Trains.com

Passenger trains and coal

6635 views
40 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Friday, May 20, 2016 9:33 PM

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), by 2020, which is just four short years away, manditory federal programs, such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other manditory federal programs, will consume 88 per cent of federal receipts. 

Most of the money for defense and other non-manditory programs - $683 billion and $648 billion - will have to be borrowed.  Which leaves this question. 

Where would the federal government get the money to buy excess capacity rail lines for future use?

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, May 20, 2016 3:15 PM

Its a great idea for the federal government to buy excess rail lines for future use or expansion of HSR. The problem is they don't even want to invest in or improve existing Amtrak service. Thier is no incentives to improve faster speed  rail service, like Illinois, Michigan and other states. Banking of moth ball rail lines is beyond the vision of those currently in Washington.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Friday, May 20, 2016 11:30 AM

Dragoman

 

 
dakotafred

 

 

 
schlimm

Excess capacity that could be used for passenger services should be bought up by the fed.  It would help the freight rails, and probably would not be all that expensive.

 

 

 

I agree. For the feds, pocket change in the big scheme of things, and investment in infrastructure for once. They could make a low-ball offer, and see what the rails say. I'll bet the rails would jump.

The rails -- who else? -- would still get the traffic, if it ever came back, and meanwhile upkeep is on the government. 

 

 

 

Great idea, but I doubt the railroads would bite.  Problem is, today's "excess capacity" might quickly be needed by them if there were a sudden uptick in freight rtaffic.  Then they would have to buy it back from Amtrak?

 

#1  Probably better to have a separate, quasi-governmental unit own and maintain tracks, as elsewhere.

#2  Freight lines might be able to run on the non-dedicated, HrSR tracks, but it would depend on their methods and crgo types.  Slow, heavy bulk cargo no, but much of that, coal at least, is not returning anyway.  Fast merchandise trains on schedules at night would be compatible, even some in daytime, again as seen overseas.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • 422 posts
Posted by Dragoman on Friday, May 20, 2016 11:23 AM

dakotafred

 

 

 
schlimm

Excess capacity that could be used for passenger services should be bought up by the fed.  It would help the freight rails, and probably would not be all that expensive.

 

 

 

I agree. For the feds, pocket change in the big scheme of things, and investment in infrastructure for once. They could make a low-ball offer, and see what the rails say. I'll bet the rails would jump.

The rails -- who else? -- would still get the traffic, if it ever came back, and meanwhile upkeep is on the government. 

 

Great idea, but I doubt the railroads would bite.  Problem is, today's "excess capacity" might quickly be needed by them if there were a sudden uptick in freight rtaffic.  Then they would have to buy it back from Amtrak?

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • 422 posts
Posted by Dragoman on Friday, May 20, 2016 11:20 AM

conrailman

Its not worth to Save Amtrak 50&51 trains. Its very slow and long ride from New York to Chicago, IL. Plus just 3 days week train not very good for Travel days, just 3 a week.My 2 Cents

 

It's not the New York to Chicago traffic that makes the Cardinal important.  It's all the stops in between, many of which have no other service.

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, May 20, 2016 8:34 AM

Just thinking out loud, could  the cardinal be rerouted Thur Cleveland via cinncy. This would hurt the folks in west Virginia but return service from the north coast ( ie Syracuse,  Rochester, Buffalo,  Cleveland) and restoring service  to Columbus Ohio, one of the fastest growing areas of Ohio. This would reconnect many city to city connections that  disappeared may 1, 1971.

Just a thought.

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Friday, May 20, 2016 6:59 AM

schlimm

Excess capacity that could be used for passenger services should be bought up by the fed.  It would help the freight rails, and probably would not be all that expensive.

 

I agree. For the feds, pocket change in the big scheme of things, and investment in infrastructure for once. They could make a low-ball offer, and see what the rails say. I'll bet the rails would jump.

The rails -- who else? -- would still get the traffic, if it ever came back, and meanwhile upkeep is on the government. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa
  • 830 posts
Posted by conrailman on Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:42 PM

Its not worth to Save Amtrak 50&51 trains. Its very slow and long ride from New York to Chicago, IL. Plus just 3 days week train not very good for Travel days, just 3 a week.My 2 Cents

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:40 PM

Excess capacity that could be used for passenger services should be bought up by the fed.  It would help the freight rails, and probably would not be all that expensive.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:25 PM

Couldn't agree with you fellows more. But saving the lines, or preserving their good repair, is only part of it. That's a decision that will be made by the owners, as is proper. But is the public sector ready to jump in, in a timely fashion, with a contribution to that decision, support for passenger rail?

Somehow, I doubt it. There might be expressions of interest, followed by no end of dithering. In the meantime, the lines will slide, and it will not be the rails' fault. It will be hard to blame the statehouses, either, given the ferocious appetites of the Big Three of public spending in all states: public schools, human services and higher ed.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, May 19, 2016 6:27 PM

Unfortunatly people and their politicians still don't appreciate passenger rail, so I don't see much change.  Another route threatened by the loss of coal is the ex-Rio Grande route of Amtrak's Zephyr thru Colorado and Utah.  See Jim Wrinn's blog.

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • 19 posts
Passenger trains and coal
Posted by zaleski on Thursday, May 19, 2016 4:20 PM

Dramatic changes are taking place in the transportation of coal.  CSX and NS which took wealth from coal to gain control of major railroads in the East, are making largr cuts, adjusting to lower coal shipments.  This could have large impact on passenger routes.  I understand CSX is considering reduction of track quality/speed on the former C&O between Cincinnati and Huntington.  Also on the Cardinal route,  the B&B line might  downgrade and be less desirable for the Cardinal.  This could happen to coal hauling lines throught the country. 

In some cases, less coal might open up lines for additional passenger trains.  In most cases, lines will get a downgrade or abandonmnet, making passenger trains less possible.  I hope whatever happens will not repeat the cutbacks of mainlines that took place in the 1970's and 1980's.  Then lines that might have been ideal for passengers then or now got pulled up. Prime examples are the route St. Louis to Pittsburgh and the S-Line Richmond to Raleigh and Savannah to Jacksonville.  Back when this took place, the interstates were new and not in gridlock, airports were easy and served most areas, and many downtown rail stations were dangerous to reach.  It was hard to imagine that we might need some of these lines and stations in the future.   Now the future is here and some of these lines could help with inter and intra-city transportation.  One other item, US population is up over 100 million since 1970.  This and the decline of the interstates and air transportation makes the abandoning some rail lines close to a national disaster.  I hope we do not get a repeat of the 1970's and 1980's.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy