they have and refurbish it.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
JPS1 oltmannd .....I'd root for AC rebuilds of P42's, though. Most bang for the buck and not icky Tier 4 involvement. .....My hunch is that we'll see new NEC cars before we see new or more Superliners. Those things will last forever and Amtrak doesn't need more. A good refitting is in order, though. Perhaps Viewliner coaches? Oltmannd: What would be the practicable life expectancy for a rebuilt P42? Same question with respect for rebuilt Superliner cars. I would be surprised if there is any money for new cars for the long distance trains. It appears Amtrak will have to rely on what they have and refurbish it.
I would think you could get another 20-25 years out of them, just doing the usual heavy maintenance along the way. Converting them to AC should help with reliability, too.
I agree that we won't see any new long distance cars, but complete rebuilding would certainly be a necessity, probably soon.
There just isn't any new technology (other than AC conversion of locomotives) that would render any the P42s or Superliners obsolete.
oltmannd JPS1 oltmannd .....I'd root for AC rebuilds of P42's, though. Most bang for the buck and not icky Tier 4 involvement. .....My hunch is that we'll see new NEC cars before we see new or more Superliners. Those things will last forever and Amtrak doesn't need more. A good refitting is in order, though. Perhaps Viewliner coaches? Oltmannd: What would be the practicable life expectancy for a rebuilt P42? Same question with respect for rebuilt Superliner cars. I would be surprised if there is any money for new cars for the long distance trains. It appears Amtrak will have to rely on what they have and refurbish it. I would think you could get another 20-25 years out of them, just doing the usual heavy maintenance along the way. Converting them to AC should help with reliability, too. I agree that we won't see any new long distance cars, but complete rebuilding would certainly be a necessity, probably soon. There just isn't any new technology (other than AC conversion of locomotives) that would render any the P42s or Superliners obsolete.
The Superliners 1 are 35 plus years old and Superliner 2 are 23 years old cars. We should least replace the Superliners 1 with a New Car Order. Since the 1 are 35 years old.
conrailman oltmannd JPS1 oltmannd .....I'd root for AC rebuilds of P42's, though. Most bang for the buck and not icky Tier 4 involvement. .....My hunch is that we'll see new NEC cars before we see new or more Superliners. Those things will last forever and Amtrak doesn't need more. A good refitting is in order, though. Perhaps Viewliner coaches? Oltmannd: What would be the practicable life expectancy for a rebuilt P42? Same question with respect for rebuilt Superliner cars. I would be surprised if there is any money for new cars for the long distance trains. It appears Amtrak will have to rely on what they have and refurbish it. I would think you could get another 20-25 years out of them, just doing the usual heavy maintenance along the way. Converting them to AC should help with reliability, too. I agree that we won't see any new long distance cars, but complete rebuilding would certainly be a necessity, probably soon. There just isn't any new technology (other than AC conversion of locomotives) that would render any the P42s or Superliners obsolete. The Superliners 1 are 35 plus years old and Superliner 2 are 23 years old cars. We should least replace the Superliners 1 with a New Car Order. Since the 1 are 35 years old.
Age doesn't matter. It might make sense to retruck the Superliner 1's with Amtrak's current standard, though.
A rebuild would otherwise make them "like new". Strip down to carbody and completely rewire and bring plumbing up to snuff. Rebuild all the mechanicals and support equipment. New interior and away you go for another 20-25 years or so. Good as new at half or 2/3 the cost of new.
During a Nov 7th Cincinnati Railroad Club tour of Amtrak's Beech Grove Repair Facility shops, we saw a number of Superliners in various stages of refurbishment. They put them on shop trucks, strip all paint and decals off the exterior, remove all of the interior, replace the HVAC, deep clean the waste retention tanks, rewire what needs upgrading, install new water heaters, etc. Rebuild the trucks, repaint the exterior and send a car that is ready for years of service. I did not get a feel for how many cars were in plans for rebuilds. They had reduced the head count and I suspect that they are not rebuilding as many as need rotation through the shops.
Electroliner 1935 During a Nov 7th Cincinnati Railroad Club tour of Amtrak's Beech Grove Repair Facility shops, we saw a number of Superliners in various stages of refurbishment. They put them on shop trucks, strip all paint and decals off the exterior, remove all of the interior, replace the HVAC, deep clean the waste retention tanks, rewire what needs upgrading, install new water heaters, etc. Rebuild the trucks, repaint the exterior and send a car that is ready for years of service. I did not get a feel for how many cars were in plans for rebuilds. They had reduced the head count and I suspect that they are not rebuilding as many as need rotation through the shops.
Any Pictures??
Who thinks that Iowa Pacific Hoosier state cars received the same kind of rebuilding, other than cosmetically being touched up and work mandated by the 40 year inspection.
ROBERT WILLISON Who thinks that Iowa Pacific Hoosier state cars received the same kind of rebuilding, other than cosmetically being touched up and work mandated by the 40 year inspection.
The usual suspects will!!
Hoosier State passenger loadings Oct-Dec 2016 were about 9.6% above the period one year earlier. This amounts to 726 more passengers, less than 14 more per run. One wonders if it was worth the contract?
The other thing I don't understand with Mr. Ellis. Why he would pay good money to paint over stainless steel when he could have acid washed it instead. It isn't cheap to paint a passenger car and I am not sure it is less expensive than an acid wash and refinsh of the stainless steel. But not an expert. Would be curious to find out. Understood they all look better in the same paint scheme but in the long run maintenance wise wouldn't it have been cheaper converting the painted cars over to stainless steel cover?
CMStPnP ROBERT WILLISON Who thinks that Iowa Pacific Hoosier state cars received the same kind of rebuilding, other than cosmetically being touched up and work mandated by the 40 year inspection. The other thing I don't understand with Mr. Ellis. Why he would pay good money to paint over stainless steel when he could have acid washed it instead. It isn't cheap to paint a passenger car and I am not sure it is less expensive than an acid wash and refinsh of the stainless steel. But not an expert. Would be curious to find out. Understood they all look better in the same paint scheme but in the long run maintenance wise wouldn't it have been cheaper converting the painted cars over to stainless steel cover?
I guess he was an IC fan?
oltmannd Age doesn't matter. It might make sense to retruck the Superliner 1's with Amtrak's current standard, though. A rebuild would otherwise make them "like new". Strip down to carbody and completely rewire and bring plumbing up to snuff. Rebuild all the mechanicals and support equipment. New interior and away you go for another 20-25 years or so. Good as new at half or 2/3 the cost of new.
But, but older cars are bad. I would much rather ride an Acela coach through the farm lands of middle America......
An "expensive model collector"
New Cars are better to maintain than 35 years old cars. They don't make the parts anymore for old cars.
conrailman New Cars are better to maintain than 35 years old cars. They don't make the parts anymore for old cars.
Its amazing what one can do with a good machine shop and a fleet of cars to take parts off of.
Since certain posters like to make comparisons between aircraft fleets and railcar fleets, well....
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/delta-buys-sas-md-80s-parts
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