MNRR Hudson line GCT to Croton-Harmon open tomorrow (Fri.)
http://alert.mta.info/sites/default/files/pdf/HUDSON%2011_02-2.pdf
Also NH line GCT to New Haven on Fri
http://alert.mta.info/sites/default/files/pdf/NEWHAVEN%2011_02%281%29.pdf
As of this time...MNRR's web page says no Hudson Line service and New Haven line only to Stamford...but things are happening quickly and quietly so let's see what the sunrise brings us...
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My previous post is from a MTA/MNRR web page for service tomorrow (Fri.)
Amtrak also plans limited DC-Boston thru service starting tomorrow (Fri) according to Amtrak bulletin cited in a Trains "Passenger" thread.
Metro North is operating Croton-Harmon - GCT today and New Haven - GCT today,.still no service to New Canaan, Danbury, and Waterbury. NY subway has added Archer Avenue connection to Queens Blv, so LIRR passengers can access the subway at Jamaica, plus No. 7 service from Flushing to the transfer point with the Queens Blv line but not into Manhattan yet.
NJT is operating the NEC service and some North Jersey Coast service, in addition to the River Line. PATH is operating normally.
FYI MTA posted this map for subway service:
http://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/pdf/SubwayRecoveryMap.pdf
It looks like the 59th St and 63rd St tunnels are back in service.
Rgds IGN
This morning's MTA/MNRR/LIRR website shows great improvements....Croton-Harmon to GCT on the MNRR Hudson Line, Southeast to GCT on the Harlem, and New Haven to GCT on the New Haven with Poughkeepsie, Wassaic, and CT branches still out of service. LIRR is holding to Huntington, Ronkonkoma, Babylon and Great Neck to Penn Sta. with branches otherwise out of service. City subways have added some routes with 7 Train service in Queens only, the M train working Herald Sq to Archer Ave, Jamaica in place of E train service. Still no service below 34 St on any line and no service from Brooklyn as lower Manhatten is still either underwater or being dried out and inspected. Word was that the 59th and 89th St. tunnels were opened earlier this morning but not reflected yet on the service notices.
Amtrak is touting Boston-D.C. Acela service along with other Northeast Regional services through NYP. NJT opened NYP from Trenton while other lines were resuspended because of generator/computer problems for NJCL, and Raritan Valley. While there was no notice of service returning to Hoboken Division lines, there was an indication that the Bergen line may have attempted service until the generator problem developed. NJT is still quite tight lipped about their problems and predicaments. Some, probably wisely not raising hopes, but otherwise their silence is raising questions. Still not acknowledged is the CNN report of 65 locomotives and 257 cars that were caught underwater in different locations. What is also surprising is that no news organization, no reporter, nobody, has pressured NJT for answers to slowness of service returns and the lack of communications about the real problems; so far the press is accepting "lack of electric power, washouts, and trees down" as the sole explanation without finding out where and how bad. Where is NJT's equipment? What are the line by line problems in severity and number? No body is asking.
On another note, kind of addressing a comment I made last night, Amtrak President Joe Boardman has asked VIA Canada for help equipping NY Empire State trains with an eye toward using Amtrak equipment in the midstates available to NJT for commuter services...is this a request from NJT? Does it reveal and address the NJT car and locomotive problem? NJT is due for a complete admission and report of their problems, situation, and search or plan for solutions.
henry6 Still not acknowledged is the CNN report of 65 locomotives and 257 cars that were caught underwater in different locations. What is also surprising is that no news organization, no reporter, nobody, has pressured NJT for answers to slowness of service returns and the lack of communications about the real problems; so far the press is accepting "lack of electric power, washouts, and trees down" as the sole explanation without finding out where and how bad. Where is NJT's equipment? What are the line by line problems in severity and number? No body is asking. On another note, kind of addressing a comment I made last night, Amtrak President Joe Boardman has asked VIA Canada for help equipping NY Empire State trains with an eye toward using Amtrak equipment in the midstates available to NJT for commuter services...is this a request from NJT? Does it reveal and address the NJT car and locomotive problem? NJT is due for a complete admission and report of their problems, situation, and search or plan for solutions.
Still not acknowledged is the CNN report of 65 locomotives and 257 cars that were caught underwater in different locations. What is also surprising is that no news organization, no reporter, nobody, has pressured NJT for answers to slowness of service returns and the lack of communications about the real problems; so far the press is accepting "lack of electric power, washouts, and trees down" as the sole explanation without finding out where and how bad. Where is NJT's equipment? What are the line by line problems in severity and number? No body is asking.
Henry; these are great questions. The problem probably is that no one has asked the governor what the situation is. Reporters are probably too busy with the missery of residents to follow thru on this problem. Our rail reporters need to question this. If NJ residents find out that commuting for a long time is going to be difficult then the manure will hit the fan. The silence from NJ TRANSIT does seem to be telling ?
Streak,
I'm willing to give both Amtrak and NJT a little time before they give a full report of the extent of the damage and what they have done about it.
Both have been prompt in reporting restorations of service and giving temporary scheduling information. I'm sure both agencies are up to their eyeballs in work trying to get service restored.
Ultimately there were be reports of everything that was or was not done. I'm sure there will be plenty of Monday morning quarterbacks expressing opinions on both sides of the issues and some of them will be right. But I can wait for that.
Meanwhile I'm busy in my own yard. The damage is not sever. A couple of tree limbs I have handled with help from my son and some serious leaf raking my son is also helping with. It could be worse. A lot worse. But it still needs doing and with snow possible on Tuesday it would be good to get it done and over with. I hope your problems are no more serious than my own.
blue streak 1The silence from NJ TRANSIT does seem to be telling ?
Sadly, telling. There was an inteview on NPR with a NJT spokesman where he was asked repeated what the details were - even in broad terms. All she could get out of him was hyperbole. Nothing specific about which lines, equipment....nothing.
Then there was the interesting NJT Flickr slide show that's made the rounds. Lots of shots of boats on bridges on the North Jersey Coast Line and a washout or two and a few of flooding at MMC, but not much more.
A very peculiar lack of info, status updates, estimate....I'd grade NJT D- on communication.
By contrast, Amtrak has been all over Twitter and elsewhere with status updates, forecasts and other info. I'd grade Amtrak with an A. (I'll give them another A for effort getting things rolling again.)
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
JohnWR...the problem is that NJT has always been forthcomeing and accurate with information, candid, too. This is not their usual performance which leads to suspicion and more questions. I've had conversations with railroaders and they indicated other railroads, etc. are upset and wondering what is going on at NJT. The NJT Website is the same at this hour as it was before 9 this morning with no insight as to what his happening or what might be happening....They never announced Main LIne or Port Jervis service nor NJCL service but indicated that they would not run those lines because their back up power failed and they couldn't operate.
My mind is whirring about what might be, what must be, going on inside NJT as nothing is unwinding, nothing is being reported, nothing laid out, nothing at all.
On another note...here we have a situation whereby the computer system, etc. is inoperable, the whole operating program is nil. If there were the old system of timetable and train order, coupled with cell phone and radio communications, could they, where tracks were clear or catenary didn't matter, could they operated instead of being bedded down in bits and bytes of computerese, where a person, a dispatcher person, could actually with train sheets to filled in by hand and train orders delivered by word of mouth to be written (in emergency situations) by hand by crews, operators (probably conductors) placed at key block locations (even blocks created by train order) so that trains could run? Are we so tied to computers that we don't know how to "railroad"?
henry6 Are we so tied to computers that we don't know how to "railroad"?
Are we so tied to computers that we don't know how to "railroad"?
In a short term, single word - YES
There are no fall back mechanisms in place to operate CADS dispatched railroads without CADS. Todays CADS systems do not have paper train sheets or any operating rules in place to support such a form of railroading. Today's Dispatchers, except for the rare oldtimer, have no conception of how to operate a 'Time Table & Train Orders' form of opeation.
When CSX decentralized their Jacksonville Operations Center, each dispatching office was provided with a computer that can operate the full system.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I agree, Henry. NJT"s performance has not always been what I want it to be either. However, this is a storm than which none have been worse in the history of east coast railroading. I am willing to cut them some slack.
As to dependency on computers we no longer know how to railroad. It isn't just railroading, Henry, it is the whole society. On the one hand, intelligence technology has led to great increases in productivity. On the other hand certain kinds of knowledge which used to be second nature to all of us are just dying out. For example, in high school I was taught to estimate. Given a problem such as 1722 divided by 37 I instinctively divide 1600 by 40 to get 40 and then work the answer. This means I do not make a mistake on the order of a factor of 10 or 100. I find young people today just don't do that; they punch the numbers into a calculator and leave it at that. But it a decimal point is misplaced there can be a big problem.
Why make a telephone call or two when you can send an e mail and forget it? Why write it out in pen and ink and then give it or mail it when you can just type it on a screen and press "send?" When even bother to read a paper timetable when you can just type in your origin and destination and the time you need to get there and be told your train time? That's where the society is today, Henry. It is not with old guys like you and me who plod along on the time tested path; young people zip by and leave us in the dust. We're luck they put up with us.
For all of that new technology offers so much so fast I think we push it too hard. When it crashes (as it just did) it can leave a lot of problems, the least of which is that people in charge don't really understand what has happened much less what they need to do to correct it. But that is the way it is.
It seems to me that was the way it was back when Jay Gould ran the Erie. The more it changes the more it is the same.
actually John, I have often been impressed with NJT's handling of situations, especially communications about problems of right of way and equipment. You can't say they've been evasive because no one has asked them a question. This is not NJT we know and expected. They have been silent, saying nothing about what is wrong, what is happening, aside from the broad brush of no electricity, washouts, and downed trees." and a couple handsful of pictures of boats on washed out tracks and bridges. This is not NJT. Tonight they've posted "updated" information which is the same thing that has been posted since 9 this morning and have not added any new or revealing explanations. From a professional media person, having worked both the public relations/advertising/marketing side and the news gathering/reporting side, my professional conclusion is that there are real problems inside NJT at the moment, that they are either hiding something they don't want us to know or that they are in a disarray.
As for computer vs. man operations...I am fully aware of businesses who cannot operate without computers where people used to get it all done before. Try asking a sweet young thing at a computer for your insurance company to turn the damned thing off and talk to you and answer your questions: they can't. Radio stations with no studios to broadcast direct to air but only rooms where you record voice into programs which you eventually connect to some other digital box somewhere which will insert your voice comment, news item, or commercial in the next cycle! But as was suggested elsewhere here, there are no old time railroaders in a position of importance who could implement a non computerized operation with a cell phone and a piece of paper and a knowledge of what his railroad is. That's the shame of today''s America: railroads, broadcasting, and even adding up your total for a Big Mac, double fries, and large coke!
With the re-establishment of Hudson Line service from Croton-Harmon to Poughkeepsie, Metro-North will resume operating regular train service on the Hudson, Harlem and New Haven Lines starting tomorrow (Saturday, November 3):
On the Hudson Line, regularly scheduled service will be restored between Poughkeepsie and Croton-Harmon/Grand Central Terminal. See a Hudson Line Timetable or Metro-North TripPlanner (Schedules) for details.
On the Harlem Line, regularly scheduled service continues between Southeast and Grand Central Terminal.
See a Harlem Line Timetable or Metro-North TripPlanner (Schedules) for details.
On the New Haven Line, regularly scheduled service continues between New Haven/Stamford and Grand Central Terminal.
See a New Haven Line Timetable or Metro-North TripPlanner (Schedules) for details.
Wassaic Branch service on the Harlem Line and New Canaan, Danbury & Waterbury Branch service on the New Haven Line remains suspended until further notice.
West-of-Hudson service remains suspended until further notice as NJ Transit continues recovery efforts.
Pascack Valley Line Customers: Transport of Rockland will provide additional TAPPAN ZEExpress bus service from the Palisades Center Mall park & ride lot to Tarrytown Station. See www.rocklandbus.com for schedule information.
Monthly and weekly tickets from Spring Valley, Nanuet and Pearl River stations will be honored on Hudson Line trains from/to Tarrytown Station.
Port Jervis Line Customers: Monthly and weekly tickets will be honored on Upper Hudson Line trains.
Customers should expect some delays. Continue to check www.mta.info, listen to news media reports, and listen for announcements at stations and onboard trains.
F
I just read that, too, Blue Streak. Probably the West Side line is in trouble...but the Amtrak/CSX transfer concept didn't dawn on me.....but there could be problems between Poughkeepsie and Albany, too. Plus, train sets could be locked in NYP or Sunnyside...no one has said anything about Sunnyside yet.
Based on pictures of Spuyten Duyvil Bridge, I could see where a 13' salt water surge could do damage to the workings of the swing bridge. Perhaps it's stuck in the open position. I imagine the 3rd rail shoes on the Amtrak dual power units are just made to work with the over-running 3rd rail in Penn Station, so they might not work on GCT's under-running 3rd rail.
henry6 but there could be problems between Poughkeepsie and Albany, too.
but there could be problems between Poughkeepsie and Albany, too.
afer I wrote the last post I seem to recall that almost all the Poughkeepsie - Albany route is still code line. Is that correct ?
maybe mudchicken can give us an idea of what state of repair at transfer date a lease requires?. Is it standard or is each one different ? If I was leasing I would expet the property to be mostly identical to the condition at inspection. any change after inspection would be required to be made whole ??
One of the reasons for the Amtrak lease of the Hudson River Line was to move up the signal replacement schedule. Anyone who rode this line under Penn Central in the early 1970s remembers the long crawl through sections where the signal system would go down for a period of time.
I'm guessing that Amtrak and MNRC are giving MN the weekend to fix or replace switch machines, signal relays and other fun electrical pieces, not to mention let the roadbed settle where it had to be filled in.
Amtrak 700 series are quite capable of running on GCT third rail. A year or so ago they did just that during the work on the Spuyten Duyvil bridge. The shoes are adjustable and retractable.
Considering that Amtrak has been pretty open about what it's doing, and that we've heard nothing about the West Side line being an issue, I'm guessing it's operable, though the entrance to Penn may be a mess due to work on cleaning up the LIRR West Side connection. Amtrak's service bulletin references "repairs by other track owners". It may be that CSX deferred, since it took a fair amount of damage to freight facilities, and it wasn't clear when MN was going to reopen. Starting tomorrow, Amtrak takes over maintenance responsibility, so a Monday reopening seems plausible. MN is probably running on a reduced number of mainline tracks so they can keep working on remaining damage.
As for NJT, while NORAC rules allow for Form D (radio train order) operation, many if not most of the switches in NJT interlockings are not equipped for manual operation - so even the use of diesel powered trains may be nearly impossible. Even under Form D operation with manual switch control, NORAC rules would require an absolute stop and dispatcher permission to proceed at an interlocking.
LIRR's West Side yard should not interfere with Amtrak as it is north and west of the station platforms..other owners can only mean MNRR at Spuyten Devil....MNRR owns from Poughkeepsie to Spuyten Devil and to GCT with CSX and Amtrak as tenants. .
As far as Form D NORAC rules...I am surprised that any switch outside of complexes like Hoboken, etc., isn't capable of being manually operated. And when it comes to operating or not operating, a stop to walk across a highway crossing or to throw and close a switch shouldn't be an issue.
But still the main issue is the lack of communication and disclosure by NJT so far...even this morning's website is the same reformatted information from yesterday morning as was posted last night.
Across the Hudson, more subway lines are opening, the LIRR is running to Port Washington in addition to hourly services between Huntington, Ronkonkoma, and Babylon. MNRR is regular schedules from Poughkeepsie, Southeast, and New Haven. And Amtrak is almost normal for Corridor Boston to D.C. while not operating to Albany.
The Spuyten Duyvil Movable Bridge is Amtrak's. MN owns from CP12 (Hudson Line 10.8) south to the Division Post (Hudson Line 10.7). Of course it's possible the interlocking at CP12 was damaged.
2 round trips albany - NYP today saturday
Amtrak is still cautious and appears to be scheduling/operating on a train by train basis...they are looking at CP, CSX and MNRR operations and conditions along with their own. They say to check late Saturday for Sunday's service. This, probably because it depends on crew and equipment locations and availability as well as operating conditions on MNRR, CSX west of Albany and CP north of Albany.
MTA's subways keep opening and moving futher with Lexington Ave. Manhattan running the length of the railroad and even the 7 train coming into 42nd St. MNRR is operating the Harlem line from Wassaic but others still restricted to the main in CT as New Cannan branch needs extensive recatting so there will be bustitution there. MTA story keeps unfolding by the minute as they are working to be in full business ASAP.
All still silent on the Western Front...NJT still has yesterday's 9am service notice posted with no further explanations.
Henry,
I can say that NJT has been asked directly what their status is, including referencing the reports of 65 locomotives and 257 railcars flooded and the media has received the same silence that everyone else has. Now come reports that Amtrak is looking at trying to get equipment from Via to cascade Amfleets to NJT and the only logical conclusion that can be arrived at, is that NJT lost a lot of equipment to flooding and doesn't want to admit to it. It would be helpful if they would just say that instead of saying nothing and letting speculation run rampant. My personal theory is that they didn't dead head equipment out of places like Atlantic City and Bay Head and got swamped at the MMC, resulting in catastrophic losses of rolling stock.
Yes, UPREADING85, this is what I've been reading and passing on right along. NJT pics show cars and locomotives in Bay Head and Hoboken but nowhere else nor have they said. The Middletown NY paper posted pics of a train at Otisville and there were reports that several trains were there and at Campbell Hall but did not indicate if they were from Port Jervis or Suffern. What was left in Hoboken, the Meadows, Summit, Gladstone, Great Notch, Dover, Port Morris, Suffern, Waldwick, or Spring Valley? We don't know and even the fans aren't chiming in on this. As for Joe Boardman and Amtrak, was he asked by NJT or is he acting on his own knowing the situation and his ability to help? The less NJT says, the more suspicious and scary things become. And it stretches from off the railhead to higher grounds, too.
I understand that someone probably doesn't want to admit to a mistake in the hundreds of millions of dollars, but I have heard they have approached other railroads coast to coast about equipment, but I can't write any of it up because NJT will say nothing officially on the subject. They probably have at least one set in Philadelphia for restarting Atlantic City Service and the sets they put in the hills, and some sets at the yard in Morrisville, but what happens when thaty equipment comes up for their 92-day inspections? Will FRA be lenient and let it go because of their fleet issues? I've heard some of this VIA equipment might not be up to US standard, which could be another issue. Makes one wonder if there are any RDC's still around or old SEPTA Silverliners that haven't been scraped yet they could use? It could be weeks or months before NJT operates again if the numbers of equipment lost that are heard are true. But it's not as like folks haven't aksed NJT, they just haven't talked to anyone about their situation. There is one shot in their slide show, taken after water had clearly receeded that shows water in the MMC and at least one set of Jersey Arrows and Double-Deckers in the car shop when it flooded.
Well...they closed down Sunday night, not Monday. I assumed with all that time they would have moved as much as possible, if not everything movable, to higher ground. All diesel powered stuff to west of Harriman on the Main/Bergen lines, perhaps Woodbine on the PV. Anything from Raritan and NJCL could have gone up to Port Morris and if it didn't fit there, there are two tracks from Dover to Port Morris so with them not running trains, they could just park on probably track 1 between Dover and Lake Hopactcong station. Electric stuff could have gone to Dover, and again, with no service, track one could be used for parking where necessary but Summit yard and Gladstone Yards could be used. Great Notch, its high enough too, took take in borders. But NJT's problems are what they did, what they didn't, and not talking. I am sure there are conversations and pleas going out but no media person has apparently raised questions and reported back even that there was no comment.
MNRR meanwhile is opening all the way to Wassaic, Danbury, and Waterbury on Monday in addition to the already opened Hudson Line to Poughkeepsie and to New Haven on the NHLINES. Bus to New Caanan as earlier reported. LIRR holding with Huntington, Ronkonkoma, Babylon and Port Washington services for now but may get to Far Rockaway by Monday. No word to Oyster Bay, Port Jefferson, Greenport, Patchouge-Speonk-Montauk services.
I suspect the amount of timber that needs clearing from the rights of way of all the carriers in the affected areas would support several decades of the show 'Ax Men'. Carriers these days do not have the army of MofW personnel that they had 40 or 50 years ago to accomplish such in astonishingly short periods of time. Relying on outside contractors, when everyone else also has a high demand for the same contractors doesn't speed the clearance of the timber either.
NJT has a banner on their website stating limited service to return to ML, RV, and NJCL Sunday at least but no further explanation. Deep in MNRR's website is word that some NJT Port Jervis is expected but they would be providing bus service mid days. Pascack Valley customers can bus it across the Hudson and ride to GCT. I expect more details later this evening from both....
BALT...yes, there are fewer track, signal, and structure crews...but, these services were shut down last Sunday night with plenty of time to gather crews and have them on stand by. Further, equipment was not moved to higher ground despite the early quit, the warnings of high water, etc. MNRR and LIRR have performed well but we don't know anythng about NJT because they have said nothing on their website or to the media. Yes, they have had electric problems losing everything at their command center including back up power and emergency generators. But they have not communicated their problems, specific situations, plans, and progress to anyone. This is not like NJT to be this bad, so far behind the others, not having a back up system someplace other than in the Meadows with the main system, and not communicating....they've always been better than this.
Here is what NJT has posted just minutes ago:
Trenton, NJ – Marking key milestones in NJ TRANSIT’s continued recovery, the Christie Administration announced this evening that four additional rail lines would resume service effective Sunday morning. Coming on the heels of the Northeast Corridor’s return to New York Penn Station on Friday morning, the announcements continue the statewide agency’s service restoration efforts following the significant damage incurred by Hurricane Sandy earlier this week.
Effective Sunday morning:
Special schedules detailing this restored service can be accessed by visiting njtransit.com.
“These announcements mark important milestones in NJ TRANSIT’s ongoing recovery efforts,” said Transportation Commissioner and NJ TRANSIT Board Chairman James Simpson. “While this is great news for our customers, the road to recovery continues. NJ TRANSIT crews continue working around the clock to restore service for our customers.”
NJ TRANSIT advises customers of the following:
Rail Service:
A number of rail stations throughout the system may have limited lighting and no elevator and escalator service due to power problems as a result of Hurricane Sandy. As a result, Secaucus Junction will not be ADA accessible until further notice. Customers are urged to use caution in and around all rail stations.
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