LIRR getting flak.

[aegrotatio]

Not sure how any form of PTC would have effected any change in outcome of a crash in which a vehicle is fouling the track.  Especially, and in personal experience, if that fouling of track did not include the crossing gate falling on the roof of the vehicle.  It happened to me in real life and we were only saved because the signals dropped to stop when the crossing gate fell on our car's roof.

 

[wanswheel]

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/818668212082671617

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Deadly-LIRR-Train-Crash-Car-Tracks-Brentwood-Farmingdale-410179575.html

[MidlandMike]

I presume the big crowd was SUNY students going home for the holiday.

[wanswheel]

Happy Thanksgiving!

[wanswheel]

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dor5YAsmQtU6G4MwkdGgWQFcfaRtM&q=lirr&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiewpDL5szPAhWINx4KHQd3BZ8QqgIIKjAA

[MidlandMike]

The plan to repurpose Madison Square Garden seems more like a trainshed than a station, with its wide open ground entrances and "passive" heating and cooling (read, no heating or cooling).  I looks like a very uninviting place on a leaden sky winter day.  It realy looks nice, but it seems built for looks rather than comfort.

[blue streak 1]

wanswheel

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/09/30/opinion/penn-station-reborn.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=image&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

 

 

This plan IMHO has much merit.  It appears to be the first real effort to avoid the pitfalls of the Monyhan plan.  Since we cannot revive the original Penn Station design this plan would certainly equal the new Berlin station. 

 

However although most of the plan is the upper area the platform area is somewhat neglected.  The eventual plans for the new East river tunnel bores 5 and 6 were not included.  Along with that is the need to lenghten platforms eastward for longer trains or parking two trains on the same platform track.  NJ Transit, LIRR, and Amtrak will all need that additional capacity.  With just a quick look at this plan the need for additional stairs and esculators to the platforms was not seen. 

 

Then the final impediment is having to wait for the new water tunnel (3?) to be built past all the proposed station area so water tunnel 1 can be taken out of service for repairs and not possibly collaspe if station work done was to be done over 1.  

[wanswheel]

Interesting article by NY Times’ architecture critic envisions using Madison Square Garden’s steel frame to build a high-ceilinged, glass-walled room at Penn Station.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/09/30/opinion/penn-station-reborn.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=image&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

[Electroliner 1935]

Make no little plans, said Daniel Burnham and I think somebody listened. I hope this comes to pass. 

[wanswheel]

Gov. Cuomo says Farley Post Office building will have both Amtrak and LIRR.

http://www.mta.info/news-lirr-long-island-rail-road-penn-station-moynihan-train-hall/2016/09/27/governor-cuomo-unveils

https://www.flickr.com/photos/governorandrewcuomo/sets/72157673228738012

 

[081552]

Thanks for posting!

[wanswheel]

[blue streak 1]

MidlandMike

Hicksville is the busiest station on yhe LIRR?  Busier than Jamaca?

 

 

Long time since there but Jamaica is mainly a connecting station.  You should see it when 3 trains all arrive at same time and passengers pass thru middle train ( single track platform ) to get on far train or middle train.  Not so many originating passengers there. 

So depending if whether you just count Originations and destinations or all connections each station can be considered the busiest.   

[MidlandMike]

Hicksville is the busiest station on yhe LIRR?  Busier than Jamaca?

[daveklepper]

http://www.mta.info/news-lirr-long-island-rail-road-jamaica-hicksville-governor/2016/09/21/121-million-initiative

 

$121 Million Initiative to Rebuild Hicksville Station Begins Construction; $64.9 Million Contract Award to Improve Jamaica Station

 

 

September 21st, 2016

Two of the Long Island Rail Road's central hubs are about to get makeovers. Governor Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Wedensday that work has begun on a $121 million initiative to rebuild, reimagine and modernize the Hicksville station, the busiest station on Long Island. In addition, the LIRR has awarded a $64.9 million contract to create a new platform and tracks at the Jamaica station, the LIRR’s central hub and main transfer point. Renderings of the Hicksville project are available here and of the Jamaica project here. The capital investments will improve the two key stations on the LIRR's 40-mile spine between Jamaica and Ronkonkoma.

"Revamping these two heavily trafficked transportation hubs will provide better, faster and more reliable train service for Long Island Rail Road riders," Governor Cuomo said. "Time and time again, transportation investment has a ripple effect of progress and economic growth on the surrounding community. These projects are part of this administration’s aggressive and comprehensive plan to revamp the state’s infrastructure and are two more reasons why New York is Built to Lead."

Jamaica Station Enhancements

The new platform and tracks at Jamaica station will allow the LIRR to more easily re-route trains, take tracks out of service and support supplemental train service to and from Atlantic Terminal for customers attending games and events at the Barclays Center. The new platform will also feature glass-enclosed, heated waiting areas, as well as Wi-Fi and USB charging stations allowing customers to stay connected and charge their phones while they wait for the train. In addition, New York-based artist James Little will create brightly colored art glass installations on the station’s westerly bridge, and also on the stairs leading from the new station platform to the AirTrain mezzanine.

MTA Chairman and CEO Thomas F. Prendergast said, "More tracks and platforms mean fewer delays. This award for Phase I of the project, which is funded by the Capital Plan, is great news. It will help speed up what LIRR customers have come to call ‘the Jamaica Crawl,’ introduce new services such as Wi-Fi and USB charging stations, and build on our ongoing commitment to renew, enhance and expand every aspect of the MTA."

The project is one element of the Jamaica Capacity Improvements Project which will modernize Jamaica Station infrastructure, which was built in 1913. The work will streamline track configurations, which have remained largely unchanged since the station was built, and speed service. The project began in 2010 and is being carried out in two phases with a projected investment of $442 million by the end of 2019. Funding for Phase I of the project comes from a combination of the MTA’s 2010-2014 capital plan and the 2015-2019 plan.

The new platform at Jamaica, slated to open in 2019, is one in a series of the LIRR system-wide capacity improvement projects, which also include an uninterrupted second track between Farmingdale and Ronkonkoma, and a third track on the Main Line from Floral Park to Hicksville, as well as the East Side Access project to bring LIRR trains into Grand Central Terminal. Once East Side Access is complete, the new platform at Jamaica station will dramatically enhance service between Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn and Jamaica Station, enabling shuttle trains to depart every 7½ minutes during rush hour and every 15 minutes during off-peak hours, which will provide a significantly higher level of service than that available under current timetables.

Congressman Gregory W. Meeks said, "We continue to invest in the upkeep and rehabilitation of critical transportation and infrastructure, guaranteeing a more efficient commute for thousands of New Yorkers. The Hicksville and Jamaica station hubs are two of the busiest locations in the state, and these updates will not only enable us to provide more frequent train service, but dramatically improve the travel experience for our riders, overall. I look forward to the progress of this project, and thank Governor Cuomo for his commitment to this issue."

Senator James Sanders Jr. said, "Transportation is key to ensuring access to jobs, education and more. The improvements at Hicksville and Jamaica stations are a positive step forward in helping commuters reach their destinations quickly and safely. I applaud the Governor’s commitment to these projects and look forward to celebrating their completion."

Senator Leroy Comrie said, "The LIRR is a critical transportation artery and yet many of its facilities desperately need to be modernized. Thanks to Governor Cuomo, the state is undertaking a massive effort to completely transform two of the most important stations as part of his vision for transportation revitalization in New York. While I was able to allocate $300,000 for infrastructure improvements at LIRR stations, it is my hope that Governor Cuomo will continue to support my effort to see improvements at all of the stations in the 14th Senatorial District."

Assemblywoman Vivian E. Cook said, “Thanks to the Governor’s continued support of the MTA, the renovation of the Jamaica LIRR station will revitalize our aging infrastructure and improve the passenger experience. This project will overhaul the station for an easier, more reliable commute for riders every day of the week. This is the next step in the continued revitalization and transformation of Jamaica and the project will have a ripple effect of positive impacts for the entire region.”

Queens Borough President Melinda Katz said, "These projects are yet another example of Governor Cuomo’s commitment to strengthening New York’s infrastructure. The Jamaica Station project in particular will help make traveling easier and more convenient for both Queens residents and for the many visitors who transfer to the Long Island Rail Road at Jamaica after they take the AirTrain from JFK Airport. Important transportation projects like these will help guarantee that Queens will enjoy prosperity and an increased quality of life for many decades to come.”

Hicksville Station Rehabilitation

Sixteen miles east of Jamaica, work has begun on another project – a $121 million modernization of the Long Island Rail Road’s aging Hicksville station, and the preparation of an adjacent site where the railroad will build a new connection to an existing siding west of the station.

The upgrades to the 55 year old station include Wi-Fi and USB charging stations throughout the station; an enhanced interior waiting room; new platforms with glass-enclosed, heated waiting rooms; improved lighting; a translucent canopy roof; improved stairways, escalators, plaza elevators, a video security system, audio and digital communications systems and better signage. The renovated station will also include new laminated art glass installations by New York-based artist Roy Nicholson, who designed the mosaic tile art work in the station ticket office in 2001. With construction beginning this month, the station work is expected to be completed by the spring of 2018.

At the direction of Governor Cuomo, the construction timeframe was reduced to 22 months, 13 months sooner than originally planned. The Hicksville project is one of a number of LIRR projects covered by an innovative 2013 Project Labor Agreement between the LIRR and the Buildings and Construction Trades Council of Nassau and Suffolk that has helped reduce construction costs by 10%. The project is supported by the MTA Capital Program.

Kevin S. Law, President and CEO of the Long Island Association said, “The modernization and expansion of the Long Island Rail Road is critical to the economic growth of our region and thus we commend Governor Cuomo's historic investments in infrastructure projects like the Third Track and Double Track, as well as the reconstruction of a brand new LIRR station at one of our busiest hubs in Hicksville."

Senator Jack M. Martins said, "I am pleased to work with Governor Cuomo to rebuild and revitalize the Hicksville station. With better waiting areas, new platforms and more efficient service, these upgrades will transform the LIRR's most utilized station for the better. This project will make commuting easier for the thousands of residents who use the Hicksville Train Station each day."

Assemblyman Michael Montesano said, "Hicksville is the busiest station on Long Island, so it is in need of a 21st century upgrade. The improvements to the Hicksville station will streamline the daily lives of thousands of commuters and provide for a better travel experience for everyone. Under Governor Cuomo's leadership, these strategic transportation infrastructure investments support the economic growth and strength of our communities and Long Island as a whole."

40-Mile Spine from Ronkonkoma to Jamaica Improvements

The efforts to improve Jamaica and Hicksville Stations are among a number of projects designed to improve LIRR service on the busy, central spine of the railroad, a 40-mile corridor from Ronkonkoma, through Hicksville, to Jamaica. These projects include infrastructure renewal, the purchase of new trains, the expansion of the train storage yard in Ronkonkoma, the addition of pocket tracks along the Port Washington and Babylon Branches, the addition of a second track in Suffolk County and a proposed project to add a third track in Nassau County.

Available on website:

Click on the following PDFs for renderings:

 

[daveklepper]

MTA Long Island Rail Road is Co-Sponsoring ‘Car Free Day’ on Long Island on Thursday, September 22 Leave Your Car at Home and Take the Long Island Rail Road to Work MTA Long Island Rail Road is co-sponsoring the 4th Annual Car Free Day Long Island on Thursday, September 22, the day supporters hope thousands of Long Islanders who usually drive will leave their car at home and take the LIRR to work, school, or to run errands. Suffolk County will host a Car Free Day LI Summit a the Suffolk County Community College Ammerman Campus in Selden from 11 a.m. until 1 p.m. where speakers will discuss sustainiable transportation options. Later that evening, supporters will welcome commuters and residents on their way home, from 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., at the Car Free Day LI Celebration at Wyandanch Plaza. Car Free Day gives us the opportunity to consider the negative impact of single occupancy vehicles. Using cars less by using alternative modes such as the LIRR, carpooling, bicycles, walking and telecommuting helps reduce traffic, conserve energy, reduce harmful emissions, save money, and even improve fitness. This year 3,332 Long Islanders pledged to be car-free or car-lite, saving over 77 thousand miles of driving and 39 tons of CO2 emissions. Riding the rails is a great way to be car-free or car-lite, and it’s even more convenient with MTA eTix®, the mobile ticketing app that lets you purchase and use Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North Railroad tickets directly on your smartphone or mobile device. The Long Island Rail Road is committed to improving service reliability, and contributing to a car-less commute, through the development of projects like East Side Access (which will bring the LIRR into Grand Central Terminal), Double Track (adding a second track between Ronkonkoma and Farmingdale), and the LIRR Expansion Project (constructing a third track between Floral Park and Hicksville). So far this year, over 3,000 Long Island residents and workers have already pledgedto be car-free or car-lite. Others who choose to take the sustainable route, and complete a pledge online, will be eligible to win free raffle prizes including bicycles, gift cards and theater tickets. Already car free? That’s great. And, since you’re doing the right thing, you will also get the same chance to win prizes when you fill out the pledge form. A complete list of raffle prizes can be found at the promotions page on the Car Free Day LI website. World Car Free Day is actually an international environmental event celebrated on September 22 every year in over 2,000 cities around the world.

[Blackcloud 5229]

I'm retired now but when I worked 200 plus miles of ctc double track our own power supplies and old school cables on telegraph poles. rarely had a outage that wasn't taken care of quickly by local signal maintainers. Then they started installing solid state electronics to run control points with locally provided power, then reduced the maintaince forces to on weekends one man for 100 miles of territory. Solid state ctc systems run fine on the test bench and so long as power is up but when storms roll around it's catch 22. Some are run via satellite ever see the size of the sat dish?

Looks a lot like a dish/direct/tv sat dish and thier users know what happens when the T storms roll around. Gents that design these systems use common sense use real wirefor dispatch systems the 2 or 3 secound delay for voice communication will eventually cost someone thier life.

[aegrotatio]

I worked with a firm that bidded for satellite terminals (called "VSAT" in our industry) at a major American railroad.

 

I have been studying satellite technology since the 1980s and when Ku- and Ka-band was introduced, the industry learned quickly that they do not work well when it rains.  Snow, ice, clouds, fog, and smog have no effect.  It must be liquid water and only liquid water.  The more sophisticated satellite terminals increase power on the uplink to compensate for the water but nothing can be done about the downlink.

 

Now, about that downlink.  This is what DirecTV, DISH Network, Hughesnet, WildBlue, and Exede people call "rain fade" which completely blocks reception about 3 minutes before, during, and 3 minutes after a storm.  I casually asked what their railroad's PTC system will do when the downlink signal is interrupted.  The customer stated, bluntly, that signals drop to "stop" immediately.  This meant that during a rainstorm, your railroad is very likely to just stop.  And in many cases your assets go into emergency braking as the storm passes over.  So you watch on your CTC display as trains stop region by region as the storm moves overhead and isolates your PTC systems communicating via fancy modern VSAT terminals.

 

Oh, yeah, and there's that 3/4 second delay.

 

Europe discarded VSAT satellite terminals and when land lines aren't practical they use a terrestrial system called GSM-R, which is basically a cell phone connection with fancy peer-to-peer features.

 

Ku-band was bad, but Ka-band is much, much worse.  Unfortunately, Ka-band is what most modern VSAT terminals use today.

 

 

[BaltACD]

RME

BaltACD

seems as if the command to transmit has to make a round trip to the satellite and back before the channel is actually readied for transmission.

That would be right... plus the latency on the satellite while the downlink is selected and established.  Interesting that the speed of light is one of the limiting factors in your quality of service!

The delay is a real pain in trying to hold a conversation with delays as it happens each and every time you go to initiate a segment of the conversation with someone in the field - I don't know how it really affects personnel in the field using the Vsat towers - the Train Dispatcher initiates the PTT and 2 to 3 seconds later sees on his communication console that he can now transmit.

With the set up of the radios being PTT.  If you are trying to transmit, you can't hear anything the field is trying to say to you until you release the PTT, then your response will get the delay again.  PAIN PAIN PAIN

Land lines to/from the radio transmitters don't have the delay.

One thing I might add, is that a number of the more remote PTC installations are using Vsat data transmission.  I have my own misgivings how well and reliably this will actually work.

[RME]

BaltACD

seems as if the command to transmit has to make a round trip to the satellite and back before the channel is actually readied for transmission.

That would be right... plus the latency on the satellite while the downlink is selected and established.  Interesting that the speed of light is one of the limiting factors in your quality of service!

[BaltACD]

RME

BaltACD

additionally satellite systems are disrupted by severe weather (just ask Dish or Direct TV users what happens when T'storms are in the area).

This has nothing to do with storm intensity per se, or any wind or electrical effects; it's absorbance of the satellite signal when a large mass of atmospheric water interrupts 'line-of-sight' from the geosynchronous satellite to the dish facing it.  Is there critical railroad data that is handled over geosync connections susceptible to this?

My carrier is using satellite radio for train dispatchers at some locations.  The service sucks as there is a detectable delay between pressing the PTT pedal and actually being able to transmit - seems as if the command to transmit has to make a round trip to the satellite and back before the channel is actually readied for transmission.

Some locations are using satellite transmitted Code Line for some CTC control points.  The delay in this installation is not as obvious as you are not trying to hold a conversation with another human being.

[RME]

BaltACD

additionally satellite systems are disrupted by severe weather (just ask Dish or Direct TV users what happens when T'storms are in the area).

This has nothing to do with storm intensity per se, or any wind or electrical effects; it's absorbance of the satellite signal when a large mass of atmospheric water interrupts 'line-of-sight' from the geosynchronous satellite to the dish facing it.  Is there critical railroad data that is handled over geosync connections susceptible to this?

[aegrotatio]

It's from ten years ago but this is a good book on the subject.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Gravy-Train-Inside-Look-Island/dp/155395484X

[BaltACD]

blue streak 1

What causes these weather related delays on LIRR?  Last time there noted  that there were many locations that signal wires were either pole line and / or pole cable.  Is that still the case ?

Can't speak directly to the LIRR, however, in recent years carrier's signal systems have become dependent on 3rd party electrical power and communications systems, additionally satellite systems are disrupted by severe weather (just ask Dish or Direct TV users what happens when T'storms are in the area).  Throw in several hundred thousands of volts of Lightning striking electronics installations designed for proper operation on millivolts and you have problems galore to resolve for 'seamless' operations.

Under the best of conditions Nature can be held at bay, in Severe Weather Nature is undefeated over the long haul.

[blue streak 1]

What causes these weather related delays on LIRR?  Last time there noted  that there were many locations that signal wires were either pole line and / or pole cable.  Is that still the case ? 

[Overmod]

BroadwayLion

Notice says "Weather Related Signal Trouble" and it has also closed service to Brooklyn.

That is perhaps the most colossal understatement since Sandy.  Some of the most severe weather I've ever seen on local radar -- and I lived in the area until 1992 and kept a house there until almost 1998 -- went through during that time.  I'm not surprised it affected LIRR rail operations; in fact, I'm a little surprised there weren't NEC cat failures all over the place...

[rdamon]

Bad storm with high winds and lightning on Monday that took down several trees.

[BroadwayLion]

Notice says "Weather Related Signal Trouble" and it has also closed service to Brooklyn. Problem seems to be at Jamaica.

Ergo, other NYP services ought to be intact.

LION wonders what has happened.

ROAR

[blue streak 1]

LIRR had major weather delays Monday evening.  Closed Penn station.   Now what happens to the Amtrak passenger if they cannot get to their trains.  Also NJT train passengers ?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/severe-weather-wreaks-havoc-long-island-rail-road-service-article-1.2725877