I have ridden on a Superliner sleeper four times this year (roundtrip from Austin to LAX and twice from Emeryville to Denver). In addition, I have been on a coach twice between Taylor, Texas, and Fort Worth or Dallas. On three of the trips I noticed a profound odor coming from the toilets. It could be smelled throughout the lower level of the cars. Twice it was on the sleepers and once on a coach.
Periodically, as I did this morning, I drive over to Taylor, Texas to watch the Texas Eagle. This morning, as well as on another occasion, I noticed a pungent odor that was not present before the train arrived or after it departed. It appeared to be coming from the coaches.
Does anyone know whether the odors are coming from the toilets because they are old, probably worn, and not functioning properly, or it is because Amtrak is using a different chemical in its toilets that is giving off the odor?
Certainly sounds like something that would make riding Superliners awful.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Though I may not have been on the exact trains on the same days at the same times and at the same locations, but I have been aboard Superliners for many thousands of miles and have experienced no odors of any kind. Even when the Texas Eagle cars were part of my Sunset Limited consist from LA to San Antonio.
I can't imagine the source nor nature of the odors that you detected. One possibility that occurs to me is that the train in question had hit some fauna en route, such as a skunk, racoon, or other animal, and its carcass was still impaled in the undercarriage somewhere.
Toilet odors are very common on Superliners.
They can't dump to the track anymore (even chemically treated waste) so everything your fellow traveler puts in the toilet remains in the retention tank until the terminus station.
If one person puts something other then human waste and a small amount of paper down the drain when flushing, the system will almost certainly clog and essentially the entire train car toilets cannot be used.
When I think back to all of my countless Amtrak long distance trips, I can't recall a time when the toilet vacuum system in at least one car didn't shut down at some point along the trip. It bugs me so much that idiots disregard all instructions and seemingly throw whatever down the toilet. Hey thanks for breaking the toilets for everyone
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Sounds like poor design, based on what you observed. The thing is, this doesn't seem to be a problem on trains I've ridden in Germany,UK, Italy, and Austria,and US: Amtrak and commuter lines around Chicago and NYC. I've seldom noticed this problem on airplanes, except exceptionally long flights (9-13 hours) with many 250+) passengers. Or are you saying only people who ride Amtrak LD trains are inconsiderate idiots?
As I stated in my previous post on the 20th, I have NEVER had any problem with odors on any part of any Amtrak train, including the Superliners, in which I always have Bedroom accommodations. Must be I'm lucky!
However, I do recall one winter trip on the Southwest Chief in which the Sleeper Car in which I was accommodated had a power problem, which prevented passengers from flushing their toilets at will. When sufficient power was available, the car attendant would announce something like: "OK, you all can flush now!" Whatever. It was not a big deal (for me).
travelingengineer Must be I'm lucky!
Must be I'm lucky!
Could be.
My Amtrak long distance travels have all been in Superliner sleepers. I've ridden in every Superliner sleeper accommodation other the the accessible room. Most of my long distance train trips have been on the Southwest Chief, although I've been on the Empire Builder, Coast Starlight, California Zephyr, Sunset Limited, and Desert Wind.
I've noticed the toilet failure more so in Superliner II sleeping cars when compared to Superliner I sleepers.
The restrooms are an easy way to tell if your car is a Superliner II or I. If you have to lower the toilet seat to flush it is a Superliner II. If there is a button to flush it is a Superliner I. Of course there are exceptions where the odd Superliner II has a push button system. Never seen a lower seat flush in a Superliner I.
schlimm Sounds like poor design, based on what you observed. The thing is, this doesn't seem to be a problem on trains I've ridden in Germany,UK, Italy, and Austria,and US: Amtrak and commuter lines around Chicago and NYC. I've seldom noticed this problem on airplanes, except exceptionally long flights (9-13 hours) with many 250+) passengers. Or are you saying only people who ride Amtrak LD trains are inconsiderate idiots?
I doubt it, there are idiots all over
I agree that the vacuum retention tank design is a poor one. My cousin (works for Amtrak mechanical in Chicago) says the system in use on the newer California cars is more powerful and less prone to clogging. But a lot has to do with the distance traveled and the retention tank filling up as you go. I should add that most of the toilet issues I've encountered almost always occurred near the end of the journey (usually last day of travel).
I can remember back when Superliners chemically treated the waste and then dumped this liquid mix to the tracks. If any of you can remember back, that whine you would sometimes hear while on Superliner trains were these chemical toilet dump systems. I do not remember any problems with that system other then an unpleasant odor for a short time if you happened to be ridding on an open platform car on the rear of the train (lucky enough to do this a few times). But when the retention tank system came, this is when the issues of malfunctioning toilets started to happen.
I clearly remember on some of my earlier Superliner trips on the Southwest Chief walking with my dad to the front car (Hi-Level dorm) to use the restroom. They still dumped to the tracks (and had those do not flush while in station signs) and had much larger restrooms then the Superliners. I really liked the foot pedal sinks. Even the toilet flush was a foot pedal. The toilet was in a separate little room while the sinks were in a communal lounge type setting. I always thought this was better then the Superliners.
Strange that I can remember so much about toilets on a train
It has long been my belief that one or two crew persons on each Amtrak train responsible for keeping the rest rooms clean would do more for Amtrak that any amount of new equipment.
A male passenger with poor aim on rough track can do tremendous damage to Amtrak's image.
We tend to forget that during the "golden age" (whenever that actually was) Pullman porters kept the trains spotless.
I used to ride the Northeast Corridor from New York to Boston once or twice each year and remember the on-board service staff reminding people to clean the restrooms after themselves. I never used the toilets once the train passed Stamford, Ct.,
The ladies room on the Autotrain turned my wife off to Amtrak.
Kevin
certainly an unusual but very important topic. The long-haul (Vancouver - Toronto) VIA trains in Canada stink too. What i mean is the entire sleeping car stinks. The lavatories are low water use maybe? And passengers (who did not grow up on boats or rv-ing) sometimes do not prefill the bowl and it leaves residue. UGH. It is so disgusting to ride along with no fresh air and to be in the stench of human waste. Also I have been told - not sure if correct or not - the seals do not close off the holding tanks from the general overall sleeping car - i suppose they get jammed or wear out or something. It is so offensive. very stinky. I have tried filling the bowl with a few glasses of fresh water just to form a trap - but even that doesn't work. It is disgusting and for sure detracts from the huge money that one pays to be in "first class" or silve/blue or whatever they call it these days in the otherwise somewhat charming sleeping car service that the Cdn taxpayers subsidize.
Well at least it was not only me that experienced this odor.
100 years ago passenger coaches were not air conditioned. 100 years ago there were livestock trains. There were no toilets on livestock cars. What hit the floor flew out the slots.
During warm weather were passengers warned to close their windows before passing a livestock train?
I moved to Israel in 1996, and my last (to date?) Superliner sleeper trip was in summer 1995. I had never been aware of the problem. When did the switch from dumping to retention occur? (I also had a round-trip in Heritage sleepers NY - W. Palm Beach Jan '96.)
daveklepperI moved to Israel in 1996, and my last (to date?) Superliner sleeper trip was in summer 1995. I had never been aware of the problem. When did the switch from dumping to retention occur? (I also had a round-trip in Heritage sleepers NY - W. Palm Beach Jan '96.)
Definitely started post 2000, though I do not remember the exacy year. I remember the issue going back at least 4-5 years but do not have memory before that. Amtrak used to use a blue fluid with the flush and it would cover the cap long ago, no longer. I think that is part of the issue as the blue fluid had odor masking or suppression in it or it tended to keep the rubber gaskets from cracking or drying out. Not sure which.
The problem of the odor as it was explained to me by a long ago conductor, is the venting of the retention tank after it gets to a specific fill level, if it is not serviced properly. The monitor is usually located in the panel of lights along the stairway as you climb the stairs to the second level.
Just from my own reading the Superliner I and Superliner II both have slightly different septic systems, with different capacities, they are not the same. I guess one of the problems when you split orders is they can never get every subsystem to match. Intercoms in compartment work slightly differently between Superliner I and Superliner II cars in that a different channel number mutes the in compartment announcements based on which type of Superliner your riding in ( I noticed). Also the closets in the Economy bedroom do not exist on some of the Superliner cars.........not sure which type I or II.
What's an Economy Bedroom?
Also, very interesting that early Superliners had partial-retention tanks that would start dumping onto the tracks at a certain speed or by command. All of those were phased out by the 1980s or 1990s. Source: https://www.classicstreamliners.com/rpc-superliner.html
aegrotatioWhat's an Economy Bedroom?
It's also called a roomette and also it is defined in the link you provided.
Thank you for verifying my assumption that an "Economy Bedroom" is a roomette. I didn't see it in that link due to a lack of attention detail on my part, maybe, but it's not obvious.
Just one question, though: what bedrooms and/or roomettes had closet space? I was on a Superliner roomette and didn't have a closet, just a place to put my baggage.
The lettered bedrooms on a Superliner do have some closet space, but it is a bit small. Superliner roomettes seem closer to a Slumbercoach duplex in size and amenities.
An "economy bedroom" is a sleeping closet (I write from experience). I do not consider such to be a real roomette. The original Viewliner roomettes do have one advantage over real roomettes--if you have to get up in the night, you do not have to put the berth up.
Johnny
aegrotatioJust one question, though: what bedrooms and/or roomettes had closet space? I was on a Superliner roomette and didn't have a closet, just a place to put my baggage.
It depends on the Superliner version. Some roomettes just have a belt and coat hanger along the wall, others have a small enclosed closet with door the width of the closet is no more than 4-6 inches wide though and it is along one side of the compartment by the sliding door.
As for baggage in a roomette, there actually is plenty of room for baggage, you just can't pack a steamer trunk like you would on the Queen Mary. I carry on a duffle bag, laptop and sometimes a rucksack, they all fit under the first level bed and you can slide the laptop into the closet for additional security against theft. If your laptop case is normal sized. I am 6 foot 5 inch tall, no problems in a roomette, only one exception is I can even put on my shoes with sliding door closed. I usually bring a pair of moccosins (slippers) with me for the late night forays to the restroom or trip to the dinning car or lounge car as they meet the Amtrak shoes requirement for travel between cars and are easy to put on or take off without opening the sliding glass door to the compartment. Also I wear thorlo brand walking socks which provides enough germ protection in the compartment when the moccoasins are off.
If your traveling alone then you can lower the upper bunk place your baggage on there and then close it up again. Again, common sense when packing for the trip not to take a huge or hardsided suitcase with you. Amtrak has cautionary warnings about this on their reservation pages. Still some folks pack the steamer trunks and refuse to check them, as if they are going on a 10 day transatlantic voyage. Never ceases to amaze me the size of the suitcases in the luggage area on the lower level Sleeping Car.
DeggestyAn "economy bedroom" is a sleeping closet (I write from experience). I do not consider such to be a real roomette. The original Viewliner roomettes do have one advantage over real roomettes--if you have to get up in the night, you do not have to put the berth up.
It depends on your build and what shape your in I guess. I'm 6 foot 5 inches tall and there is enough room between the beds being down and the sliding glass partition to the hallway that I can stand-up before I slide the door open. Additionally, I have enough strength in my legs that my legs can raise my whole body to a vertical position without me having to grab anything. Granted I cannot put my tennis shoes on with the beds down very easily but thats another reason I pack slip-on / slip off moccasins.
Amtrak roomettes do have room to stand and undress/dress with the berths made ready for occupancy. I was referring to pre-Amtrak roomettes in which the berth takes up almost the entire width of the room--and all of those had toilet facilities in them. Superliner roomettes--if you have to get up in the night you have to dash for the restroom.
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