I agree. A service needs to have fast, frequent trains, at convenient intervals, that is quicker than driving or taking a bus. 45 mph trains 10X per day is not a service, just a memorial to olden times.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
But again Schlimm you are talking a train on a route rather than train service on a route. Legacy LD does not make sense because Amtrak (i.e, Congress) does not think in terms of service but in return on investment counted in votes not dollars.. NYC ran dozens of trains a day on the route giving service until airlines and Eisenhower highways took over. Today, the marketplace has changed with airline delays and crowded highways, fuel costs and pollution. It is time to look at rail passenger trains in terms of moving people in a reliable, safe, environmentally "friendly", and economic manner. IF there is to be passenger service al all that is. If no passenger service (service not trains) then don't worry, just pour more concrete and hire more airline security and leave the tracks to the freight. Then see what happens.
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That is exactly the point. These legacy LD routes make little sense today. They are simply the skeleton of train services from another, very different era before air travel was so accessible and prior to the Interstate highway system. The policy should concentrate on services in appropriate corridors, where rail travel could be a viable alternative to overcrowded road and air routes. And that means frequent, fast services at convenient times throughout the day, not 1-2 trains running slowly like the Lake Shore Limited - 20 hours (but usually late) versus 16 hours (60 mph) in the NYC days on that route, when that average speed was still competitive with propeller aircraft or the highway. It is way too long a route for any service at almost any speed, but 43.6 mph is a joke.
But one or even two trains a day does not a service make. It is running trains. And when you run trains instead of providing service, you lose money. Got a cofee shop? Just sell coffee? No.. you got to have coffee when people want coffe and you've got to have doughnuts and other things to boot.
The so-called service, Lake Shore Limited, had a loss of $38 mil. in September. And it is hardly the worst of the LB "services" as the Empire Builder lost $61.6 mil. in September.
I guess my point, on which I agree with Sam1, is that given limited resources, since the market is not making the determination, it is very important that we allocate them wisely. For the most part, the enormous losses which these archaic, legacy LD routes accumulate, cannot be justified and the resources should be shifted to the shorter corridor services and new ones to be determined by market analysis.
Everytime this subject is discussed a passenger count at a particlular moment is used as the bellweather. The real accounting is in the term "service' rather than the concept of running a train. Amtrak, like commuter trains, airplanes, and buses, has to be operated as a complete service rather than the running of individual trains (the flying of airplanes, and the driving of buses). As a service it has to be available with a consistant capacity and schedule with a frequency that serves the public and its purpose. Maybe there are ten passengers at 1AM Tuesday at milepost 479 (train, plane, bus) but 200 or 400 or whatever at another time on another day of the week. The daily total, the weekly total, the monthly total are all factors to be looked at seperately for different answers to different questions.
Yes, but I doubt the fire crew knew how to separate the system. I suspect the train crew isolated the front loco and pulled the train back away from the burning loco. Too many hoses and cables to do this with an ax.
If you read the 2nd article, it sounds like the three-member engine crew got out of the engine, leaving it to the fire department to separate the burning lead engine from the rest of the train.
schlimm http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/12/engine-fire-on-chicago-nyc-amtrak-train.html Notice there were only 128 passengers. Why is this train continuing?
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/12/engine-fire-on-chicago-nyc-amtrak-train.html
Notice there were only 128 passengers. Why is this train continuing?
Not to be snippy but probably the same reason my 228 seat sold out airplane only had 15 passengers after a bad snowstom out of Chicago ORD.
This occurrence surely point to the need for more than one locomotive especially during bad weather events. It was probably a good decision to leave the train at that station until at least a freight locomotive was coupled up.
Looks like a major fire. Apparently there were too Genesis locos and they were able to separate the second and keep it running hotel load.
http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2010/12/15/photo-gallery-amtrak-passenger-train-engine-catches-fire-in-elyria/
During FY10 the average load factor on the Lake Shore Limited was approximately 61%, which mirrors the average factor for all the long distance trains.
A relatively small per cent of the long distance train passengers ride from end point to end point. If I remember correctly from the California Zypher Improvement Study, only four per cent of its passengers ride it from end point to end point. On my two trips this year on the Zypher, more than half the passengers de-trained in Denver.
Another post on this topic raised the question whether the LSL is the best use of Amtrak's or the nation's limited resources. By implication the question applies to all the long distance trains. There are much better potential uses for the resources.
The long distance trains bring in approximately 24 per cent of Amtrak's revenues, but they account for nearly 76 per cent of Amtrak's operating loss before depreciation. Amtrak does not allocate depreciation by route, claiming that it does not have the tools to do so. However, it is developing a depreciation allocation method. It appears that the bulk of Amtrak's depreciation is embedded in the NEC. Accordingly, if depreciation were allocated by route, the long distance trains' per cent of Amtrak's operating loss would decline.
Amtrak claims it would save only $300 million per year if it discontinued the long distance trains. I question this figure. It is much lower than the annual long distance train operating loss, although a portion of the loss would not go away because of shared support costs. In any case, assuming that Amtrak could earn the current U.S. Treasury Note rate of return on the savings, it would add up to $3.5 billion in 10 years and $8.5 billion in 20 years. That's equal to this year's federal contribution for so-called high speed rail.
passenger - miles / seat - miles
So, for the LSL whose route is 960 miles, if you fill one seat from NY to Syracuse (270 miles) and then again from Toledo to Chicago, another 220 miles, you'd have 490/960 = 51% for that seat.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Don: Do you know how Amtrak calculates load factor? Does occupying a seat from Chicago to South Bend and then again from Cleveland to Elyria count as a full seat if it is empty the rest of the run? Or double?
The LSL typically has 3 Viewliners and 4 coaches. That's space for about 400 people. Amtrak's overall load factor is about 50%. This is just some anecdotal evidence that supports that. I suspect this train's load factor improves greatly east of Buffalo, though.
Maybe, they had to turn some passengers away because there was no room for their baggage.
I understand, although it seems unlikely many were getting off in the middle of the night at the previous stops in South Bend, Sandusky, Toledo, etc. And I also understand that the train is essentially an archaic local, taking over 20 hours CHI - NYP. And coach seats are sold out for several days. My question is if this is a wise use of limited funds and resources?
That only means 128 people were on the train at the time. It could be 50 people got off at the last stop and 50 more were waiting at the next stop. Not everyone goes all the way thru from NYC to Chicago.
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