Trains.com

Sunset/Eagle probable changes

9047 views
50 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM

wholeman
I am just curious, but what about the continuation of going east of New Orleans to Orlando.  Has there been any update on that?

Yes.  Amtrak studied it.  Here's the report:  http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am/Layout&cid=1241245669222

The best scenario provides only a 56% farebox recovery ratio, which is lousy, even for Amtrak.

Basically, Amtrak will provide service when funding is made available.  I think it's doubtful AL, MS and FL will come up with any money for this train, nor will Congress.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: Southeast Kansas
  • 1,329 posts
Posted by wholeman on Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:54 PM
I am just curious, but what about the continuation of going east of New Orleans to Orlando.  Has there been any update on that?

Will

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:37 AM

jeaton
That seems to be expected, but it would be hard to fault Amtrak for waiting until the change is certain before dropping bucks on new employees and training costs.  Last I knew, the didn't have a lot of spare cash laying around. 

Yes these are only advertized opening. Amtrak may be looking for a pool of personel for the various positions. If start up is finally approved then job interviews, then hiring, and training would commence. T&E personel training may be subject to prior qualifications since there are a lot of presently UP layoffs and might only require route training + normal Amtrak indoct.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Rockton, IL
  • 4,821 posts
Posted by jeaton on Saturday, March 20, 2010 8:26 PM

blue streak 1

Additional information: Amtrak has now advertised openings for 2 engineers each for San Antonia and El Paso. there is also openings for 4 more in LAX however that cannot be fully considered because of all the other routes out of LAX. Part of this information needs information as to how the present sunset engineers cover the route. Anyone knows how this route is covered?

Note: No openings SAS - NOL have been posted. Maybe this means the Eagle will go daily CHI - LAX and SAS - NOL will stay tri - weekly?

Also there were openings posted for several stations west of SAS for ticket agents however I have no details of which stations except El Paso.. 

As I recall, the NOLA-San Antonio will be a daily train.  I'd say that drawing conclusions from the job listings would be a little iffy.  I think that just as soon as the changes are a done deal and a start-up date is set, Amtrak will hit the media with the news.  The announcement could well be 90-120 days in advance of start-up, as much as anything for the purpose of having time to get the T&E crews qualified.  I got the understanding that the only remaining detail is getting the UP to sign off on the plan.  That seems to be expected, but it would be hard to fault Amtrak for waiting until the change is certain before dropping bucks on new employees and training costs.  Last I knew, the didn't have a lot of spare cash laying around. 

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:04 PM
blue streak 1

HarveyK400

oltmannd
HarveyK400
The type of equipment was not specified for the latter; but the prospect of Horizons seems reasonable. 
I'd guess Amfleet as NOL has never seen any Horizon Equipment. Lots of training and parts issues if you try running a third kind of equipment in there. I think Chicago is the maintenance hub for the Horizon equipment. I can't imagine Amtrak changing that.

 

Good point.

I'm confused. Wasn't the available "Katrina" evacuation fleet (not used) both Amfleet and Superliner? The the past one was Horizon and SL?

Is there not a desire on Amtral's part to get the Horizons out of brutal winter conditions because they don't like it? We have many posts saying Michigan trains and other substituted with SL of Amfleet?

The "evacuation fleet" was just the Crescent, Sunset and City of NOL equipment that was laying around, I think. I think a set of Superliners did actually make a few shuttle trips to Baton Rouge, but that was after the storm. Was there also a train to Houston?

Much after the storm, Amtrak created a small pool of Amfleet cars from cars stored unservicable, that were to be used for disasters.

Did the Horizon cars do badly this winter? I'd bet the issues were due to poor maintenance and perhaps a few design flaws that were fixable. Are there any Horizon cars in service that don't see Chicago? I can't think of any.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:52 PM

Additional information: Amtrak has now advertised openings for 2 engineers each for San Antonia and El Paso. there is also openings for 4 more in LAX however that cannot be fully considered because of all the other routes out of LAX. Part of this information needs information as to how the present sunset engineers cover the route. Anyone knows how this route is covered?

Note: No openings SAS - NOL have been posted. Maybe this means the Eagle will go daily CHI - LAX and SAS - NOL will stay tri - weekly?

Also there were openings posted for several stations west of SAS for ticket agents however I have no details of which stations except El Paso.. 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, March 12, 2010 4:06 PM

HarveyK400

oltmannd
HarveyK400
The type of equipment was not specified for the latter; but the prospect of Horizons seems reasonable. 
I'd guess Amfleet as NOL has never seen any Horizon Equipment. Lots of training and parts issues if you try running a third kind of equipment in there. I think Chicago is the maintenance hub for the Horizon equipment. I can't imagine Amtrak changing that.

 

Good point.

I'm confused. Wasn't the available "Katrina" evacuation fleet (not used) both Amfleet and Superliner? The the past one was Horizon and SL?

Is there not a desire on Amtral's part to get the Horizons out of brutal winter conditions because they don't like it? We have many posts saying Michigan trains and other substituted with SL of Amfleet?

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • 1,123 posts
Posted by HarveyK400 on Friday, March 12, 2010 3:00 PM

oltmannd
HarveyK400
The type of equipment was not specified for the latter; but the prospect of Horizons seems reasonable. 
I'd guess Amfleet as NOL has never seen any Horizon Equipment. Lots of training and parts issues if you try running a third kind of equipment in there. I think Chicago is the maintenance hub for the Horizon equipment. I can't imagine Amtrak changing that.

 

Good point.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • 798 posts
Posted by BNSFwatcher on Friday, March 12, 2010 2:12 PM

Back in the "Old Days", when I was in the army, and pre-NOL-ORL service, I took the "Crescent" NYP-NOL.  A sleeper laid-over in NOL (3 days-a-week service south of ATL, back then [1983?]) before going west on #1 in the morning.  As I was only ticketed to NOL, the sleeping car attendant graciously allowed me to spend the night on the car before I took "The Hound" to Alexandria, LA.  A pleasant experience, even the "Hound"!  "Viewliner" sleepers, on the "Crescent" would preclude that inter-line service, unless a transition sleeper was added/properly positioned at SAS.  Too bad.

Hays

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Friday, March 12, 2010 1:32 PM
HarveyK400
The type of equipment was not specified for the latter; but the prospect of Horizons seems reasonable. 
I'd guess Amfleet as NOL has never seen any Horizon Equipment. Lots of training and parts issues if you try running a third kind of equipment in there. I think Chicago is the maintenance hub for the Horizon equipment. I can't imagine Amtrak changing that.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • 1,123 posts
Posted by HarveyK400 on Friday, March 12, 2010 1:04 PM

What I heard at the Amtrak town hall meeting in Chicago, and maybe discussed in another thread, was that schedule negotiations with the railroad were being held.  Nothing was said about political push-back; but that means nothing and doesn't automatically discredit Sam1's waiter's comment.

The change is hoped for by September, as I recall.

As has been stated by others the Eagle would go daily CHI-LAX; and a NOL-SAS day train would connect.  The type of equipment was not specified for the latter; but the prospect of Horizons seems reasonable. 

The Horizons used for many Midwest routes were criticized; and hopes were that these would be replaced sooner than later.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Austin, TX
  • 462 posts
Posted by 4merroad4man on Friday, March 12, 2010 12:14 PM

blue streak 1
Essentially the Amtrak release says the Eagle is going to be daily CHI - LAX and there will be a  connecting day train New Orleans  -  San Antonia. The approximately 18 hr trip NOL - SAS will be at least some night running. The release said the timing was going to be speeded up about 6 hrs but I assume that is the Eagle total time.

 

In the words of Buford T. Justice, "Hold up on that car wash gentlemen."

The press release says that negotiations with the host carrier (UP) are ongoing and that an announcement will be made later.  You may take this to mean that an announcement, good or bad, will be made later.  The Union Pacific has enjoyed the liberties of a tri weekly schedule west of San Antonio for quite sometime and is not likely to relinquish that luxury in favor of (in their opinion, I am sure) daily passenger train interference, without a fight and a lot of demands.

So, until all this is hammered out, I would insert the word may for the word will  in order to redo the phrase to read "The Eagle may be a daily train CHI-LAX.

 

Stay tuned.

Serving Los Gatos and The Santa Cruz Mountains with the Legendary Colors of the Espee. "Your train, your train....It's MY train!" Papa Boule to Labische in "The Train"
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 8, 2010 10:52 PM

Well the following Amtrak web page. 

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267278292

Go to the Amtrak long distance trains are going strong.

Essentially the Amtrak release says the Eagle is going to be daily CHI - LAX and there will be a  connecting day train New Orleans  -  San Antonia. The approximately 18 hr trip NOL - SAS will be at least some night running. The release said the timing was going to be speeded up about 6 hrs but I assume that is the Eagle total time. That makes any speculation on times to be determined.  Well I guess my informant was correct however since the service will not start until fall (per release) we will get plenty of time to guess. I suppose I will have to increase the probability of this happening to about 70%. Hopefully the rolling stock will be ready and there will be no equipment damaged.

The 2 sleepers at CHI US this past weekend may help although I thought that they will be assigned to the Empire Builder. Maybe off the builder this fall?

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, March 6, 2010 9:53 AM

Sam1
Undoubtedly, it is possible that a segment of the train is sold out, but not one of the segments on March 11th.  It is also possible that the train was sold out when you asked the system for a reservation, but is now available due to cancellations.  Or it could have been a computer glitch. 

Sam: I made a typo and meant departure from NOL Mar 12 - LAX. When checking again it was 2 coach seats available and 2 Roomettes available only. For grins split it up to SAS and it was 2 on sunset but Eagle was completely sold out SAS - Lax. Did not check back toward DFW or CHI.

Certainly appears that even during a shoulder season that this route is getting more business. Unfortunately will not see Mar ridership until mid May.

Thanks for the computer glitch heads up or maybe some coach passengers moved to 421 seats?. I certainly like how the reservation system seems to be improved vs a year ago.

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 6, 2010 3:30 AM

blue streak 1

Believe it or not:: The mar 11 Sunset NOL - LAX is sold out on coach and only has SL sleeper Roometttes available. This may be another indication of changes coming.

On March 11th #1 and #2 will be running essentially between San Antonio and Tucson.  I asked for reservations from SA to El Paso and from Tucson to Alpine.  The reservation system indicated that coach seats are available for $79 on #1 and $75 on #2 whilst a roomette would add $148 between SA and El Paso and $146 from Tucson to Alpine.  There are, however, only 3 or 4 lower level coach seats available on # 1 and #421.

Undoubtedly, it is possible that a segment of the train is sold out, but not one of the segments on March 11th.  It is also possible that the train was sold out when you asked the system for a reservation, but is now available due to cancellations.  Or it could have been a computer glitch. 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, March 5, 2010 11:06 PM

Believe it or not:: The mar 11 Sunset NOL - LAX is sold out on coach and only has SL sleeper Roometttes available. This may be another indication of changes coming.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Friday, March 5, 2010 12:27 PM
Looks like more than a rumor.....

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Austin, TX
  • 462 posts
Posted by 4merroad4man on Friday, March 5, 2010 12:18 PM

I would suggest that people look at the Amtrak jobs site.......

Serving Los Gatos and The Santa Cruz Mountains with the Legendary Colors of the Espee. "Your train, your train....It's MY train!" Papa Boule to Labische in "The Train"
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, March 4, 2010 6:11 PM

Sam1

Since I was the last person in the dinning car, presumably, the head wait person sat down at my table as I asked her a few questions about the rumors that I had heard regarding changes to the Sunset and Eagle schedules.  This is what she told me is the prevalent rumor amongst the on-board Amtrak personnel who work #s 1 and 2.  The Sunset Limited will be discontinued.  The Texas Eagle will be extended from San Antonio to LAX on a daily basis. 

Sam: This is exactly what the PRIIA report on the Sunset extension had as one proposal. As I can best tell the equipment presently used on the Sunset will allow the Eagle to become daily with no more SL equipment needed and may actually reduce the amount needed. That is 3 - 1/2 sets would be released. The 1/2 comes from the very long layover of NOL's Fr - Fr turns of equipment at NOL. Of course that precludes any Sunset equipment used on the City of New Orleans if the latter has any equipment failures. AMTRAK according to other posters now turns the Eagle to the CITY so that part may be moot and it will keep the warm weather maintenance at NOL where it needs to be.

A daily coach train with dinning car will be implemented between San Antonio and New Orleans.  It will be scheduled to offer connections with the Eagle.  

Amtrak was ready to pull the trigger on the plan, but they got some political push back, which they are supposedly working on. 

AH! Political push back ****  The loss of sleeper service and using single level cars can explain the political delay. I suspect that Horizon cars would be assigned to the San Antonia - NOL train. This would get them in a warmer climate since the Horizons do not like cold weather. Using the present schedule I figure 4 train sets SAS - NOL (unless the SAS eastward departure was at 6:00 AM or later and/or an earlier NOL departure --  then 3 train sets -- probably what will happen); I do not see how enough Dinning car are available unless Dinner Lite cars are used. Sleepers are completely unavailable unless any of the Heritage sleepers used on the PHL - CHI route are still available however I believe they were scrapped? In the future when more sleepers are built there could be through NYP - SAS sleeper service with overnight at NOL.

The Horizons could all be based at NOL. They are part of the Hurricane backup evacuation fleet.   Part of the ARRA upgrade at NOL is adding a lot of 480V Ground power which could go along with this possibility. //That would keep heavy (not overhaul) maintenance at one location (NOL)Huation _pmtcarsy 

Whether she knows anything more than anyone else, I don't know.  But it sounds good, especially to someone who lives in the Austin area.  Having to layover in San Antonio for more than 7 hours is a bummer.

What is the present station like now for connections from NOL?

Take this rumor for what it is worth!

One indicator will be when additional ticket agents are hired at Maricopa, Tucson, El Paso, and maybe San Antonia. Note: I received 2 messages today one which will put my probability of something happening to about 45%.  But Political push back is a great big unknown.

Everyone we know how detailed SAM is so I put good credence of her passing this along accurately.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 10:37 PM

blue streak 1

A source has indicated that AMTRAK has started a process to do some changes to the Sunset Limited. After going over the activities she and I only give it a 25 - 35% chance. The changes appear to be from San Antonia - LAX with more days service and/or additional cars and if that is so would probably be an Eagle only change. AMTRAK has not made any announcement and maybe some one along that route may have heard something?

In January I rode the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Diego and back.  I had one of the last sittings for the evening meal in the dinning car on #1.  The head wait person was outstanding; in fact, I was so impressed with her service that I wrote a letter to President Boardman commending her for her attitude, service, and pleasantness.

Since I was the last person in the dinning car, presumably, the head wait person sat down at my table as I asked her a few questions about the rumors that I had heard regarding changes to the Sunset and Eagle schedules.  This is what she told me is the prevalent rumor amongst the on-board Amtrak personnel who work #s 1 and 2.  The Sunset Limited will be discontinued.  The Texas Eagle will be extended from San Antonio to LAX on a daily basis.  A daily coach train with dinning car will be implemented between San Antonio and New Orleans.  It will be scheduled to offer connections with the Eagle.  

Amtrak was ready to pull the trigger on the plan, but they got some political push back, which they are supposedly working on.  Whether she knows anything more than anyone else, I don't know.  But it sounds good, especially to someone who lives in the Austin area.  Having to layover in San Antonio for more than 7 hours is a bummer.

Take this rumor for what it is worth!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 10:18 PM

What I have seen is the possibility of running a train between San Antonio and New Orleans, which connects with the Texas Eagle in San Antonio. I do not recall any further detail on this plan.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Sunset/Eagle probable changes
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 6:37 PM

A source has indicated that AMTRAK has started a process to do some changes to the Sunset Limited. After going over the activities she and I only give it a 25 - 35% chance. The changes appear to be from San Antonia - LAX with more days service and/or additional cars and if that is so would probably be an Eagle only change. AMTRAK has not made any announcement and maybe some one along that route may have heard something?

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy