"The Guns of the South" goes into Lee's character in quite some depth. I can guarantee that you will like that story as it's told in an almost credible way. I have to find the one you're talking about.
By the way, you do know that Rob't E. Lee was an Episcopalian, right? Christ Church, Alexandria (Vestryman) if I'm not mistaken.
Uh oh. It seems R.E. Lee had a connection with a number of Episcopal churches in eastern Virginia. Mea culpa for not fact checking this first.
George Washington was a vestryman in Alexandria's Christ Church, one of the first if I remember correctly. As Lee grew up in Alexandria I'm sure he attended same. Ironic a man who was considered the exemplar of the plantation south was actually a city boy.
Washington also had a connection with Pohick Episcopal Church, just south of Mount Vernon, the church still stands today.
During the Civil War Lee attended services at Saint Paul's Epicopal when he was in Richmond, the church is still there, just off Capitol Square. Lee also worshipped there for a time after the war until he took the position of president of Washington College.
I think this is about a week old.
http://reut.rs/1XdDS5j
The ad was pulled about the 24th of November
Rgds IGN
Although GW was raised as an Anglican and regularly attended Episcopalian churches, he never used the words in C___t's name or mentioned the Christian's Savior in any of his correspondance that has been found. It is assumed by many that his internal philosophy was actually Diest, and he was not and is not today, the only one who de-emphasizes the Trinitarian concept in their own personal religion. Indeed, I have known an Episcopalian Priest who expressed this view and mentioned GW in a long discussion about our beliefs.
GW did stgrongly believe in tolerance and friendship across both political and religious boundaries, and anyone contacting me at daveklepper@yahoo.com can receive a reproduction of a GW letter stating exactly that.
I ought to make certain of my own beliefs clear so you know where the above comments are coming from. Since I am a religious Jew, I therefore believe that miracles are possible. Since I believe they are possible, I am not in any postion to refute or deny any of the New Testament miracles. It is just that they are not a required belief for me, and I can keep an open mind. My response to the Christian Evangelist who tries to convert me is: You pray for the coming of the Messiah, I pray for the coming of the Messiah, when the Messiah comes, the Messiah will say whether you aee right or I am right or whether there is some idea that workis for both of us.
I would like to know more about Robert E. Lee's philosophy from his correspondance.
I should add that at one time I did some acoustical consulting work for Christ Church Alexandria, possibly it was in connection with some revisions or replacement of the organ or sound system. I think it was a combined trip in connection with some other work in the DC area, and of course I came and went by train.
The closest Washington came to mentioning Jesus Christ was in a address where he referred to Him as "The Divine Author of our blessed religion."
Washington was a religious man, but he wasn't one to wear his heart on his sleeve, in a manner of speaking. And the general certainly wasn't a religious bigot, by any means. He considered religious bigotry stupid and a waste of time, not caring what a man's religion was as long as a man was good man.
In the fall of 1775 when he was commanding the army around Boston the Massachusetts troops began celebrating what they called "Pope's Day", a New England version of "Guy Falkes Day" where the Pope was burned in effigy. A furious General Washington put a stop to it immediately.
Quite a man, George Washington. The more I read about him the more I admire him. He certainly wasn't the "Marble Man" the 19th Century myth-makers tried to make him, a lot more intelligent than some of his contemporaries gave him credit for being, and a bit ahead of his time in a lot of ways.
There was a very interesting book that was published a few years ago called "The Founders On Religion." Let me tell you, those gentlemen had something to say about everything, religion and its peripheral subjects.
The time of the Revolution has been referred to as a time when the United States had greatness to spare, as far as the Founders were concerned. Hard to argue with that premise.
Did you know that G.W. had a tenuous connection with railroads? I used to inspect boilers for an insurance company and my territory was New York State south of Albany and north of Westchester. I would travel through the Catskills a lot and you could see remnants of the N.Y.O. & W. here and there. There was a roadbed passing through the property of an old hotel where I looked at the boiler. The guy said that George Washington used to take the train and stay at the hotel back in the day. What did W.C. Fields say? "Never smarten up a chump."
When I worked in a gunshop back in the 80's we'd have occurrances similar to the above. Folks would come in with a "rifle my great-grandfather used in the Civil War and any idea what it's worth?"
Nine times out of ten the rifle would be a Model 1873 Springfield breechloader, commonly referred to as a "Trapdoor Springfield." Goes without saying they never looked at the breech markings since the Civil War ended in 1865.
What did we do? Well as Abe Lincoln said, we "Let 'em up easy."
British actor / comedian John Cleese said we have a real fixation with Hitler in this country and I think he is right. He used to jokingly refer to the History Channel on Cable as the Hitler Channel because they only have shows about Hitler 24 by 7. Which is somewhat true. These "what if" scenarios about the Third Reich I find in real poor taste and demonstrative that Hollywood has lost most of it's imagination and inventiveness with script writing. Much like the spreading cancer of reality shows where real people are paid to defile themselves and act out scenarios that would never actually happen minus the TV Cameras.
I watched Andy Cohen a few times with his Real Housewife series and this guy is egging on the actors to intensify the on screen conflicts and make them worse. Pretty sure he has his place in hell reserved for him.
Look Who's Back
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/06/hitler-look-whos-back-director-david-wnendt-interview
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Looks like it's going to be "Deutshland is happeee and gayyy" all over again.
I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but what kind of outcry did advertisements for Springtime For Hitler, I mean The Producers, get? Surely there must have been many print ads throughout the New York area while the Broadway show ran. Is it still running in New York? Is it running on the road? And how about either of the 2 movies, one on which the Broadway show's based, the other based on the Broadway show.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
Who needs Hitler when we have Donald Trump.
Gardendance, I dunno about those shows but I laughed myself into a pounding headache when I watched the movie back in 1969 or whenever it was. Dick Shawn remains the best Hitler ever portrayed!
I remember "The Producers" from 1968. There weren't any complaints about it, and I believe Mel Brooks got an Oscar for it, "Best Screenplay" if I'm not mistaken. The "Springtime for Hitler" opening, both in the original and in the more current version always has me rolling on the floor!
I've heard that "Hitler Channel" tag before. It started back in the 80's when the Arts and Entertainment channel showed a Hitler documentary, it got good ratings, so they started showing more. Eventually someone called them "The Hitler Channel" and that was the end of the Third Reich documentarys.
Nowadays the History Channel in all it's iterations isn't shy about showing any Third Reich documentarys. Their attitude is "Call us the 'Hitler Channel' all you want, just as long as you watch!"
The fascination for Hitler? Well, I was watching a Hitler documentary one time when Lady Firestorm walked in the room while they were showing a film clip of Hitler with his dog Blondi. There was Adolf petting and cuddling his dog, even going as far as laying his head on Blondi's. Lady F was shocked, blurting out "How could a man who loved his dog so much do such horrible things?"
"Ah," I said, "That's Adolf for you. A warped, twisted, unfathomable, unknowable, and at the same time utterly fascinating man. Even dead, he's full of surprises."
And that's why he won't go away.
A few years ago a writer noted that while Hitler could be seen on TV every night in the USA, photos or videos of Sir Winston Churchill or President Franklin D. Roosevelt on TV were very infrequent.
Perhaps Evil is more fascinating than Virtue.
Another explanation may be that World War II was the last war America actually won. I bet when the Boomers die off in the next 20 years there will be considerably less obsession with Herr Schickelgruber.
ChessieCat123 The South sided with Great Britain and instead of sending there cotton north they sent it to Great Britain which pissed off the North to no end.
The South sided with Great Britain and instead of sending there cotton north they sent it to Great Britain which pissed off the North to no end.
This is why I hate Civil War discussions. Real history gets mixed up with local Hick-Story from people that lived in the South and either wrongly interpreted events or were just taught outright falsehoods in school.
Regardless of where the cotton was processed (which I won't take on). Historically throughout the Civil War, Great Britiain took a principaled stand against slavery and against the South. So in fact your stating that the South sided with the Union........which is ridiculous. It's all over the internet, example after example where Great Britain said "Thanks, but No Thanks" to the Southern rebellion and each time Great Britain took that stand it eloquently told the South that slavery was a far greater evil than any position or any stand that the North was taking against the South and that it could not side with the South for that reason.
Firelock76 When I worked in a gunshop back in the 80's we'd have occurrances similar to the above. Folks would come in with a "rifle my great-grandfather used in the Civil War and any idea what it's worth?" Nine times out of ten the rifle would be a Model 1873 Springfield breechloader, commonly referred to as a "Trapdoor Springfield." Goes without saying they never looked at the breech markings since the Civil War ended in 1865. What did we do? Well as Abe Lincoln said, we "Let 'em up easy."
I have run into this as well but via another area. The Sons or Daughters of Confederate Veterans groups that have Chapters in the Midwest and you ask a member about their Confederate Veteran (just out of curiousity).........and it quickly comes apparent that it might as well be a fictional character they made up. Now both groups claim fiercly that they vet members and make sure that something like that never happens and that true members can be traced to an actual Confederate veteran in their family tree. In my own personal experience with both groups I would throw down the BS flag on that claim. My own opinion is both groups are "safe" environments where likeminded people of a specific prejudice can get together and remince about how nice the South was before the Civil War.
The south before the Civil War? Weren't all the women as hot as Vivien Leigh and the men as cool as Rhett Butler? Thinking frankly here.
I don't know if all the women in the South prior to "The Late Unpleasantness" were as hot as Vivian Leigh, but I've met plenty of Southern ladies who were just as nice, (and HOT too!) as Olivia DeHavilland's Melanie Wilkes!
Want to get a fight started between old movie buffs? Ask who was the better actress, Olivia DeHavilland or her sister Joan Fontaine. Then watch the fun.
The "men as cool as Rhett Butler?" NO-BODY'S as cool as Rhett Butler!
Well, maybe Jeb Stuart was...
All part of Hollywood's romanticized treatment of the "Lost Cause" myth. See James McPherson for an exploration of the myth and reality.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
In 8th grade US history our final exam question was "Who really won the Civil War?" I remember thinking at the time the answer was obvious, but the older I get the more I see another side. The plantation mentality was never destroyed and the losers of the insurrection were soon back in their positions of leadership both locally and federally.
"The Birth of a Nation" and "Gone With the Wind" both perpetuate the myth of a noble cause. The standard explanation as to why this myth was allowed to develop is that the post-War North was so busy making money from the growth of the US economy that, coupled with a cooling of abolitionist fever that had been on everyone's mind since about 1845, it looked the other way as Open Season was declared on the defenceless Freemen and women of the old confederacy.
Yesterday, I believe, was the 150th anniversary of the abolition of slavery in the United States.
As for Civil War era "cool" may I nominate Brig. Gen. Joshua Stuart Chamberlain of Maine?
NKP guy In 8th grade US history our final exam question was "Who really won the Civil War?" I remember thinking at the time the answer was obvious, but the older I get the more I see another side. The plantation mentality was never destroyed and the losers of the insurrection were soon back in their positions of leadership both locally and federally. "The Birth of a Nation" and "Gone With the Wind" both perpetuate the myth of a noble cause. The standard explanation as to why this myth was allowed to develop is that the post-War North was so busy making money from the growth of the US economy that, coupled with a cooling of abolitionist fever that had been on everyone's mind since about 1845, it looked the other way as Open Season was declared on the defenceless Freemen and women of the old confederacy. Yesterday, I believe, was the 150th anniversary of the abolition of slavery in the United States. As for Civil War era "cool" may I nominate Brig. Gen. Joshua Stuart Chamberlain of Maine?
The bigger question is, what would the post Civil War period have looked like had not President Lincoln been assassinated? We know Andrew Johnson had to fight through an Impeachment process during that period as well as the reconstruction politics of the day. What sort of actions and/or programs would Lincoln have championed to mend the nation after the war?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Firelock, I can just picture a latter-day Rhett Butler steal his girlfriend's car with a drink in his hand, get in a chase with the cops and then throw the car in a river then calmly light up a smoke and wait to be arrested. Cool? I tell ya!
Dittos to the comment of Brevet Major General Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain being cool! Talk about someone keeping his head in a bad situation and turning it around.
"BAYONET!!!!!!"
Ever seen that film "Gettysburg?" Good movie, but let me tell you, I've been to Little Round Top and seen the ground where the 20th Maine made their stand and the ground's a LOT rougher than they showed in the film.
I've also been to where the 12th New Jersey, armed with smoothbore muskets and "buck and ball" loads, stopped Pickett's Charge cold.
With a little help with the rest of the Army Of The Potomac, of course.
Those Jersey guys earned their ration of calzones that day!
schlimm All part of Hollywood's romanticized treatment of the "Lost Cause" myth. See James McPherson for an exploration of the myth and reality.
Hollywood is not the only organization perpetuating it, unfortunately.
BTW, as I remember History the South set fire to it's own cotton crop and burned it in the field at the start of the Civil War and it was a few years before it recovered to previous levels......so I have my doubts they sent it to Britain to be processed. Why they did this Hari - Kari manuever is anyones guess. It's still a head shaker today.
I've never heard of the South destroying it's cotton crops at the start of the Civil War. I know they did freeze cotton exports to Europe as kind of a political move to pressure the British and French governments into recognizing the Confederacy, both the British and the French fabric industries used a tremendous amount of American cotton.
It was a stupid thing to do, the smart thing would have been to get as much cotton out of the South as quickly as possible and stockpile it in European warehouses as trading stock.
By the way, one of the causes of secession was a proposed increase in the US import tariffs. The South had a good deal going, being Europe's cotton field. Cotton out, European manufactured goods in. An import tariff increase would have upset the apple cart.
The slavery question was only one of several things that lead to scession and war. As a 1930's historian C.E. Woodard said "A civil war is built the same way a house is built, one brick at a time."
Geez, how did we go from a Axis subway car to the Civil War?
We got there via the Episcopal Church. Remember?
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