PJ line itself held up well under Sandy...most of the brunt was in NJ...MNRR saw fit to move trains to the line at Ottisville and Campbell Hall..which included NJT locomotives...so equipment was safe, some 40 trees were down along the line but infrastructure stood up...
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Henry guess it comes from making assumptions not based in fact. though PJ line problems came from ROW issues in NJ and Hoboken problems.
BTW -- how well did MN's rebuilding of PJ line hold up after "SANDY'? the damage from Irene was severe ? from what i have read 'sandy's damage was minimual ? That would indicate that the civil engineering of the rebuilding was very sound.
Too bad PJ commuters cannot sue NJT for not being good stewarts of the MNRR equipment ?
Bluestreak...where have you been. We've been talking about this and giving examples since Sandy. MNRR locomotives were moved to M&E at Morristown the following Sunday. NJT has been silent about what happened to what, where, and to what extent on some equipment and lines. NJT's silence has led to a lot of speculation and anecdotal information which we've pieced together here and elsewhere and has told this story again and again. However, this story is the first public confirmation of exact damages to MNRR equipment; it does not go so far as to explain directly, but does explain, why Port Jervis and Pascack Valley Line services are designated "modified". There are fewer trains and more spread out schedules because of this equipment being out of service. It also indirectly explains why NJT diesel services west of Dover are fewer since they have had to use NJT equipment on the PVL and Port Jervis lines though they haven't said that directly.
This misjudgment and call on moving equipment coupled with lack of public explanations is what has NJT management on the carpet in Washington, Trenton, and now, finally, in the media!.
Now we find out that NY commuters are suffering because NJT left NY equipment in harms way.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/185628682_N_Y__trains_hit_at_NJ_Transit_flooded_yard.html
over $1.7M in damage but more importantly where is replacement equipment ?
To everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under the heaven.
--Ecclesiastes 3:1.
"There is a time for everything. There is even a time for change. And that is when change can no longer be avoided!"
HRH the Duke of Cambridge, 1880
henry6Everything runs its course and we have to retool and readjust...
Didn't someone say that change is the only constant.
Coal is not dead. LP and natural gas are shipped by rail and have been for decades. Nothing is new, just the willingness of investors to take the risks. And do it without asking the rest of us and our governments to cover the risks if they fail. No. There is a lull in coal shipments and use; it may come back albeit less intensive than what we knew. Yes. Gas is the fuel of choice for power plants, but this too, is perhaps has a limited live span. Everything runs its course and we have to retool and readjust...
PS. Perhaps we could revive the coal business in the US. Here is one possibility:
http://www.vogelzang.com/browse.cfm/railroad-potbelly-stove/4,19.html
(I know it is not an authentic replica of a railroad stove but only, as the description says, "reminiscent" of one).
henry6I find the writer's comments about coal more revealing than about flood damage control.
The writers main point about coal is that today natural gas has priced it out of the market and the price advantage seems to be continuing for the foreseeable future. Therefore new plants are being built for natural gas and would be even if there were no regulation of coal.
Fred Frailly discussed this issue recently. I wonder if it is impossible to ship compressed natural gas by rail. Certainly there are places it is used beyond the reach of pipelines.
From what I have read almost all of the coal used in the US today is low sulphur lignite coal which also has a low heat value compared to other coal. However, its low sulphur content makes it valuable.
But I have also read that both bituminous and anthracite coal are shipped overseas and must be carried from the mine to the port. The editorial did not comment on that issue.
blue streak 1 railway age has aguest editorial today about hardening infrastructure. take a look. also attached is short editorial about coal. http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/guest-editorial-flood-proofing-and-coals-future.html?channel=41
railway age has aguest editorial today about hardening infrastructure. take a look. also attached is short editorial about coal.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/guest-editorial-flood-proofing-and-coals-future.html?channel=41
I find the writer's comments about coal more revealing than about flood damage control. His take is more like mine, that government regulations and environmental concerns have less to do with the demise of coal than its expense in keeping things clean and the elder state of the power generating stations.
I don't have any more to say on this subject, but I am amazed at the interest it's gotten. 327 comments! Amazing!
blue streak 1railway age has aguest editorial today about hardening infrastructure.
It's an ill wind that blows no one no good. The editorial points out there is a new willingness to build projects with flood protection. Only a short time ago the cost of that protection was being questioned. We are all better off for the change of attitude.
I certainly hope the New Year will be Happy and more enlightened and progressive than the past year at least....so yes indeed, HAPPY NEW YEAR ONE AND ALL!
henry6No its not. I've been involved in media, public relations and advertising for over 50 years and the best way to deal with something is to get ahead of it before it gets your head. NJT's silence was not open and up front and give every one a chance to skewer them.
Given the fact that NJT did not use the best way or even a pretty good way to protect its own equipment is it surprising that its PR efforts would also fall short?
In any even Happy New Year to you and anyone else who reads this.
No its not. I've been involved in media, public relations and advertising for over 50 years and the best way to deal with something is to get ahead of it before it gets your head. NJT's silence was not open and up front and give every one a chance to skewer them.
Pardon me gentlemen for my lapse of good manners...Happy New Year to you and yours!
How could I have forgotten?
henry6One lapse of judgement that was as catastrophic as this cannot be overlooked because of other history but has to be examined so that this or any other management doesn't make the same mistake again and does make plans now to avert any repeat results.
I think NJT's silence after Sandy is understandable. When they realized what a bad decision they had made they were embarrassed to talk about it.
I'm not sure what you meant by "digression'...but I did read the Trains article and forgot what I saw there earlier. So you've pointed it out: "3 Long Beach diesel shuttles" while cat is being repaired actually is referring to the LIRR's Long Beach branch which is third rail not overhead wire. Ah but we digress...back to the blame game...
Time out from the blame game.
Feb TRAINS arrived. On pg7, the Sandy's impact map says number 3: diesel shuttles...until catenary could be repaired.
end of digression....Happy An(y)o Nuevo
one more ride, pioneers, way out there.
.
Something is foul. NJT does usually preform quite well. No matter what they did wrong misjudging the threat of Sandy they have misbehave by not communicating fully and openly with the public. I've been saying right from the beginning their silence was condemning their actions, right or wrong, casting a spell of suspicion upon them. The silence cast doubt on their actions, their abilities, their grasp of the situation, whether or not they actually knew what hit them, where and how? We still have not had an official accounting of exactly what happened and why...we've had bits and pieces fed to us via several non official sources. What we have heard....not reading a storm report from a year ago, not heeding storm warnings based on that report...does not sound like good judgement was used but rather they decided that since it never happened before, it wasn't going to happen this time. Another report, or accusation maybe, was that they were afraid of spending money on labor for overtime to move equipment and make the property safe and secure. We just don't know because they've not said. So we speculate and listen to many reports and comments from employees in the ranks and commuters and riders left in the lurch. One lapse of judgement that was as catastrophic as this cannot be overlooked because of other history but has to be examined so that this or any other management doesn't make the same mistake again and does make plans now to avert any repeat results.
Firelock76 The "Sandy Silence" makes me wonder.
It does seem to me that there is a mitigating factor here. Other than Sandy, Executive Director Jerome Weinstein and the rest of the directors have a history of good to excellent operation of NJT. Granted, this one lapse of judgement was catastrophic, but it appears that it is accepted because of the other history.
Frankly, I don't see things to wonder about and I wonder what you are wondering about.
Improper connections? Probably not. No connections at all, I kind of doubt it. The "Sandy Silence" makes me wonder.
Firelock76I suspect there's politics involved. More than that I won't say as this isn't a political forum. But I DO have my own opinion on this. Refer back to my "looking out for each other" comment.
We live in a political society and often there are politics involved when we don't know it. And the people involved don't want us to know. You may well be correct.
However, I have not seen or heard even a scintilla of a suspicion of any improper connection involving NJT, the New Jersey Legislature or NJARP. Or any other political entity.
John WR PS. I looked at the New Jersey Association of Railroad Passengers' website to see if they have commented about NJT during Sandy. They have not.
PS. I looked at the New Jersey Association of Railroad Passengers' website to see if they have commented about NJT during Sandy. They have not.
As far as the NJAofRP not commenting, and the lack of state leaders critisism, I suspect there's politics involved. More than that I won't say as this isn't a political forum. But I DO have my own opinion on this. Refer back to my "looking out for each other" comment.
Firelock76Well, they WERE warned, and by various entities.
You are absolutely right. NJT directors were warned and the warnings were given by acknowledged experts in the field of weather forecasting and the directors substituted their own judgement for expert judgement with disasterous results. That was colossally poor judgement. I agree that there should be some accountability.
Frankly, I don't know why elected officials are not critical. In north Jersey both The Star-Ledger and The Record have been critical but despite all of the inconvenience there has been no public outcry.
I looked at your Railspace link. As you say, they are not "giving it away." That is fair enough and I would not criticize their right to offer their own information on their own terms. However, if you hope to influence public policy it is helpful to speak with a public voice.
Well, they WERE warned, and by various entities. No one else, Metro-North, the NY subways, or the LIRR had any equipment damaged, they moved the locomotives and cars as far away from the water as they could. In fact, the only Metro-North locomotives damaged were those in the care of NJ Transit.
As far as no state officials voicing displeasure with NJ Transit's management, well what can we say? Those in power tend to look out for each other, unless one persons foul-up is going to bring them all down.
As far as "Railpace" magazine availability, try www.railpace.com, scroll down the site and they have a directory where you can find it. A pretty good site too, but a bit abridged from the magazine. Very wise, they're not "gving it away", so to speak.
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