Move the bus terminals to New Jersey

[daveklepper]

If that is easier to do, by all means.   But consider this:

The "L" is almost a mile closer to the Hudson River, is pointed in the right direction, involving less demolition of buidings (perhaps none, just tearing up 14th Street from between 8th and 9th Aves to 12th), is already constructed under all the north-south subways it crosses, and  uses full-width cars and thus can have more people seated and a far greater capacity per train than a PATH train (almost double), and has the capacity to easily handle the extra patronage.  I would expect the number of passengers coming from NJ to outnumber those from Brooklyn, with a 2-minute headway during rush hours, and every other train using the pocket track east of Myrtle Avenue to reverse there, or perhaps one out of three, another one out of three short turning at Atlantic Avenue. with Janius, E55th, and Canarsie-Rockaway Ave getting 6 minute service.

I am unsure at this point, memory-wise, whether the "L" ever had platforms extended from 500 to 620 feet for 10-car trains, instead of eight (seven of the original BMT "steels" or two Multi's or D-types.).  If not done already, might be done at the same time.

The big problem with building PATH west (or east, to GCT, as originally envisioned) is going underneath existing subways.  And the curve at Herald Square would be mighty difficult because oof existing subways, station facilities, and buildings.

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[henry6]

Why not keep it in the family?  If the Port Authority were to build a new bus terminal anywhere they should extend the PATH train to it.  In NJ it could be an extension from 33rd St then loop down the Meadows to Journal Sq. area and/or maybe use one of the abandoned rights of way into Newark and the Oranges.  PATH already has cross Hudson privileges and charters and rights, etc. so there would be no state infringements, et. al, as would accompany New York State's MTA invading NJ.  Utilizing PATH"s existence could probably cut 10 years and 100's of billions of dollars from the project while opening up NYC to more people.  

[daveklepper]

Rather than repair and expand the now decrepit Port Authority 8th Avenue and 41st St. Bus Terminal and the one in Washington Heights, both should be moved to New Jersey.   Not the "7",, but the "L", the 14th Street Canarsie Line, should be extended to Sacaucus Station on the NEC with a stop at a new large efficient bus terminal to replace the one on 8th Avenue.  The "A" should cross the GW Bridge to a new terminal replacing the one in Washington Heights, with the C taking over the 207th Street service.

\The followingg email message prompts this recommendation:

 In late 1950 the Port Authority opened the bus terminal to the public for inspection prior to its opening.  My father and I went there and viewed what appeared to be a magnificent facility.  The terminal was constructed west of Eighth Avenue as the numerous commuter motor coach operations were concentrated between Seventh Avenues and construction of the terminal would have left them no place to load, unload and stage their vehicles (in fact the last of these operations closed about 1980).  In addition the New York Herald Tribune newspaper had its offices and printing plant in the more ideal location mid block between Seventh and Eighth Avenues, and 40th and 41st streets.  The long distance motor coach services, except Greyhound, as well as some suburban service used the bus terminal in the basement of the Hotel Dixie.

     When the Bus Terminal opened the carriers slowly moved their operations into the building, and the passengers had both bad and good things to say about it.  They were very satisfied with available services: an upscale super market, Whelan drug store, a bank, news stands, a book store, and several food stores to slack their thirst and appetite.  The Eighth Avenue IND subway was convenient for downtown travel, but uptown as well as the IRT and BMT were inconvenient. The Port Authority from the start had difficulty controlling the influx of homeless people who moved in and begged the passengers to give them money.  In addition long distance service from the southern states brought whole families into the terminal with no idea of where to go to live, so they began to settle on the lower and street level.

     As Manhattan neighborhoods that housed middle income families were converted to business areas the residents moved out of the City.  A large number moved to New Jersey resulting in an increase in commuters. 

     In 1962 I was employed after school by B. Arbital & Company in the McGraw Hill building at 330 West 42nd Street.  Among my duties was to get a late lunch for Mr. Arbital.  At the time of employment there as a Whelan's Drug Store with full food service on the west side of the lobby, McGraw Hill's publication sales between the elevators on the south side, and a bank (I do not recall its name) on the east side. Several month after my employment began McGraw Hill decided to expand its publication sales and they moved into Whelan's space and Whelan expanded its operations in the bus terminal.  The bank also moved to street level in the terminal, and was replaced with a dress store whose clothing met McGraw Hill's standards of dress or female employees.  Though the main entrance to the building is on 42nd Street there was a supplementary entrance on 41st Street.  This entrance was opposite an entrance to the Terminal and was used heavily.

     I used the Terminal to travel to and from locations where I could not get to by car, train or airline.  In 1968 when Diana and I moved to Hasbrouck Heights most of my trips to and from work where through the terminal.  By that time an additional suburban bus deck and three new parking decks had been added.  Later an annex was constructed on the west side of Eighth Avenue between 41st and 42nd Streets.  Operations after 10:00 PM where consolidated to the upper level of the Annex, but there where numerous problems getting the vehicles to the gates to meet schedules, and no or little cooperation from the operating companies and New Jersey Transit.  Security and customer service by both the operating companies and the Port Authority kept deteriorating as more bums moved in to keep warm in winter and cool in summer. 

       In 2004 we relocated to Florida, and I have not used the terminal since.  Based upon what the past half century of operation was like conditions have deteriorated more.  In addition the amount of travel by motor coach has increased as the rail service to areas not served by Amtrak and New Jersey Transit now needs road vehicles.  The suburban area serving Manhattan has moved west into the Pocono Mountains, South into Central New Jersey and north along the Hudson River beyond Mid Hudson.