In the "Wisconsin Talgo" thread, "E-Z Pass" was mentioned as a form of ticket collecting. This old phart borrowed a vehicle from his nephew, drove over the Bear Mountain Bridge (free, WB) to the USMA ('West Point') to do some shopping. On the way back I stopped at the toll booth and the attendant vigorously waved me thru. I didn't know the rig had an "E-Z Pass" on the visor. Cool! Couldn't "E-Z Pass" technology be incorporated into rail tickets? You could have commutation, multi-ride, R/T, and O/W passes, self-cancelling as used/scanned. This would, truly, speed up the process.
As far as identification checks go, Amtrak does that at the ticket counter. Dunno about "Quik-Trak". That doesn't preclude my giving my ticket to a terrorist, but... Only at Tucson, AZ was my ID ever checked, at the fenced boarding platform, but no silly DHS/TSA operatives around. It was dark out, donch'a know? There was a delay to boarding the WB "Sunset Limited", but UP had already decided to let four WB freights overtake #1 at TUS, so it really didn't matter. Aktchu'lly worked out good. My sleeping car had been B/O'd in El Paso, so it gave me a chance to fall asleep in a 'cattle car'.
Hays
In the case of suburban service, an arrangement like I-Pass, E-Z Pass, etc is a solution in search of a problem. Most suburban services do not have limited access boarding areas like rapid transit and a fair number of stations are unmanned off peak or all day. Trainmen still have to walk through the train to collect fares and punch or inspect tickets so a high-tech scanner doesn't change anything.
Something like this in along the NEC would be very useful. No reason the various commuter rail and transit agencies and Amtrak couldn't do the something similar. For Amtrak, instead of loading it with a cash fare, it would be loaded with your reservation.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
CSSHEGEWISCH In the case of suburban service, an arrangement like I-Pass, E-Z Pass, etc is a solution in search of a problem. Most suburban services do not have limited access boarding areas like rapid transit and a fair number of stations are unmanned off peak or all day. Trainmen still have to walk through the train to collect fares and punch or inspect tickets so a high-tech scanner doesn't change anything.
Where this might make sense is in places where the same ticket can be used on commuter trains and on the local transit system (e.g., San Diego). I agree it doesn't make much sense if the commuter service uses its own tickets, which can't be used for other services.
However, if you look into the future, I think it's likely that you will see more widespread use of universal ticketing in metropolitan areas. The "touch passes" (called by various names) now being introduced on transit systems would make it relatively easy to do universal ticketing and divide the revenue among the various operators based on usage. The way this would work on a commuter train is that the passenger would touch his/her ticket to a scanner at the boarding station, which would validate the ticket for the trip (and deduct the fare, where fares are charged by the ride). The on board personnel would then use scanners simply to verify that the ticket had been properly validated. This is already being done on some light rail systems, and there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason it couldn't be done on commuter trains
It seems like a cash loaded transponder might work on systems such as the Chicago Transit Authority system and others with a single fare for any length of ride. However, when there is a fair structure that increases with the length of the trip, it is the job of the trainman to see that the rider is paying no less than the fair for his trip. You can't use a ticket good between Zone 1 and Zone 2 and ride on to Zone 7. The ticket or pass is displayed on a clip at the seat and after his initial check, the trainman can visually observe the ticket at any time to keep a passenger from riding beyond his paid for destination.
Present system. Step 1: Read the ticket.
High tech system. (Uses a ticket/transponder and a hand held scanner). Step 1: Scan the ticket. Step 2: Read the scanner display.
Sometimes we get a little too enamored with high tech.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
High Tech solution....just like is used some Toll Roads.
Scan Entrance....Scan Exit - calculate and bill the length of the trip.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD High Tech solution....just like is used some Toll Roads. Scan Entrance....Scan Exit - calculate and bill the length of the trip.
Such a method is not practicable in most suburban operations with ground-level platforms since you can't easily control entrance to and exit from the station platform. Also, monthly tickets are usually unlimited rides between the zones specified, how do you bill for rides beyond the zone boundaries?
I just tried RPI in Troy NY to Rowan Univ. in Glassboro NJ and it did a decent job. It used 3 CDTA buses to get to the Amtrak station in Rensselaer, Amtrak to Penn Sta. NJT to Trenton, the RiverLIne to Camden and a NJT bus to Glassboro. I'd have liked to chosen Amtrak to Phila (or SEPTA Trenton-Phila) with a SEPTA/PATCO link to Camden I think that would have been faster.
The only piece missing is the universal fare card.
Just for general information for the rest of the country.
If you live in the Northeast and drive a car --- you should have an "Fast Lane" or "E-Z Pass", they are all the same. Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, and other states may have different names but they use them for ALL TOLLS. It's a small Transponder, a 3" by 3.5" box, that sticks to your windshield behind the rear view mirror, some States sell them for a small fee, other States give them away (they can get rid of a lot of Toll Collectors).
You link the Transponder to a Credit Card or Checking Account, and can drive in any member State. When approaching a Toll Booth you slow down (do not stop), a transmitter at the Booth "tickles" your Transponder, reads your unique ID number, and bills your account. If you are on a Turnpike such as Mass, NJ, Penn, New York Thruway where you are charged by the miles driven, it reads you getting on and again where you get off and bills the proper toll.
It would be no problem for Heavy Rail, The Transponder in your pock could be read as you walk out on the platform and then again when you exit your destination station. The billing would be automatic to your account. If you walked in and again out of the same station, no distance recorded, no charge. Fare Collecting is one thing, Security is another, if you wanted to combine the two, a picture ID could be printed on the E-Z Pass just like a Driver's License or Security ID.
BY BY Tickets
Don U. TCA 73-5735
DMUinCT It would be no problem for Heavy Rail, The Transponder in your pock could be read as you walk out on the platform and then again when you exit your destination station. The billing would be automatic to your account. If you walked in and again out of the same station, no distance recorded, no charge. Fare Collecting is one thing, Security is another, if you wanted to combine the two, a picture ID could be printed on the E-Z Pass just like a Driver's License or Security ID.
DMU: and even if ticket prices are different on various days and various time of the day a reservation could be linked to the EZ pass with you still carrying a ticket that you picked up at a ticket dispenser. this would also give an instant count of passengers and free up any seats that were not claimed. Those seats could then go immediately back on sale.
DMU's idea might work on an operation with high-level platforms with controlled access to the station platform. It would also require secure ticket vending machines at unmanned stations for riders who don't have multi-ride tickets. I don't know how such a system would handle unlimited ride monthly tickets that are used as partial fare for the occasional ride beyond the zone boundaries of the monthly ticket. The system would not be practicable on an operation with ground-level platforms like Metra's diesel lines where it would be almost impossible to control access to the platform.
CSSHEGEWISCHDMU's idea might work on an operation with high-level platforms with controlled access to the station platform. It would also require secure ticket vending machines at unmanned stations for riders who don't have multi-ride tickets. I don't know how such a system would handle unlimited ride monthly tickets that are used as partial fare for the occasional ride beyond the zone boundaries of the monthly ticket. The system would not be practicable on an operation with ground-level platforms like Metra's diesel lines where it would be almost impossible to control access to the platform.
CSSHEGEWISCH BaltACD High Tech solution....just like is used some Toll Roads. Scan Entrance....Scan Exit - calculate and bill the length of the trip. Such a method is not practicable in most suburban operations with ground-level platforms since you can't easily control entrance to and exit from the station platform. Also, monthly tickets are usually unlimited rides between the zones specified, how do you bill for rides beyond the zone boundaries?
Implementation of a E-Z Pass fare structure would not necessarily mimic the existing fare structure in all aspects.
The bigger problem in the implementation of a E-Z Pass fare system would be in identifying and collecting from those that aren't E-Z Pass equipped without severe disruptions to those that are E-Z Pass equipped.
My bigger problem with E-Z Pass systems is interoperability. There are many E-Z Pass systems implemented across the country on various toll roads and toll bridges. While the all use similar technologies, having a Florida E-Z Pass transponder won't necessarily bill your tolls for crossing the Tappan Zee Bridge in New York.
I travel quite a bit, in my home area I don't have a need for E-Z Pass, however, I do travel a number of routes in different states and different toll facilities that use E-Z Pass based toll collection methods. I would not be averse to securing a E-Z Pass if it satisfied the toll requirements for all the toll facilities that I use from time to time. If the E-Z Pass would also cover the billing for commuter rail transportation, so much the better. The biggest problem to implementing interoperability is the politics of having the different toll facilities communicate the appropriate billing data across their corporate lines.
BaltACD bigger problem in the implementation of a E-Z Pass fare system would be in identifying and collecting from those that aren't E-Z Pass equipped without severe disruptions to those that are E-Z Pass equipped. My bigger problem with E-Z Pass systems is interoperability. There are many E-Z Pass systems implemented across the country on various toll roads and toll bridges. While the all use similar technologies, having a Florida E-Z Pass transponder won't necessarily bill your tolls for crossing the Tappan Zee Bridge in New York.
bigger problem in the implementation of a E-Z Pass fare system would be in identifying and collecting from those that aren't E-Z Pass equipped without severe disruptions to those that are E-Z Pass equipped.
One way to get those who do not have an E-Z pass would be requiring commuters to grab one and pay a deposit plus fare and then return pass at finish of trip for a refund. That would encourage most commuters to get a E-Z pass.
Yes interoperability is a big problem. My FL sun-pass (works on all FL toll roads no matter what the authority) will not work on the E-Z pass systems or on ATL's toll road. A big bone of contention for me and I enjoy pushing the various authorities buttons over it.
Note great for railffan viewing trips that are round trip with no getting off train.
How do they collect fares in England? Don't passengers pass thru a 'ticket reader' upon embarking and de-training? That, methinks, enables them to collect fare for mileage-based fees. I do think an "E-Z Pass", or whatever, system would work. Dunno about passengers having a "radar gun" pointed at them to read their billets, but they'd get over it. A few lawsuits about "unwarranted sterilization", but so what? Lawyers gotta live...well, maybe.
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