Too much of the automatic stuff didn't work...doors were a major problem, for instance. Other things were not standard railroad fare and employees had a hard time understanding. Also, like the Metroliner, it was more like a plane's fusalage rather than a real or standard railroad coach. It was not a better, newer, improved RDC but rather a totally new concept.
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henry6And the SPV was so charged with aeronautical technololgy and gimmicks that didn't work on the ground
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Yes....that's right, out in Indiana someplace. The LIRR did the same thing with one of theirs!
PhelpsI'm reasonably sure the official speed limit was probably 79 mph, but the track was good and the engineers routinely just put the throttle all the way up and ran up against the engine governor, which was set for 85 mph.
How 'bout the New York Central "Beeliner" #M-497? They put two jet engines on the roof and did 180+ mph, methinks! I'll have to look it up! Wish I'd been on board!
Bill Hays
In June, 1961, with Lehigh Valley passenger service now only a memory, I had found the Jersey Central service through Bethlehem, PA (Jersey City to Allentown, with "Queen of the Valley" still going to Harrisburg) a workable substitute for getting home to Long Island via Manhattan. Much less convenient (ferry and subway up to Penn Station for the LIRR versus right there on the LV), but workable for a die-hard railfan.
The Jersey Central had had an early-morning RDC train into Jersey City from somewhere east of Phillipsburg for a while, and at the urging of politicians in the Lehigh Valley, they agreed to extend the run to Allentown. So, it was a nice early morning ride from Bethlehem, and I used it to get home at the end of the school year in June of 1961.
The highlight of that run was the fact that it ran nonstop from Sommerville to Elizabethport, a timetable distance of 21 miles. I'm reasonably sure the official speed limit was probably 79 mph, but the track was good and the engineers routinely just put the throttle all the way up and ran up against the engine governor, which was set for 85 mph. The timetable showed an allowed time of 19 minutes, pretty good all by itself. Naturally, I clocked the run; start to stop, 17 1/2 minutes, average speed 72 mph for 21 miles. Impressive!
Dave Phelps
One of my favourite RR memories of all time was watching CN RDC's on their Calgary-Edmonton run leave Irricana northbound. It was usually a two unit set.
The engineer would snap the throttle open and there would be two clouds of jet black smoke that would form mushroom clouds like someone had detonated nuclear weapons, and in an incredibly short distance in only a few seconds that smoke would be laying flat back no more that six feet above the car roofs.
Those things had unbelievable acceleration, and the sounds of those GM diesels spooling up was the most beautiful thing you ever heard.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Paul MilenkovicSomeone organized a railfan excursion, collected fares from about 200 railfan passengers, got the B&O to supply a 3-unit trainset of Budd RDC's, and set a DC-Chicago speed record of 12 Hr 30 min. Another interesting thing is that the article gives fuel consumption numbers, 2.9 MPG (Diesel fuel) per RDC unit on the speed record run, 3.5 MPG per RDC unit on the return trip that took an hour longer.
Someone organized a railfan excursion, collected fares from about 200 railfan passengers, got the B&O to supply a 3-unit trainset of Budd RDC's, and set a DC-Chicago speed record of 12 Hr 30 min.
Another interesting thing is that the article gives fuel consumption numbers, 2.9 MPG (Diesel fuel) per RDC unit on the speed record run, 3.5 MPG per RDC unit on the return trip that took an hour longer.
Johnny
I believe you are right about the Victoria - Courtenay RDC service I think it was a catering truck at Nanaimo.
If you want to ride the BCR I believe there will be train service during the Winter Games over part of the route and the BC train tour operator (name escapes me) is planning or maybe has already intoduced service from Vancouver to Prince George and on to Edmonton.
Another RDC trip I was fortunate to ride was the CPR Dominion Atlantic from Digby NS to Halifax consisted of a pair of RDCs a -2 and -1 from the ferry from St. John where I had traveled aboard the Atlantic Limited from Montreal consisting of one of CPs E8As a baggage car, coach, Skyline Dome, and Manor Sleeper. Traveling in the sleeper I did not even get awakened by customs as we crossed Maine. It was not a bad way to travel as CP still owned the ferry that crossed between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia so all connections were made. I returned from Halifax that trip on the CN Ocean. CN at that time was famous for there Prime Rib Dinner and a very hardy helping was served up.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan The RDC's on the CN between Toronto and Kingston had snack service, as did the ones on Vancouver Island. On the Great Northern all meals were box lunches along the route. Al - in - Stockton
The RDC's on the CN between Toronto and Kingston had snack service, as did the ones on Vancouver Island. On the Great Northern all meals were box lunches along the route.
As to the messenger on the Zephyrette, apparently there was quite a bit of express business in the early fifties. The author of the article spoke of the possibility that the messenger received a commission from the suppliers of food to the passengers for causing them to drool.
I wish we had been able to ride the BCR trains--but such a trip did not work out.
My encounters with RDC's were few: the last run of the Springfield-Greenfield B&M run in Feb. 1968 and a couple of (then) Brewster North to Dover Plaines (end of service) on MNRR in the '80's. While supposedly commuter, the were a cut above the rattan liners the often found in commuter service. As for the B&O Chicago-DC trip, remember B&O offered Pittsburgh to Baltimore/Washington service with RDC's and therefore their cars were probably the long distance versions with better and fewer seats allowing for more comfort but not as much as say a long distance coach on the Capitol.
It is a real shame that the railroad industry in the long run turned its back on Budd's magnificant machine. Railroads really wanted out of the passenger business at the time so even the offerings of the RDC were rejected: it was easier to abandon lightly used lines than run a single car. Full crew laws in some states made the cost of running the cars more prohibitive than in other states; and I don't believe the unions were in any frame of mind to negotiate at the time either.
I, and others, have often wondered what if the DL&W had purchased RDC's for instance. Would the Sussex and Washington services been enhanced enough to attract riders and overcome the loss of milk and mail? Could Binghamton to Utica and Binghamton to Syracuse been lines able to hold on a bit longer, even be attactive to riders despite the interstate highway system? Or how about Scranton to Sunbury? Could that have been a good run with an RDC instead of an engine, two cars with an engine crew and 3 trainmen? The Erie had a handful of branchlines in NJ that probably also have benefited from RDC's had management elected.
And don't get RDC's confused with earlier gas motor cars nor with the later SPV's. The RDC was the prime extension of what was offered by everyone from EMC, EMD, St. Louis Car, Brill, to McKeen, et.al, And the SPV was so charged with aeronautical technololgy and gimmicks that didn't work on the ground that it was unfortunately not only a failure in itself but also doomed further developent and use of a single unit, self propelled vehicle for American railroads. It is one reason why the Colorado DMU has had so much resistance.
When I rode the car the express messenger had virtually nothing to do. Since the trip consumed such a long period of time they changed messengers along the route as well and do not recall any cooking going on. I think they had about five or six packages for delivery over the entire route and the rest was company mail that was kept in a lock box they opened at the stations.
The BCR RDC's served airline style meals and they were quite good. I may be wrong but I don't think anything but the salads were prepared on board and served at your seat.
My only experience with an RDC was riding the Wall Street/Crusader between Reading Terminal, Philadelphia and Newark, in 1980. It was basically a commuter run and the refreshment section in one of the units was not operational.
In 2000, on a trip to San Jose, I encountered a number of de-motorized RDC units in CalTrans markings in a siding near the San Jose station. I think at the time they were not being used in regular service.
passengerfanI guess you might say that I liked RDCs and only regret that they are no longer around on routes or in numbers as they once were.
I agree with Al. My only experiences riding RDC's have been B&O between Baltimore and Washington, and VIA Montreal-Ottawa and back and on Vancouver Island.
My first trip was in a single car from Baltimore, in the spring of 1968, and our speed was limited because only one car was being operated. My second trip was to Baltimore, on the connection from the Capitol Limitedi in June the same year. With two cars in the train, we had more braking power, and thus were allowed to run faster.
In 1984, I made a round trip from Montreal to Ottawa and back, and there was food service in one of the cars.
In 2003, we rode Victoria-Courtenay-Victoria, and enjoyed the trip greatly. I took several pictures along the way, and when I showed them to a friend, he was surprised that we took the trip simply because it was there; he could not comprehend going without some other purpose.
As Al said, being able to ride in the vestibule and see the speedometer is a plus for RDC travel. I regret that I was unable to ride any other routes, especially the special trip over the B&O (college students seldom had funds and time for such). The article, A Streetcar Named Zephyrette, in Trains, more that fifty-five years ago, piqued my interest in the cars. Of course, the many other articles that were printed, especially in the early years of RDC's, provided much information and inducement to ride them, if possible.
Al, was your appetite whetted by the aromas of the express messenger's cooking when you rode the Zephyrette? Or, was there still such (who could not leave the car while working)?
Paul,
I gave up my one chance to ride the Vista Dome California Zephyr from Oakland to Chicago just to ride from Oakland to Salt Lake City on one of WPs RDC's and would do it again in a heartbeat if it still ran. The RDC 2 had the baggage section followed by a first class seating section actually special coach seats then the remainder of the car had the flip over type RDC seating. The crew at boarding looked at me like I was nuts as I was the first through passenger to Salt Lake City they had ever seen ride the RDC that they could remember. I soon found out that the (first Class) seating was for paying passengers and the other seating was for pass riding passengers. The train stopped for every meal except one that was a box lunch they dropped off the orders for at one station and the lunches were ready at the next station. As soon as the crews realized I was not someone from headquarters sent to spy on them I pretty much could do just about what i wanted. I rode up front with the engineers for long stretches and only returned to my seat when appoaching division points etc.
My first trip on the PG&E RDC's was also a great adventure and needless to say I returned when it was BCR and traveled the entire distance from North Vancouver to Prince George. This was probably the most scenic RDC trip in North America. I also rode the RDCs on Vancouver Island.
I even rode the GN's lone RDC in Montana and that consumed almost 24 hours as well round trip.
I rode numerous RDC trips on the CN out of Toronto to Niagara Falls and on another occasion to Kingston.
I guess you might say that I liked RDCs and only regret that they are no longer around on routes or in numbers as they once were.
One of the great delights of the Wisconsin State Historical Society are the back issues of Trains.
For anyone with access to the back issues, I recommend "The Great RDC Race" by E. J Long, Trains, October 1955, pp 16-24.
The other interesting thing is on "thinking outside the box" on railroad equipment and on service and amenities. They had over 200 people packed into what is essentially a 3-unit commuter/corridor train set -- no lounge car, no sleepers, no diner, no crew dorm -- for a long-distance day trip. Dinner was served, according to a footnote, on a 1-hour stop (was it on the slower non-record return trip?). What the train lacked in amenities that many around here consider an LD-train entitlement, it made up for it in creative use of the baggage section in one RDC as an impromptu food service section. Each of the three RDC's had functioning cabs at each end with working speedometers, although the throttle and brake handles were only accessible to the train driver in the head unit. These cabs were immensely popular with the railfan riders monitoring how they were doing on speed and setting the record.
I suppose over 200 people packed into 3 commuter seating-density RDC's without lounge or dining car was a pleasant rail travel experience given the sense of excitement of setting a record and that one was travelling with like-minded people sharing a similar interest in trains. And the RDC cabs providing "mini-lounges" for train geeks to congregate is also kind of unusual. But there is nothing to say that one could not provide amenities such as video screens giving speed, charting progress along the line, and estimating times of arrival. Or provide on-board power outlets and perhaps even WiFi internet (see suggestions for Amtrak current issue of Trains) -- these thing involve some cost, but they don't take up space away from revenue seating.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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