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NY MTA east river tunnels more polluted.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, January 22, 2023 4:19 PM

Flintlock76
 
Overmod
I am looking into whether metallic or oxide particles this size pose the same risk to DNA that carbon or hydrocarbon particles do.  The potential dangers of PM2.5 have only been recognized comparatively recently. 

Interesting study, but in a way I'm surprised this wasn't recognized earlier, and for a VERY interesting reason.

Several years ago I read an article about a traditional Christmas tree placed in one of the cross-Hudson tunnels, maybe the old PRR to Penn station tunnels, I'm not sure.  Anyway, there were artificial trees placed near the tunnel entrance on the Jersey side, they would be nice and green at the start of the Christmas season but BLACK by New Years.  The reason was steel dust kicked up by the wheels of passing commuter trains from the rails. 

So there is something to the steel dust theory.  How dangerous it is is anyone's guess, but improving tunnel ventilation surely wouldn't hurt.

Apply electro-magnets along the ties to attract the ferrous dust.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 14, 2023 5:34 PM

Overmod
I am looking into whether metallic or oxide particles this size pose the same risk to DNA that carbon or hydrocarbon particles do.  The potential dangers of PM2.5 have only been recognized comparatively recently.

Interesting study, but in a way I'm surprised this wasn't recognized earlier, and for a VERY interesting reason.

Several years ago I read an article about a traditional Christmas tree placed in one of the cross-Hudson tunnels, maybe the old PRR to Penn station tunnels, I'm not sure.  Anyway, there were artificial trees placed near the tunnel entrance on the Jersey side, they would be nice and green at the start of the Christmas season but BLACK by New Years.  The reason was steel dust kicked up by the wheels of passing commuter trains from the rails. 

So there is something to the steel dust theory.  How dangerous it is is anyone's guess, but improving tunnel ventilation surely wouldn't hurt.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 14, 2023 5:27 PM

54light15

Think of the nastiness in the air in the Queens-Midtown or Holland tunnels. I'd hate to be a tunnel cop! 

 

I don't know if this is still the case but back in the 1980's when we lived in the area the Port Authority of NY/NJ police had a hard and fast rule, "20 and out!"  A mandatory retirement rule brought about due to the constant exposure PA cops were exposed to from pollutants in the tunnels and on the bridges.  

Of course there's a difference between patrolling the tunnels and only being in them for a matter of seconds like commuters and train crews. 

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Posted by 54light15 on Saturday, January 14, 2023 3:20 PM

Think of the nastiness in the air in the Queens-Midtown or Holland tunnels. I'd hate to be a tunnel cop! 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 14, 2023 2:15 PM

Flintlock76
SD70Dude

Brake dust?  Fine metal shards from wheel on rail friction?  Mold from low-lying damp spots?  Rat viscera?

There's all sorts of nasty things in railroad tunnels, even on an all-electric system.

Nothing new about any of the above, anyone who knows anything about the commuter rail tunnels in NYC knows about those things.  So what's new and so dangerous?

It's "PM2.5", the same thing that is the principal danger in diesel exhaust, a novelty here being that the PM is largely iron particles.  The actual study is here to read:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1361920922004059?via%3Dihub

I am looking into whether metallic or oxide particles this size pose the same risk to DNA that carbon or hydrocarbon particles do.  The potential dangers of PM2.5 have only been recognized comparatively recently.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 14, 2023 9:29 AM

SD70Dude

Brake dust?  Fine metal shards from wheel on rail friction?  Mold from low-lying damp spots?  Rat viscera?

There's all sorts of nasty things in railroad tunnels, even on an all-electric system. 

 

Nothing new about any of the above, anyone who knows anything about the commuter rail tunnels in NYC knows about those things.  So what's new and so dangerous?  

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, January 13, 2023 9:31 PM

Brake dust?  Fine metal shards from wheel on rail friction?  Mold from low-lying damp spots?  Rat viscera?

There's all sorts of nasty things in railroad tunnels, even on an all-electric system. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, January 13, 2023 9:21 PM

Pollution from WHAT?  The article neglects to say. 

"Particles?"  What kind of particles, and where are they coming from? 

I just hate it when an article leaves you with more questions than it answers.  

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NY MTA east river tunnels more polluted.
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, January 13, 2023 6:23 PM

NYU study has found that stations close to their East river tunnels has air quality degration much more poluted than stations further  away from each route's tunnel. Recommends that tunnels  are going to need more frequent cleanings.

NYU researchers confirm ‘river-tunnel effect’ where air quality degrades in subway stations near river crossings | Mass Transit (masstransitmag.com)

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