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North Shore Line Charters West of Milwaukee

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North Shore Line Charters West of Milwaukee
Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, May 14, 2021 1:54 PM

Interesting I came upon a faded picture of a North Shore Line Train at Saint Johns Military Academy in Delafield, WI (far Western Suburb of Milwaukee).    Apparently a charter from Chicago for an event at the Military Academy.    I had no idea the North Shore Line cars were even compatible with Milwaukee Electric Railway clearences and voltage and such.    Learned something new today.    Now I wonder how often that happened and how the train would transfer from the North Shore Line to the Milwaukee Electric Railway.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, May 14, 2021 3:47 PM

Very interesting.  A lot of their students were from the Chicago suburbs.  Usually unruly boys from rich families in need of some discipline.

There must have been some interchange at the Milwaukee North Shore terminal? 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Friday, May 14, 2021 10:40 PM

CMStPnP

I had no idea the North Shore Line cars were even compatible with Milwaukee Electric Railway clearences and voltage and such.    Learned something new today.    Now I wonder how often that happened and how the train would transfer from the North Shore Line to the Milwaukee Electric Railway.

Most of the TMER&L lines were 600V overhead and the CNS&M also used 600V, so I would be surprised if they WEREN'T compatible. Clearances should be pretty much the same as well. OTOH Chicago SOUTH SHORE & South Bend equipment would NOT be compatible in either voltage or clearances.

The TMER&L and CNS&M did interchange a fair amount of trolley freight, so it wouldn't surprise me that passenger cars could be interchanged.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, May 15, 2021 1:51 PM

Erik_Mag
The TMER&L and CNS&M did interchange a fair amount of trolley freight, so it wouldn't surprise me that passenger cars could be interchanged.

The interchange points for TMER&L were in rather odd areas.   For example the Watertown line interchanged in Oconomowoc with the Milwaukee Road.   A lot of the Pabst Farms traffic on the Southern end of Oconomowoc was just a few miles from interchange with the Milwaukee Road.     They had issues with the newer 50 foot box cars with a specific bridge in which they had to place rubber mats on top of the car to prevent the catenary from arcing to the roof of the car.    They mentioned in the book I am reading that inbound with the car loaded with livestock feed the car cleared the bridge with 3-4 inches but after unloading it just cleared it on the return trip by half an inch.     Rather interesting story there.

Back to the point though, Oconomowoc and Watertown.....two large cities on that line and the interchange was at Oconomowoc vs Milwaukee, rather a short haul.    Granted not all traffic went Milwaukee road there were some stock cars they showed in pictures with C&NW markings.    The pictures I have show Pabst farms taking in a Covered Hopper (grains and oats for beer I would suspect), Livestock Car (C&NW markings), and later a box car (they said for shipping feed hay as a donation to farmers in the South having a drought).

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, May 15, 2021 7:20 PM

charlie hebdo

Very interesting.  A lot of their students were from the Chicago suburbs.  Usually unruly boys from rich families in need of some discipline.

There must have been some interchange at the Milwaukee North Shore terminal? 

 

It was my understanding that the Apollo 13 commander Jim Lovell's son was enrolled in St John's Military Academy, with his family residing in Wisconsin.  I don't know if it was the Tom Hank's movie or a non-fictional PBS documentary depicting the son and his classmates anxiously awaiting the fate of his dad in that crippled spacecraft.

The glib categorization of individuals is something my employer addresses.  Implicit Bias Training is something everyone who works there attends.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, May 16, 2021 1:48 AM

Paul Milenkovic
The glib categorization of individuals is something my employer addresses.  Implicit Bias Training is something everyone who works there attends.

I spent my mid to late teenage years living across the lake from Delafield and spent some time near the campus of St. Johns and a few times on the campus.    The cadets pretty much keep to themselves though and don't really mingle all that much.   The campus is pretty neat and the main building looks like a Castle.    They do have a somewhat impressive but short list of notable attendees:

https://sjnacademies.org/alumni-center/notable-alumni/

Nice campus:

https://sjnacademies.org/about/our-location/

Mr Lang of Home Construction and greeting card fame took over development of Delafield a while back before being virtually run out of town for attempting too much control and dominance of the architecture.    He transformed most of the architecture of downtown and surrounding area.    It looks a lot like a berg in New England vs a Wisconsin town now.    The Delafield Hotel is very expensive and is his design to appear to be a old former Textile Mill, even though it's brand new construction.   It's either a 3 or 4 star hotel and looms over the skyline in a rather menacing way.   Very expensive to eat there too.   Mr Lang just went like gang busters reconstructing buildings or constructing new ones and easily expanded the downtown area by 40%.

BTW, FWIW, St. Johns is Epispicol in demonination, which is more compatible with the military than say Catholic would be.    Though we have a kick azz new Catholic Bishop visiting our parish this Sunday in Texas, almost a full career as a USAF Chaplin with a tour in Northern Afghanistan responsible for 12 combat outposts.    Is now, Bishop of Fairbanks, Alaska.....pretty young to be a full Bishop too (thats just under Cardinal).    Well, time to end this.....way off on tangents.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, May 16, 2021 10:00 AM

In the Roman Catholic Church, Cardinal is less of a rank than an honorary title.  As an example, the formal position of Cardinal Blase Supich is Archbishop of Chicago.  He held the same position before he received his Red Hat.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, May 16, 2021 11:39 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
In the Roman Catholic Church, Cardinal is less of a rank than an honorary title.  As an example, the formal position of Cardinal Blase Supich is Archbishop of Chicago.  He held the same position before he received his Red Hat.

Not completely correct.

There is still a hierarchy between Cardinal and non-Cardinal as well as an edict that all future Cardinals be at least a Bishop (along with granted special dispensations).   Far more complicated than your over simplification above.    Why we even had to go down this path is another matter that only you can answer as it is already on a tangent to the larger discussion as stated above.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, May 17, 2021 5:13 PM

Paul Milenkovic

 

 
charlie hebdo

Very interesting.  A lot of their students were from the Chicago suburbs.  Usually unruly boys from rich families in need of some discipline.

There must have been some interchange at the Milwaukee North Shore terminal? 

 

 

 

It was my understanding that the Apollo 13 commander Jim Lovell's son was enrolled in St John's Military Academy, with his family residing in Wisconsin.  I don't know if it was the Tom Hank's movie or a non-fictional PBS documentary depicting the son and his classmates anxiously awaiting the fate of his dad in that crippled spacecraft.

The glib categorization of individuals is something my employer addresses.  Implicit Bias Training is something everyone who works there attends.

 

Yes glib and simply a time-bound  overgeneralization, based on a small sample of individuals I was aware of back in the day.  I should have said a least some kids and added that the reputation of St. Johns back in the 60s-70s was that it was a good school and good place to send offspring who needed structure, if you had the bucks. 

Awareness training is required at all Illinois places of higher education,  not just UW.  If you had paid attention you would have noted that you should make your criticisms direct,  i. e. take responsibility for them rather than your passive-aggressive  approach. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 1:39 PM

North Shore's local Milwaukee north-south streetcar line shared a short section of track with TMR&L streetcars.  And before the North Shore's own substantial Milwaukee Terminal and its small yard were built, North Shore trains used east-west TMR&L tracks to reach their old terminal, closer to the Lake.

There are also reports of ast leasr one CNS&M charter going north on the former Milwaukee Northern interurban line.  Also, I believe there was a railfan charter of one of the TMR&L articulated three-truck interurban cars over the North Shore.

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:19 AM

CMStPnP

   I had no idea the North Shore Line cars were even compatible with Milwaukee Electric Railway clearances and voltage and such.    

 

For the most part, North Shore passenger cars will have few problems with clearances on other railroads.  They were built to be able to run over the tight confines of the L.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, May 22, 2021 3:36 PM

For a long time, there was a weekday-daily round-trip TMR&L-CNS&M trolley freight-train, not involving steam-road freightcars (which bith systems also moved, the TMR&L in limited locations.).

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, May 22, 2021 9:10 PM

daveklepper
For a long time, there was a weekday-daily round-trip TMR&L-CNS&M trolley freight-train, not involving steam-road freightcars (which bith systems also moved, the TMR&L in limited locations.).

According to the new book I bought that focuses in on just the Waukesha to Watertown line.    Two freight trains a day across the line.   After completion of the branch to Watertown, annual revenue was approx $275,000.00 a year for the Watertown line.   That was a lot of money back then.

Interesting tidbit, Watertown plank road which the Milwaukee Road largely followed West was to originally to jog South to Delafield before proceeding to Ocoonomowoc.    Some disagreement with Delafield at the time caused it to bypass the town and keep on the straighter trajectory.    Imagine though if that happened and the small dogleg it would have put in the Milwaukee Roads mainline.

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