HSR under new scrutiny

[diningcar]

aegrotatio

diningcar

Planners also revised the estimated 2030 ridership from 55 million per year to 41 million. As a comparison the Acela currently carries 3 million per year.

 

Hold the phone.

Acela's trip is 451 miles.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

Not comparing, just offering information. But 520 miles from SF to LA is where the most of the passenger business is expected to be generated so you have offered a comparison I had not concieved.

[aegrotatio]

diningcar

Planners also revised the estimated 2030 ridership from 55 million per year to 41 million. As a comparison the Acela currently carries 3 million per year.

 

Hold the phone.

Acela's trip is 451 miles.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[HarveyK400]

Not withstanding the possible impact on the industry, it seems a little strange that RT&S would pick up on a political piece rather than focus on technical aspects and leave the other to Railway Age.

A forumist involved in the process has assured us that the rules for evaluation were adhered to.  Political hanky-panky was refreshingly absent.  It was not the case that plans were developed after the grant; but that some states had done most of the work, including the political groundwork, prior to the announcement of the program and were ready to proceed for the projects that were funded.  In a sense, the complaint was sour grapes.

I'm glad Illinois got something; but I'm surprised CHI-STL came out so high, given previous estimates.  This obviously affected the resources available for other State improvements that didn't make it.

[diningcar]

Rational analysis implies that we leave personal political opinions out. I shall offer some recent analysis of the California HSR scene which has far as I can tell has no political bias.

The CA voters approved a $9.95 billion bond issue which with interest will cost the state about $19.4 billion. This was for the approximately 800 mile system connecting Sacremento, San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego with HSR all of which was said at that time to cost $45 Billion. 

The state received $2.25 billion from the recent Federal stimulus appropriation.

Last year the planners revised the estimated cost of the first 520 mile segment from $33.6 to $42,6 billion.

Planners also revised the estimated 2030 ridership from 55 million per year to 41 million. As a comparison the Acela currently carries 3 million per year.

They also raised the projected cost of a ride from LA to SF from $55 to $105.

As we should all be aware given the history of goverment projects they always exceed estimates, sometimes by a factor of 2, 3 or 4 times. Should the CA voters be given another opportunity to vote on the bonds, perhaps. But they, and we, should see the handwriting and be prepared.

 

 

[blownout cylinder]

blue streak 1

He also seemed to think Florida did not get enough money (now is that any surprize?). 

And the funny thing is----what if he's right? If it got more money it might actually be a little ahead of the curve here.

[DMUinCT]

It's not one political party or another.

President Ronald Regan was a rail fan and member of the national Train Collectors Association.  Some of his items are displayed at our National Toy Train Musem in Strasberg PA.  

[blue streak 1]

Paul Milenkovic

It is indeed unsurprising that a Republican is objecting to the 8 billion for passenger rail expansion.  There are some exceptions, but Republicans are not that keen on trains and especially passenger trains.  This is something I have experienced first hand going back 40 years

Rep John Mica of Florida IMHO takes a different view of HSR. This mirrors the differences that are spoken on this News Wire in different threads. His view is all HSR effort be placed on one - three projects and not do any work to incrementally improve several routes. If you read some of his other comments he was unhappy that the NEC did not get more money to speed those two segments up. He also seemed to think Florida did not get enough money (now is that any surprize?). 

Hopefully he will work for a next grant. He was right that the FRA was slow on the awards but did he work for more people to analyze the requests?

[Paul Milenkovic]

Phoebe Vet

What a surprise; a Republican is trying to disrupt yet another piece of legislation or it's implementation.

I know that is a political statement, but it is what it is.

I will not pursue it any further.

Good, that means I can get the last word on this.

It is indeed unsurprising that a Republican is objecting to the 8 billion for passenger rail expansion.  There are some exceptions, but Republicans are not that keen on trains and especially passenger trains.  This is something I have experienced first hand going back 40 years.

The other thing is that some Democrats support passenger trains and HSR, but it is by far the minority of Democrats (the Amtrak frequent-rider Vice President?) -- for most it is not that big of a priority.  I also have personal experience with that scheduling media events in support of passenger rail.

To get passenger rail off "dead center" as it has been since the inception of Amtrak nearly 40 years ago, the passenger train advocacy community needs to build a broader coalition than simply the minority of Democrats aligned with our view of things.

I guess it shouldn't bother me that people in the advocacy community choose partisan sides, that is, identify opposition to trains broadly with one of the two political parties, rather than address the points raised by the individual politician in question.  But it does bother me.  Why?  It means we will continue to be out in the wilderness and not get anywhere.

We could learn something from the example of Anthony Haswell from back in the days when he founded NARP.  His newletter always featured a "Friend of Passenger Trains."  Most of the lauded politicians, I believe were Democrats -- Claiborne Pell, whom we can credit with the Northeast Corridor Demonstration Project, which gave us the Metroliner and was the nucleus of Amtrak, was a Democrat.  But Tony Haswell acknowledged Republicans too -- I remember a fellow named Prouty being given the spotlight, and in a different context, I remember some right-wing types talking about Mr. Prouty and even to them he was a "stick in the mud."  But I guess he supported trains at some point, and even a little bit of support got you NARP recognition.  And the NARP newsletter never attacked politicians for not supporting trains, and certainly never went as far as to label any political party.

So I am glad you guys along with all of my advocacy colleagues at the Mad City Model Railroad Show all got this off your chests and out of your systems, and from here we can work on building a broad coalition to get trains.

[blownout cylinder]

I can see all kinds of oppositions/conflicts/political kung fu fighting coming out of this thing

No way am I touching this anymore than what I said---

[schlimm]

 It's election year and we are definitely well into the political silly season.  Looks like another politico hopping on the anti-government express to NOwhere.

[Phoebe Vet]

What a surprise; a Republican is trying to disrupt yet another piece of legislation or it's implementation.

I know that is a political statement, but it is what it is.

I will not pursue it any further.

[desertdog]

See link from today's Railway Track and Structures:

http://www.rtands.com/newsflash/fra-high-speed-rail-effort-draws-fire.html

John Timm