Light Rail and the Classsic Interurban Trolley

[daveklepper]

which, of course, as zero to do with a good railfan definition of what is and what is not an interurban, the North Shore being a very good case.  The PATCO Philadelphia - Franklin Bridge - Lindeonwald line was rebuilt-built legally as an interurban, but it is clearly heavy-rail rapid transit.  The Hudson and Manhattan was built legally as a railroad, so it could be thru routed with the PRR Journal Sq. - Newark, but it too is heavy-rail rapid transi.  I agree the typical interurban had street running, but most of the times it was not as extensive as you claim, and most of the times intelligent scheduling avoided delays to the interurban cars.  I rode LVT's Liberty Bell in regular service possibly a dozen times, counting round trips as two, and never once were we held up by a local car between the junction with the South Bethleham line and 8th and Hamilton in downtown Allentown.  Fan trips were different, because of the desire to photograph the interurban car with the local car.  The same applies to the North Shore in Milwaukee.  It doesn't take rocket science intelligence to schedual the departure of a local car from either the downtown or city limits terminanl immediately after the interurban leaves, with it arriving at the other end just before the next interurban.  With headways seldome shorter than every half hour, hourly service being more typical, there was no reason for local cars to delay the interurban in most situations.

Granted, there was the case of the frequent-service Washington Avenue streetcars delaying the T&EI, then the Indiana RR interurbans leaving Indianapolis for Richmond, to connect with D&W cars to Dayton.  But by the time Indiana RR took over the D&W and ran through cars to Dayton, they abandoned that route, adoting one with longer mileage but without the extensive street runing.

My own experience with interurbans:

Quebec - St. Joachim, formerly Quebec Ry. Light and Power, then CN    All PRW, no street running

Laural Line, Scranton - Willksbarre    again alll PRW

Lehigh Valley Transit, lots of short sections of street running without local cars, longer section South Bethlahem Jc. - downtown, handled with schedling.   However, on one trip Easton - Allentown on the Easton Limited, we were delayed because an older car substituted for the usual ex-Dayton and Troy lighweight, and we missed our slot at Bethlahem, and we caught up to and were delayed behind a Minci Trail local car, but this was an exception.

Perhaps you can give specific examples of journeys reported with these delays?

Baltimore and Annapolis   All PRW    Granted, however, when they ran into Washington, probably delays by Benning streetcars did occur, since it was a close-headway line.

Waterloo Ceder Falls and Northern   Very little street running with no interference

The three Chicago Insull lines - already discussed

Swiss, Dutch, German, and Belgian interurbans and the Isle of Man,  nearly all cases, the local service in the street-running prortion is only provided by the interurban cars themselves.  The single exception now is the Rhinebahn between Manheim and Heidelburg, which has street running with local cars at both ends, but these are short enough so scheduling permits operation without delay.

In 1960, when I rode the Localbahn between Vienna and Baden, the subway entrance to the Opera terminal in Vienna was still far in the future, but again because of scheduling, I do not remember any delay from local service.

I can only speak from my own experience and from what I have read of earlier travels on interurbans.

[daveklepper]

I should add West Penn and Pittsburgh Railways.  WP had street running in about ten small cities and towns it served.  The only local streetcar line, run with one car on a half hour headway, was the Connolsville - South Connolsville line, and it shared possibly about five blocks, less than half a mile, of track with the Connolsville - Uniontown "back way" line, which also handled local passengers.  In all other cases, the interurban cars also performed the local work.

On the north side of the Smithfield Street Bridge, the two PR interurban lines shared the tracks of their downtown loop with the local streetcar lines.  But they made the same stops, and the total length of the downtown loop was about a mile.  Once on the bridge, it was all PRW, through the Mt. Washington Tunnel and beyond.  Except in Washington, PA.  Washington, PA had two local streetcar lines, called, East-West and North-South, operated with deck-roof lightweight Peter Witt double-end cars.  The "north" part of the N-S line was shared with the interurban from Pittsburgh.  Scheduling made inteference unnecessary.   The local cars ran on about a 20-minute headway, 15 minutes during the rush hours, while the interurban ran on an hourly headway, half-hour during rush hours, if my memory is correct, with one extra trip added in the morning and one in the evening.  The other extra interurban rush hour cars on the Pittsburgh - Washington line did not go all the way to Washington.

[daveklepper]

I should add West Penn and Pittsburgh Railways.  WP had street running in about ten small cities and towns it served.  The only local streetcar line, run with one car on a half hour headway, was the Connolsville - South Connolsville line, and it shared possibly about five blocks, less than half a mile, of track with the Connolsville - Uniontown "back way" line, which also handled local passengers.  In all other cases, the interurban cars also performed the local work.

On the north side of the Smithfield Street Bridge, the two PR interurban lines shared the tracks of their downtown loop with the local streetcar lines.  But they made the same stops, and the total length of the downtown loop was about a mile.  Once on the bridge, it was all PRW, through the Mt. Washington Tunnel and beyond.  Except in Washington, PA.  Washington, PA had two local streetcar lines, called, East-West and North-South, operated with deck-roof lightweight Peter Witt double-end cars.  The "north" part of the N-S line was shared with the interurban from Pittsburgh.  Scheduling made inteference unnecessary.   The local cars ran on about a 20-minute headway, 15 minutes during the rush hours, while the interurban ran on an hourly headway, half-hour during rush hours, if my memory is correct, with one extra trip added in the morning and one in the evening.  The other extra interurban rush hour cars on the Pittsburgh - Washington line did not go all the way to Washington.

I have read about the Union Railway in Oklahoma, which was really, like the typical lines you refer to, much like a very extended streetcar line.  The interurban cars performed the local work in all towns served, without any specific local cars.

Pacific Electric did share tracks with narrow-gauge local LA Rys cars on their southern division, but in many cases this meant just a few blocks before PRW was reached.  It would be interesting to know how Texas Electric fared in Dallas.  Possibly you have a good case there.  In Peoria, IT had a situation much like PR in Pittsburgh, while in St. Louis it was PRW.

[Falcon48]

In response to daveklepper's note of January 15:

I think it would be useful to go back to the question that started this thread.  It was about the difference between “classic interurban trolleys” and Light Rail Transit (“LRT”).  My earlier posts weren’t addressing the differences between the “interurbans” that survived the mass extinction of the interurban rail industry in the 1930’s and modern LRT’s.    I was addressing the “classic” interurbans which comprised the bulk of the interurban rail  industry, most of which didn't survive the 30’s.

As I previously mentioned, most of the relative handful of interurban properties that survived the 1930’s debacle had physical plants that enabled them to be commuter carriers and/or carload freight haulers.  Of course, these railroads didn’t have the issues with street running that the majority of the industry did – that’s one reason they survived the 1930’s and the others didn’t.  In Chicago, NSL, CA&E, and South Shore became commuter railroads, because the absence of street running in Chicago enabled them to perform a viable commuter service (at least from a service standpoint, if not financially). And the physical plants of most of the survivors also enabled them to provide fairly extensive carload freight service and interchange it with connections, something most interurbans could only dream of.  All of the Insull lines in the Chicago area handled substantial volumes of carload freight.  Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern, which you mention, is another example of this.  It probably wasn’t much of a commuter road, but it was an important freight road, and was eventually acquired by its connections for its freight business,  Ditto the Fort Dodge, Des Moines & Southern (also an Iowa road, later acquired by C&NW) and Illinois Terminal (later acquired by a consortium of its connecting freight roads).

Now, let’s contrast this with a “classic” interurban – the kind of railroad that was typical of the industry and went out of business by the boatload in the 1930’s.  You mention the interurbans you have ridden.  I’ve ridden many too, but probably not as many as you (I may be a little younger).  But this is a pointless comparison.   All of the U.S. interurbans you and I have ridden are survivors of the 1930’s, and most of them survived precisely because they were different than the bulk of the industry.

There’s wealth of material available to demonstrate the large amount of street running “typical” interurbans had to face in a major city.  I just happen to have a lot of material on the extensive Cleveland, Ohio interurban network (none of which survived the 1930’s).  All of the Cleveland interurbans reached downtown over the tracks of the local street railway company (Cleveland Railways).  Here are some gory details:

Cleveland Columbus & Southwestern – Two routes through Cleveland shared with city streetcars , one about 8 miles (via Lorain) , the other about 5 miles (also on Lorain, but then diverging at 106^th street). Available timetables show about 40 minutes to traverse this trackage (doesn’t distinguish between alternate routes).

Cleveland & Eastern (Eastern Ohio Traction) – Two routes through Cleveland shared with city streetcars, one route 7 miles (via Woodland & Kinsman) and the other 8 miles (via Cedar & Mayfield).  Can’t determine running time for Cleveland segments from available timetables

Cleveland Painesville & Eastern – Two routes through Cleveland shared with city streetcars: the “Main Line” (via Euclid), 9.5 miles, and the “Shore Line” (via St. Claire), 6 miles.  Timetables show 50 minutes to traverse the “Shore Line” street trackage and 1 hour to traverse the Euclid "Main Line" street trackage. 

Lake Shore Electric - 8 miles of trackage in Cleveland shared with city streetcars.  Timetables show about 32 minutes to traverse.  This is probably a little faster than other street running segments used by Cleveland interurbans because (as I mentioned in an earlier post), much if it was side of the road (on Clifton).

Northern Ohio Trackage & Light – 5 miles shared trackage, mostly on Broadway.  Timetable shows about 30 minutes to traverse.

Needless to say,  30 minutes to 1 hour just to get between city limits and downtown doesn’t make for a very viable commuter rail service.  And this is just to get through urban Cleveland - it doesn't include the additional time needed beyond city limits to reach outlying communities where the prospective commuters would reside.  Also, all of the above railroads had street running in many intermediate towns and in their other terminal cities.

Here’s another  example of the amount of street running on a “classic” interurban  - the Aurora, Elgin & Fox River,  a Chicago area interurban that lasted to 1935.  I’m using this one because I happen to have  maps which allow me to calculate the total street running on this property.  By the 1930’s, the AEFR was still running a Carpentersville-Elgin-Aurora interurban through a string of small to medium size communities along the Fox River.  AEFR probably didn’t have too much trouble with local streetcars, both because of the relatively small size of its principle cities (Elgin and Aurora) and the fact it controlled the local street car service.  But it had a lot of street running.  The Carpentersville-Elgin-Aurora route was about 34 miles.  Of this, slightly over 10 miles was in city streets (in Carpentersville, West Dundee, Elgin, St. Charles, Geneva, Batavia and Aurora) - nearly a third.  Available timetables show 85 minutes for the 29-mile Elgin-Aurora segment, and 26 minutes for the Elgin-Carpentersvile segment, or an overall average of about 18 mph .  Not exactly the NSL Skokie Valley route.     Service like this was highly vulnerable to automobile competition, and was easily provided by the buses of the day once parallel highways were paved.

Finally, you appear to have taken some offense to my statement that the ICC  didn’t consider many of the surviving interurbans to be “interurbans” for purposes of various Federal railroad laws (which, at the time,  were not applicable to “interurbans”).  But, if one is looking at the kind of transportation service a railroad is performing, rather what its rolling stock looks like,  the ICC classification is actually a pretty good indicator of whether a property was still a “classic” interurban or had evolved into something else.   A “classic” interurban typically didn’t have any carload freight (or, at best, very little).  Most didn't have physical plants that could support this type of service, because of street running, excessive curvature and other factors.  The ICC criteria reflects this,  One of the main criteria the ICC used to determine whether an electric railroad property was an exempt “interurban” or an electrified part of the general railroad system was the extent to which the railroad participated in carload freight interchanged with the general railroad system.  A "classic" interurban handling little if any carload freight would be an "interurban" under this criteria. 

 

[daveklepper]

If you wish to use the ICC definition of what is an interurban, and then obviously rule out something like PATCO as clearly heavy rail, how can I possibly object?  But when I posted the original posting, I truly had in mind those interurbans that did survive and that were called interurbans by the vast majority of fans despite ICC labeling.  And on occasion by railroad executives themselves, PE defining itself publicly as the largest interurban, despite the ICC designation as a railroad.  You brought up the case of Cleveland.  If the interurbans had survived, undoubtadlly they would be accessing downtown Cleveland via the rapid transit.  Rochester built a subway to get the interurbans a better approach to downtown.  Your use of the word interurban has a different emphasis than mine, and I cannot complain.  Perhaps just because I did ride seven North American interurbans and you did not have that opportunity, you are focused on the pre-1930 period while I am focused on those that survived until the end of WWII.  And you have every right to your focus.

[daveklepper]

Correction, eight, not seven, plus one freight only, Charles City Western, in the locomotive.

Further thoughts.  MUNI Metro   Everyone I know considers it light rail, but look, more than half the mileage, 90% of what is not in the subway, is on the street, and more than half of that is lane-shared with general traffic.  So why is it not just a subway-surface streetcar system like the Philadelphia City Division?  Well, two-car trains are common, and each car is articulated, with provisions for high-level and low-level loading.  Really not much different though.

The three railroad lines that initially ran over the Bay Bridge were SP's Interurban Electric, Sacremento Northern, and Key System.  All were considered interurbans, and note the name of the first, also the first to quit.  The only one legally, ICC-wise, of the three was Key, and again until IE's abandonment, and Key's move from street to ex-IE RoW,  most Key's Bridge-train tracks were on streets, in places shared with Key's local cars, but often not.  Interurban Electric was probably not even a separate corporaton, and I suspect its employees got SP checks.  And Sacramento Northern certainly reported to the ICC as a regular freight railroad with a side passenger business, including some local streetcar operatons that outlasted interurban passenger service.

[LehighLad]

Dave, great to know that you were on LVT property when I was just a mid-teen railfan, almost too late too ride the Liberty Bell line (and made it by happenstance to get on the last run).  And Charlie Houser was a great friend to railfans and an officer in the Lehigh Valley Chapter of NRHS.

At the end, LVT freight cars were of two kinds - - purpose-built cars with numbers C-dash-less than ten (single-digit).  The others were converted heavy interurbans (800-series), Jewetts, I believe, that were rebuilt for freight service when more modern cars (e.g., the ex-C&LE lightweights, 1000 series) came along.  These latter freights were numbered as C-dash-teen.  The two sets could run mixed in trains of up to three cars, and were sometimes, though rarely, coupled as individuals to trail a 700-series passenger car.  Lots of info on these in McKelvey's book and the LV Chapter NRHS publications on each of the various series (700, 800, 1000) of LVT interurban cars.

[trackrat888]

NJ Riverline serves 2 distict metro areas Camden and Trenton but is Diesal Powered. Interurban is the key word serving 2 or more urban areas

[gardendance]

Classic is the key word, in my opinion a line that has only a small fraction of its route on what was a regular railroad is not a classic interurban.

[daveklepper]

 

One 800 classic Jewett did survive, as you probably remember, think the number was 812, and it may be in a museum somewhere.  With Charlie as operator, I rode a fantrip with it.

Were any of the freight equipment trailers?  This bit of kowledge escapes my memory.   Also, by all means describe in as much detail as possible the last run.

[daveklepper]

River Line:  interurban, but not classic.  Light Rail, but not normal light rail

South Shore:  interurban, but no longer classic (if ever)  Commuter and freight rail, but not normal, just distinctive

uusual characteristics can make railfanning more interesting

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

daveklepper is right about South Shore.  The fact that it was built to steam railroad standards right from the start disqualifies it as a classic interurban.  While it retains some interurban characteristics even now, it evolved into more of an electric railroad than an interurban beginning with Insull's purchase in 1925. 

The Insull-era MU cars, especially the lengthened ones, would not have looked too out of place on the Reading or Lackawanna suburban lines.  They certainly fit in rather nicely on the IC between 115th Street and Randolph Street.

[LehighLad]

The Jewett (#801) that survived is in the Electric City Trolley Museum in Scranton PA . Car 812 (converted from LVT-built private car #999) was scrapped sometime in 1951-52 along with all other Liberty Bell cars. Last run of the Bell line is covered in issue #283 (SEP-OCT 2006) of the modeler's magazine "Trolley Talk", pgs 12&13. Too many happenings to detail here. I have seen another detailed account but don't remember it now. Sorry. Old brain now like a sieve, losing content.

[LehighLad]

Dave, I forgot to add that there were no LVT freight trailers - all were powered.  And I mistakenly said that all Liberty Bell cars were scrapped - - this is incorrect since parlor car #1030 (ex-IRR #55) went to Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine where it resides to this date.  One of the founders of the Rockhill Trolley Museum in Rockhill Furnace PA (adjacent to East Broad Top narrow gauge RR Orbisonia station) owned a furniture factory in Allentown, and he built chairs and sofas to restore that car to its original parlor car configuration (LVT had put conventional coach seats in it in the late 1940s - - the furniture then probably went to decorate LVT offices).  Seashore sometimes employs its elegance for their special events. 

[daveklepper]

Don't need to cover the details of the trip itself, but the circumstances that led you to ride it and the aftermath.

[MidlandMike]

A recent NewsWire stort told of Seattle getting the funds to continue constructing light rail to the south on the Seattle-SeaTac Airport line.  The line is to eventually reach Tacoma, which will make it an "interurban".  The line also has some street running.

[Falcon48]

Despite its name, the "Interurban Electric Railway Company" in the San Francisco Bay area was definitely not an interurban, "classic" or otherwise.  For its entire (and short)  existence as an operating railroad (1934-1941), it was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Southern Pacific.  Prior to 1934, it wasn't even a separate company - it was simply an electrified part of the larger SP system. The electric lines had been constructed (or converted from steam operation) by SP in the early 1900's as part of SP's own system and were operated as such (some segments of it were actually parts of the Central Pacific's original rail line to Oakland).  The "Interurban Electric Railway" corporation was only created in 1934 as part of the fairly complex financial and operational arrangements for operation over the Bay Bridge (which began in 1939 and, for IER, ended in 1941). To my knowlege, IER was simply an operating entity.  It didn't even own the rail lines it used - they remained the property of SP or Central Pacific.

As Dave mentions, SN reported to the ICC as a regular freight railroad.  In fact, at the time of its discontinuance of passenger service (1941), it was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Western Pacific Ry, which had acquired its component parts in 1922 (the "old" Sacramento Northern from Sacramento to Chico)  and 1927 (the San Francisco-Sacramento Railroad, formerly the Oakland, Antioch and Eastern) The two were merged into the "new" Sacramento Northern in 1928. WP's interest in these properties was primarily in their value as freight feeder lines, and they continued in this role after the passenger discontinuance.  Some of SN still exists today in freight service, but not much. I'm not sure of this, but I believe that SN, as a company, remained in existence until merged out as part of the UP-MP-WP merger in the early 1980's.

The Key System had fairly extensive carload freight operations in the East Bay.  Apparently because of this, the ICC determined in 1927 that the Key System was not an "interurban" railroad under Federal law, see Ex Parte No. 38, Rules for Testing of Other Than Steam Powered Locomotives, 122 ICC 414 at 426 (1927) 

 

[NorthWest]

MidlandMike

A recent NewsWire stort told of Seattle getting the funds to continue constructing light rail to the south on the Seattle-SeaTac Airport line. The line is to eventually reach Tacoma, which will make it an "interurban". The line also has some street running.

Well, sort of. The entire route is urban, but it will connect two distinct city centers.

[trackrat888]

NJT Riverline- Could U please tell me bus service after the cutoff time? to Trenton to Camden?

[daveklepper]

There are light rail lines that are interurban lines, already, but not of course classic interurban lines.   The line from St. Louis to Bellville and beyond is certainly one.  San Diego - San Ysirdro, coming up Norfolk - Virginia Beach, and possibly some of the Denver and Dallas lines.   The fact that there are suburban houses and paved streets between downtowns doesn't remove the interurban classification, just is one more item that removes them from the classic catagory.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Sacramento Northern is quite similar to Illinois Terminal.  Both started out as interurbans but were eventually bought out by steam railroads for their freight traffic.  Both wound up as dieselized freight operations and I believe that both gave up much of their interurban trackage in favor of trackage rights on the parallel steam railroads.

[LehighLad]

daveklepper

Don't need to cover the details of the trip itself, but the circumstances that led you to ride it and the aftermath.

 

Not sure what you mean.  I was a teenage fan and got a phone call around suppertime on September 6th 1951 from Gerhard Salomon, secretary of the Lehigh Valley Chapter of NRHS, that the stated evening would be the last run (the PA PUC that afternoon had given LVT permission for "temporary" abandonment, and LVT wasted no time).  Gerhard was friends with Fred Enters, the motorman who'd taught us both to operate during late-night local runs out in the country (Lanark, Coopersburg).  Enters was scheduled to be operator of the 11PM Limited to Norristown, and passed the word to Gerhard re the last run.  So the few fans who'd gotten the word got on at LVT's Allentown Depot on S. 8th St just before 11PM.  We got to Norristown about 1AM, turned around in the Rink siding loop, repositioned to the station, and left for the final return.  The run would normally have terminated at Souderton but by that time all cars at that barn had been taken to Allentown.  So we continued northbound, arriving at LVT's Fairview carbarn in Allentown about 3AM.

The next day LVT had crews tearing up the track at 3 locations.  McKelvey's book has a picture of one such operation that I witnessed very near my house when I returned from HS the next day.  LVT thus was going to make very sure that there would be no return from the "temporary" abandonment.

The only Liberty Bell Limited car that was saved from scrap was #1030, as stated earlier.  The Wikipedia article on Lehigh Valley Transit and the article on Albertus Meyers Bridge have more info re the company and the interurban line.

[LehighLad]

daveklepper

Don't need to cover the details of the trip itself, but the circumstances that led you to ride it and the aftermath.

 

 

P.S., Dave:  Just noticed that the Trolley Talk articles on the Liberty Bell last run continue onto another page, so it's Issue 283, SEP-OCT 2006, pgs.12-14.

[daveklepper]

you probably know that two Crandic cars were saved, one ex-C&LE, like all but 1030 of the Liberty Bells, at Branford, painted for C&LE, and the other ex-Indiana car at Union, restored as an Indiana car.

[LehighLad]

daveklepper

you probably know that two Crandic cars were saved, one ex-C&LE, like all but 1030 of the Liberty Bells, at Branford, painted for C&LE, and the other ex-Indiana car at Union, restored as an Indiana car.

 

Actually, four Crandic ex-C&LE cars were saved: #111 at Western Railway Museum in California (www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eX46F6-M08), #116 at Shore Line Trolley Museum in East Haven Connecticutt, #118 at Seashore Trolley Museum in Kennebunkport Maine, and #119 (restored to C&LE livery, but now tarped) in Ohio Railway Museum just outside Columbus.  I've seen all of these but #111, and that vicariously via the link.  The Crandic ex-IRR car #65 (http://cerablog.com/2013/03/26/a-tale-of-two-high-speeds/) is the one you're referring to in Union Illinois, restored to IRR livery (have seen it only briefly once) and including the MU couplers.  I have a note that #110 and/or #117 may be at Electric City Trolley Museum in Scranton Pennsylvania, though my note also says "not displayed". so I don't know the full story there.  Never saw anything such on the few times I was up there.

[narig01]

The 111 at Rio Vista is a very fast runner. When the car first arrived as a safety measure the field taps were cut out. Many years ago I ran the car there (pre restoration) . At the time part of the roof was missing. The line was it had a Rio Vista dome! The car could accelerate very quickly and at the time it was the fastest car on the property.(don't ask) We can thank Ken Frye for the car and its eventual transfer to the museum. Originally Mr Frye wanted to set up a restaurant using the car to ferry diners from a parking lot to the restaurant. What was interesting was Mr Frye's name was written in chalk on the side of the car next to the door and at various times his military rank as he progressed from 1st Lt to Capt to Major to Lt Col (I think) . Thx IGN

[daveklepper]

back to Sacramento Northern.  Although regular interurban passenger service was discontiniued in early 1941, local streetcar service in Sacramento continued until sold to National City Lines in 1944.  NCL also bought Pacific Gas and Electric's streetcar lines, and Central California Traction's one line.  NCL operated the conbination as one system, including combining the SN and CCT lines into one.  And rapidly converted everything to bus after WWII.  Marysville-Uba City local service lasted until the end of 1945 or early 1946.  Chico local service was actually extended north to the Air Force Base during WWII, and was the last five cent streetcar line in North America when discontinued in 1948 or 1949, with Birneys. For overhall the Chico and Marysville-Uba City local cars had to be equipped with temporary 3rd rail shoes, the only instance I know of where Birneys had such.

[LehighLad]

daveklepper

Don't need to cover the details of the trip itself, but the circumstances that led you to ride it and the aftermath.

 

Dave:  Here's more I just found on the Liberty Bell Limited last run:

http://articles.mcall.com/1986-09-07/news/2535450_1_trolley-buffs-liberty-bell-s-8th-clanging-bells

Gives more detail on how some fans thought an early evening trip would be the last run.  

One thing I didn't include in my narrative here was that on the return trip the semaphore encountered at Lehigh Siding (2nd last northbound signal before Allentown) was horizontal and the light was out, thus not red as it should have been for that position, so we stopped, thus losing the momentum that would have been helpful for climbing South Mountain.  Fred Enters had to call the dispatcher and learned that the signal power had been turned off prematurely, so got verbal clearance (or maybe had to write a train order, but I doubt it under the circumstances) to come in for the final entrance to Allentown, near 3AM on Friday September 7th 1951.

[LehighLad]

daveklepper

Don't need to cover the details of the trip itself, but the circumstances that led you to ride it and the aftermath.

 

Dave: In this clip I found today,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlr6Gwii4rc

around the one-minute mark, the Liberty Bell Line track, about 100 yards from my house in South Allentown, is being torn up on Friday September 7th, 1951.

I witnessed this very scene after coming home from high school in the afternoon (by bus, since I had ridden the local trolley home the day before) so must have been present but out of view.  Hadn't realized before that there was film of it, so don't know who the photgrapher was.  A sad scene then, and now a poignant memory, over 63 years later.

 

 

[trackrat888]

South Shore pays into railroad retirement and is condisdered a Class 2 by the Railroad Retirement Board. SEPTA Norristown Line aka Norristown High Speed Line AKA Liberty Line is covered by Agalamated Transit Union and thus only eligible for Pension and Social Security. I guess it would have to be based on what the Federal Railroad Retirement Board considers a Bona-Fide railroad. Denver may regreat its Fast-Tracks Commuter Rail program for this very reason of having higher labor costs for what could have been a Subway Line to the Airport.