that is weekdays only to WTC Chirstopher St, open full time
electric operaton restored to Long Beach on LIRR
Sat 11/23...PATH has announced that on Mon 11/26 they will be operating to World Trade Center from Newark and to 33rd St. from Journal Sq from 5AM to 10PM...still working on things to get into Hoboken...
NJT has not had a prognostication for the new week...but probably will have something to offer by the end of the day Sunday..
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
blue streak 1Maybe it is time to sick Mica onto this mess ?
Streak,
As a Jersey guy I would welcome an inquiry by Transportation Chairman Mica into the damage caused by the failure to move NJT rolling stock to high ground during hurricane Sandy.
While I am sure you are right and much of the damage is to equipment purchased with your tax dollars and the tax dollars of others who live in other states I doubt if the Federal Government has any authority in this kind of case. Stupidity is regrettable but it is not a crime. However, an inquiry by the Congressman would be embarrassing to NJT management. At the same time it would distract the Congressman from his "holy jihad" against our rail passenger system.
John
PS, I don't want to mention any names but perhaps we could find someone familiar with New Jersey commuter railroads to show the Congressman around so he could see some of the places the locomotives and cars would have been safe.
Out here in the wilds of South Dakota we knew for several days before the event that the New York City area was going to have record flooding. Based on that, I find the explanation for what happened -- "well, we had never had water this high at these locations" utterly inadequate. What portion of "record flooding" could they have failed to understand?
Henry,
I think NJT defends rather than explains their actions because there really is no explanation.
It is hard not to notice that they gave their information to the S-L the day before the Thanksgiving holiday when there would not be much chance to respond until next week and when many people were involved in celebrating the holiday. Let us hope their what they said will not be forgotten and lost in the holiday celebration.
Mica's not needed. NJ has Christie. NJ has its taxpayer population. NJ has its reputation. If ya know what I mean.
Henry; this coverup is getting to be very serious. One has to wonder who is going to get the gillotine and who will have to fall on the sword ? One possibility -- If the executives can postpone the day of the truth until after the first of the year will their terminations be more financially beneficial ?
As an out of state person it grinds on me that federal tax dollars have been lost to this incompetence.
Maybe it is time to sick Mica onto this mess ?
My ridewithmehenry guys are planning to ride Lake Hopactcong to Spring Valley 11/28 or 29 depending on NJT and our personal schedules...will know for sure Mon nite 11/26. Proposed is:driving from Binghamton, NY at 5:30AM, lv L..H. ( I like Landing better, but it is Lake Hopactcong) 7:50A to Dover to Sec. Jct. to Spring Valley for lunch, to Hoboken and back to LH before 4PM. Schedule subject to NJT changes on Mon. if any. Join us from Bing..have room for two more average or smaller people in the car...or join us enroute...just let me know at ridewithmehenry@hotmail.com (this is not a business nor commercial venture).
As an addition to above NBC says Amtrak reported commercial power failure affecting switches and signals. LIRR hardest hit then Amtrak and NJT. Power restored just before 7PM and delays are up to 90 minutes for everyone.
Trains News Wire has a piece about NJT that indicates NJT services are almost back to normal. Makes you laugh when you watch the website's alerts. Tonight Amtrak switching problems at NYP closed down Amtrak and NJT according to the ABC Evening News, but created 70-90 minute delays and cancelled trains according to NJT. Throughout the week many scheduled trains fought slippery rail, signal problems, equipment problems and holding for connection problems. Therefore services are actually almost back to normal.
All kidding aside, the indication is totally false. Non only is the Gladstone Branch not operating, all other lines are suffering from lack of equipment and equipment failures. Although there are Mid Town Direct trains from Dover and Montclair, there are few trains making Hoboken connections and no Bay Head to Hoboken service. There are only 3 trains scheduled from Hackettstown and one from Mt. Olive before 7:30 in the morning and four trains returning: one to Lake Hopactcong before 4PM plus three to Hackettstown arriving 7:26, 8:30, and 9:30 with no return services to Hoboken for any. All services are on "modified" schedules which is fewer and slower trains, lack of connections to other routes. I'm not there, but there is no mention on the lack of the flooded equipment's impact on the schedules, size and frequency of trains and shortened hours of service.
And this morning's Star Ledger article has the managers defending but not explaining themselves and their actions but actually opens the flow of questions of what really happened and why not just in defense but also for descriptions and truths about events, damages, and really why service is as the level it is. Also to be asked are how long services will be so sparse and what are they doing to bring service up to par. Betting money is on "we don't know" and "we can't say at this time". In other words, their performance has been a failure and they are lost. I'm waiting for more aggressive reporting and more outraged solons to sign in.
I suspect John Wisniewski, Chairman of the New Jersey Assembly Transportation Committee is going to have some interest in what happened. Right now the Legislature is in recess for the Thanksgiving holiday.
Henry is very correct. Here is a quick summary of what it would have taken to protect the equipment.
260 cars at 85 ft each = 22,100 ft of RR needed to store the cars. 60 RR locomotives at 80 ft each = 4800 ft. total length required is 26,900 ft needed to store equipment . that equals to just over 5 miles of storage that should have been spread out over several lines so no one line failure would have stranded all equipment. a comment about tree damage -- Salt water damage is much more invasive and almost always requires complete replacement due to ongoing salt water corrosion. Don't fire the managers yet but require an undated letters of resignation for each position that will be used once each position is filled with a competent person.
Have activated the article ------
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/flooded_nj_transit_trains_defe.html
Just checked the story and left a comment, too, at the Star Ledger. I am totally dismayed that these guys bungled this disaster so badly. In the light of history, in the light of forecasts and predictions, in the light of what other similar agencies were doing, in the light of responsibility to the agency and its people and equipment, to the state, to their jobs, to the public, their actions and responses are totally indefensible. If I were a resident of NJ or a commuter and more than a 12 times a year rider of NJT, I would be calling for a total housecleaning of these managers. In the comments posted with the Star Ledger article, I do not see one post supporting them or even giving them the benefit of the doubt. And I doubt there will be any.
Wednesday, November 21. In today's Star-Ledger NJT Executive Director James Weinstein shares with us NJT management's analysis of hurricane Sandy's predictions that led the agency to leave 261 cars and 62 locomotives in low lying areas. (NJT's Kearney yard is 10 feet above sea level and the storm surge was predicted to reach 15 feet. In fact it was a little higher than the prediction). There are already a number of comments about the decision. I will leave it to readers to draw their own conclusion. Here is the link: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/flooded_nj_transit_trains_defe.html#incart_m-rpt-1
All the York agencies--Metroploitan Transit Authority, Long Island Rail Road and Metro North--offer much happier notes than New Jersey Transit does, Henry.
But I thought some stuff in the Reuters report was pretty hard hitting.
Nobody in the media is asking anybody at NJT the right questions...just taking the handouts from the Governor's office or reading...as best one can decipher...the web site.
On a totally happier and more savvy note; MTA has trucked 20 cars to Rockaway, got 'em on the rails and will operate four car shuttle trains between 90th Beach and Mott-Far Rockaway. They are designated H shuttles, will run every 15 minutes in four car sets from 4AM to 12:30 AM until the Jamaica Bay bridge and causway is returned to service from Howard Beach Blvd.. And the fare is zip, zero, zilch, nothing. Bus connection continues from Howard Beach Blvd to Mott Ave. KUDOS to MTA for working for the people of NYCity.
John WR Reuters news service has detailed the damage to NJT equipment as a result of Hurricane Sandy. Most of their damaged equipment was stored in their Meadowlands Yard which is between 0 and 19 feet above sea level. This yard sits in a swampy crook where the Hackensack and Passaic Rivers meet. Extra high tides plus wind blown water resulted in water 5 feed deep in the Meadowlands yard, deep enough to rise to the top of the wheel wells, soak controls, heating and air conditioning equipment and electric motors. About a quarter of NJT's rolling stock was damaged. New York Railroad officials had moved their rolling stock to high ground where it suffered little or no damage. Exceutive Director James Weinstein is reported as saying NJT knew of the weather predictions but was skeptical of them because in their own experience this had never before happened. Other authorities have been critical of NJT officials for dismissing the weather reports. NJT says it has no plans to conduct an inquiry into what when wrong. Repair costs are estimated to be $900 million. Here is a link to the Reuters report: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/17/us-storm-sandy-newjersey-railway-idUSBRE8AG0K220121117
Reuters news service has detailed the damage to NJT equipment as a result of Hurricane Sandy. Most of their damaged equipment was stored in their Meadowlands Yard which is between 0 and 19 feet above sea level. This yard sits in a swampy crook where the Hackensack and Passaic Rivers meet. Extra high tides plus wind blown water resulted in water 5 feed deep in the Meadowlands yard, deep enough to rise to the top of the wheel wells, soak controls, heating and air conditioning equipment and electric motors. About a quarter of NJT's rolling stock was damaged. New York Railroad officials had moved their rolling stock to high ground where it suffered little or no damage. Exceutive Director James Weinstein is reported as saying NJT knew of the weather predictions but was skeptical of them because in their own experience this had never before happened. Other authorities have been critical of NJT officials for dismissing the weather reports. NJT says it has no plans to conduct an inquiry into what when wrong. Repair costs are estimated to be $900 million.
Here is a link to the Reuters report: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/17/us-storm-sandy-newjersey-railway-idUSBRE8AG0K220121117
Somebody has a lot of explaining to do - but so far, it doesn't sound like anyone of authority is asking the questions.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
And other accounts have indicated lots of the damaged cars and locomotives were in Hoboken. We won't know the truth until NJT come around to admitting what happened. And after so much time, it will be questioned even further. This is the foolhardy idea that saying nothing covers up the truth when it really exposes the truth or, worse yet, has speculation that the whole situation is worse and those in charge look worse than that.
All but the Gladstone Line saw service today. NJT claims it is using "normal schedules" but there are some omitted trains, trains being cancelled, and modified schedules. The best two lines seem to be the Corridor and the MNRR Port Jervis line as far as full schedules followed by Dover to NYP, Pascack Valley, and Montclair easts; west of Dover is totally different with fewer trains and changed schedules. This morning (Mon 11/19) saw massive delays and cancellations and combining of trains but so far this evening (5:20PM EST) there are no delay reports or changes being reported. So far. MNRR and LIRR have run as they said they would.
As promised NJT did post new and modified schedules for all lines for Monday, Nov 19th. They are difficult to find, you've got to go on the NJTransit.com website, click on the red banner above or the picture in the middle, then find the line about "Light Rail and Rail click here" in order to find them. They are sparse, too, with a reduced number of trains and connections on all lines without explanation. We can see that these schedules reflect the lack of equipment to do the normal job and not the lack of facilities and crews to run the trains. They still haven't come clean on there predicament with equipment. They have not even acknowledged the 20 some odd cars Bombdier specially sent down to NYP from Plattsburgh, NY via Amtrak. To say I am disappointed in NJT's public communications is an understatement and undermines my faith in the ability of the management. Up to now, I have always given them high marks for both operations and keeping people informed, always given them the benefit of the doubt. But can't say that anymore. I would also believe that there will be more changes before this next week is out and for the following week, too.
Thank you for the link, Balt.
This is a "what could they have been thinking" story. Anyone who has ridden a train between Newark and New York or between anyplace and Hoboken (and there are many many of us) knows perfectly well that the tracks go through an enormous swap, a wetland area that lies between higher ground and the rivers that open into the Atlantic Ocean. It is obvious that it is in danger of flooding. For many many years it has a history of flooding. And the weather reports said it would flood.
I expect many people are going to call on Jim Weinstein and even Governor Christie to know why the trains were not moved to higher areas. There are plenty of them.
Thank you BALTACD! This is indeed a long overdue piece from the news media. And it raises a lot of questions. The first one for me is that it says there was an emergecy command center somewhere for NJT...this is something that NJT should have stated which would have given some hope of integrity to NJT and its operation efforts. After that, the piece tries to get explanations from NJT officials, but gets defenseless whitewash instead. I mean the excuse that "information and experience" led them to leave equipment in danger when real maps and forecasters laid out doom predictions of waves and high waters in excess of the zero to 9 foot elevation of the Meadows! One NJT official says there is an investigation underway while the top man denies that by brushing it aside as being a normal review after any problem. This piece, to me anyway, reveals the fears I had about ineptness and internal confusion NJT was having in handling both the pre-storm and the railroad, as well as the storm and the railroad, and the storm and the people NJT serves. If Governor Christie is the man of conviction he says he is, then there will be a very strong hand creating a very needed investigation into NJT's response to the prestorm information, responses during and after the storm, and NJT's inability to communicate its problems and predicaments. Additionally there should be questions about the operations of NJT in relation to equipment choices and operating procedures in general from push pull vs multiple unit trains to BiLevel cars instead of other choices, and coordination of connections at Sec. Jct, Hoboken and both Newark Stations among other things. These were never questions before, but the naive and nonchalant statements by NJT managers as quoted in this article commands such an investigation.
Mainstream media now gets into the act - 3 weeks later
http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-jersey-railway-put-trains-sandy-flood-zone-020644706.html
I think I know what you mean, ERIKEM, but I don't know what can be done...by me...because I don't know what I could do different, I just copied and pasted. I find that I get that too from photo's when I get them in my email but when I enter the site at Trains, they are all there OK. But if nothing else works, you can go to www.njtransit.com and find it there....
Your post at 7:46PM EDT on 11/16/12 was clipped on the right margin. Browser here is Firefox 16.0.2 running on MacOS 10.8.
- Erik
Thanks for the Video, Henry. I read in my Star Ledger that Senators Lautenberg and Menendez have arranged to speed up $25 million in Federal Funds that had been allocated to NJT before the storm. The money will now be used for repairs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiSO-XlODBo&feature=em-uploademail
address above is for Youtube video of two Amtrak loco's hauling 21 NJT BiLevels through Albany Renselear and later whipping through Peekskill enroute to NYP...cars were on order, finished, and final touches put rushed to get them to NJT ahead of schedule. This was supposed to have moved last (Friday, 11/16/12) night. CNN orignially said 65 locomotives and 257 cars, I believe, and now another thread is saying 67 locomotives and 224 cars were damaged (still no description of damage nor extent). But things are progressing....in NJ.
Yeah....but who's gonna do it? Not easy when you don't know what is where anymore.
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