John WR Wednesday, December 12. My morning Star-Ledger's headline, front page and above the fold, is "Weather Experts Contradict New Jersey Transit Chief." Here is the link to the on line Star-Ledger: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/questions_surface_over_nj_tran.html#incart_m-rpt-1
Wednesday, December 12. My morning Star-Ledger's headline, front page and above the fold, is "Weather Experts Contradict New Jersey Transit Chief." Here is the link to the on line Star-Ledger: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/questions_surface_over_nj_tran.html#incart_m-rpt-1
activated
Henry,
You have pointed out that management has failed to communicate with the public. One reason to communicate is to put an end to unfounded rumors such as the rumor that management refused to move equipment to a safe place to avoid paying overtime. Management's silence certainly leaves people wondering if the rumor is unfounded or not.
Will the Star-Ledger's reports prompt any further information? We'll have to wait and see.
sandyhookken I met my neighbor's brother-in-law this weekend, who is a foreman at NJTransit Rail in Hoboken. According to a rumor circulating throughout the shop, some NJT supervisors tried to get permission on Sunday night to move equipment from Hoboken and the MMC to Port Morris and Waldwick yards. This request was turned down by upper management because of pressuer from the Board to minimze overtime. He couldn't verify if this was true, or just another of the many rumors in the shop. If true, this could be an explanation for the "duck & cover" approach to communications from NJT. No one wants to admit that they ruined $100 m to save a few thousand $ in overtime.
I met my neighbor's brother-in-law this weekend, who is a foreman at NJTransit Rail in Hoboken. According to a rumor circulating throughout the shop, some NJT supervisors tried to get permission on Sunday night to move equipment from Hoboken and the MMC to Port Morris and Waldwick yards. This request was turned down by upper management because of pressuer from the Board to minimze overtime. He couldn't verify if this was true, or just another of the many rumors in the shop.
If true, this could be an explanation for the "duck & cover" approach to communications from NJT. No one wants to admit that they ruined $100 m to save a few thousand $ in overtime.
This rumor has been passing around for a couple weeks now. The fear of paying overtime is often a management phobia whether public or private enterprise. Like closing down 48 hours for holidays to save overtime pay not to give employee holidays off...then take a whole week with overtime or non service to catch up on the lost time. Pennies wise and pounds foolish...doesn't always make one wise or rich. In NJT's case, first, Sunday's crews could have taken trains to safe havens. Since operations were suspended, then what overtime would there have been to call regular crews from Sunday through Monday to move the equipment? .this overtime argument doesn't make sense and is just verbal camouflage by mismanagers.
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I don't know how it plays in New Jersey, but the issue of overtime for public employees, including transit workers, can be a major negative factor for the managers of various agencies in Illinois when the press gets wind of it.
Wednesday, December 12. My morning Star-Ledger's headline, front page and above the fold, is "Weather Experts Contradict New Jersey Transit Chief." On line the headline is different but the information is the same. There was in fact information about the flooding of NJT's Kearney facility well before the storm. Had NJT bothered to call the weather service there would have been further clarification. No one at NJT bothered. Of course no one from the S-L was called to testify at the Assembly Transportation Committee Hearing. Had either of the writers been there, Mike Frassinelli or Stephen Stirling, the information would have been very different.
Here is the link to the on line Star-Ledger: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/questions_surface_over_nj_tran.html#incart_m-rpt-1
MidlandMike John WR Henry, You are correct. No one in government will mention the elephant in the room. There has to be a hidden agenda here but I don't know what it is. New Jersey's first priority is to get the damaged equipment replaced, which will require federal money. Gov Christie is not going to have a show trial, which might make the state look irresponsible, and make the feds think twice about granting the replacement funds. I suspect the gov's office has already done a quiet investigation to answer any questions the feds may ask, and then after the replacement funds are committed, there will be plenty of time for an inquisition.
John WR Henry, You are correct. No one in government will mention the elephant in the room. There has to be a hidden agenda here but I don't know what it is.
You are correct. No one in government will mention the elephant in the room. There has to be a hidden agenda here but I don't know what it is.
New Jersey's first priority is to get the damaged equipment replaced, which will require federal money. Gov Christie is not going to have a show trial, which might make the state look irresponsible, and make the feds think twice about granting the replacement funds. I suspect the gov's office has already done a quiet investigation to answer any questions the feds may ask, and then after the replacement funds are committed, there will be plenty of time for an inquisition.
Excellent point, Mike. Politics may be playing the game in the background. Still, the point will be that NJT has not communicated and has not been forthright in addressing the public about how they screwed up.
agree
Comissioner James Simpson declined to come before the Assembly Committee to testify. I expressed my opinion in the comment section after the article in the Star-Ledger. If I express my opinion here there will be a risk of having the thread locked for being too political so I will not do so.
There was no risk Sunday as they were closing down. And the concept of a track crew with chain saws to move a few trees or a back hoe to fill in a washout is a hell of a lot cheaper than rewiring one locomotive or one car ruined by water, salt or fresh. His statements don't compute as being sensible based on the information he was getting and compared to what NYMTA,, MNRR and LIRR were doing in face of the same storm and within 20 miles of MMC! No way could they have lost 250 cars and 65 locomotives by moving them to higher ground not near water courses no matter how many trees and wires fell and how much track was washed out!
If I may add a bit to your insightful post, Henry:
James Weinstein gives the reason for not moving equipment to safe areas as the risk of fallen wires and trees.
But railroad equipment is pretty rugged. Trees and wires falling on it would most likely cause significant damage. They could, however, isolate the equipment until the tracks were cleared. It could be several days before the equipment was actually accessible and usable. That is true but when equipment is badly damaged it is also out of service for a time. It is certainly better to have equipment temporarily unreachable than to have it badly damaged.
And of course the trees would be much less of a problem had NJT been performing routine maintenance along its right of way.
John
But MNRR has overhead to contend with and were back in business. MNRR is also on the banks of the Hudson and third rail or not, salt water coming up stream can cause damage. The LIRR suffered badly along places close along the Atlantic Ocean especially to Long Beach. NYCTA still have not brought back the Magnoila Tunnel nor South Ferry and the A train from Howard Beach Blvd across Jamaica Bay to the Rockaway Peninsula (but have trucked 5 four car trainsets to operate only on the peninsula!). With NJT there are a couple of factors: 1) They ignored the warnings of several weather services.and therefore did not remove equipment far enough out of expected harm's way. 2) They did not have a back up system remote from the Meadows for dispatching, operating, or communicating. 3) They did not, and still haven't, commuticated with the public what was happening and how bad the damages were. MNRR reportedly made the decision to put trains at Otisville and Campbell Hall instead of leaving them along water courses. NJT did not respond well, did not respond quickly, did not communicate their problems to the public.
Also Rockaway Beach service. The last I read elsewhere was NYCTA thinks that this line will be repaired across Jamaica Bay in time for next summers beach season.
As to NJT management, I would not be surprised if people did not rally to the cry of the French revolution "Off with their heads". (yes I know over the top)
Thx IGN
A comment from a Monday morning QB:
The unusual part of the hurricane was what is called a "Right shoulder hit". The Atlantic hurricanes that have hit the Mid Atlantic states in the last century have come ashore on Long Island or further south in Virginia. This storm was rare in that it hit in central NJ. Further what the "Right shoulder hit" did in this case was push the strongest part of the storm, the east side(or seaward side), into New York Bay. This is where the wind was pushing the ocean water towards land. Add to that the shape of the lower harbor and the convergence of Long Island and New Jersey. Think of what happens when you push water with a squeegee into a corner(then add the third dimension of the rising ocean floor bottom).
One of the outer harbor bouys recorded a 35ft wave. Think of what happens to a wave like that as it comes ashore and you can see what I suspect happened in Staten Island.
The last storm that did this was around 1890 or 1900 I think. This storm was the storm that joined Coney Island to Brooklyn(Coney Island was a barrier island before then). The storm surge from that storm moved so much sand that it filled in the water course(more of an estuary I think) that separated Coney Island from Brooklyn.
To the current situation. When the National Weather Service looked at the potential storm track they understood the risk, and started issuing very strong warnings for the New York-New Jersey area. As long as you either listen to the experts or understand the science behind the forecast you can plan.
One other difference between NYCTA - LIRR and NJT think of all that third rail vs the overhead wire. NJT has suffered storm damage from downed overhead, however not a lot from flooding.
I may be wrong on the last. If I am Henry please say so.
Rgds IGN
I read the article and passed it on to TRAINS' Editor. It seems like everybody was using a velvet hammer for some reason. No one posed the right questions. The wrong decision about moving and storing is sort of accepted, no questions about lack of communications, no questions about a remote back up system, no questions that showed if anyone is really interested in getting facts or just putting on a show to put on a show.
The Star-Ledger reports the New Jersey Assembly Transportation Committee held a hearing about NJT's storm preparations yesterday. Executive Director James Weinstein testified there was no way to know how severe Sandy would be. It was shabby but at least he showed up. Commissioner James Simpson didn't bother to even show up. There are a lot of comments about the story. All are negative assessments of NJT. Can NJT overcome this negative opinion by the arrogant treatment of Legislative oversight from people like Commissioner James Simpson? We will have to wait and see.
All I can think of the the traditional "Public be damned" philosophy expressed by William K. Vanderbilt.
Here is the link: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/nj_transit_boss_vows_mistake_t.html#incart_river
PATH had reduced service! Next two weekends no weekend uptown service, only WTC-Newark! This is bad for pre-holiday shoppers, but may be necessary to get Hoboken back.
LIRR returned to "full service" today. MTA still not running R train from Manhattan to Brooklyn nor A or S from Howard Beach Blvd to the Rockaway peninsula. NJT has not added trains nor altered schedules since last Monday, Dec. 3rd..except for addition of weekend Morristown-Gladstone schedules
Effective today, all LIRR service is normal. One East River tunnel is still at reduced capacity, but will be fully operatonal in time for the Christmas rush.
Actually two lines are closed. Trains run Newark Penn to WTC with no service to Hoboken or 33rd St. As the announcement says having at least 48 hours without traffic will speed up the recovery repairs better than anything else at this time.
Henry-- PATH is going to shut down all but one line this weekend to speed up repairs on rest of system especially Hoboken.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/m_and_w/path-curtails-weekend-service-to-speed-repairs.html?channel=5
Probably a wise decision to give an unimpeeded work window ?
I finally got to read through Joe Boardman's remarks to Congress in their entirety. He certainly said a lot about what Amtrak was up against before, during and after Sandy and detailed what Amtrak did to meet the challenges. With the upcoming investigation into NJT, I would propose that all NJT people read Boardman's comments then be asked what they did an didn't do compared to what Amtrak did.
Aside from Sandy's wrath and problems, Boardman also made a good pitch for the need for an entire approach to infrastructure improvements and alterations for Amtrak, NJT, LIRR, and MNRR to meet the future of the New York Metropolitan area, something Congress and area politicians should note and start working on.
If it has not been posted elsewhere, Gladstone branch electric train service has finally been restored, the last of the NJT lines without rail service.
In NYC, aside from the cross-bay Rockaway main line (brach of "A"), the Montague Street tunnel, between Whitehall Street and DeKalb, and South Ferry Station on the "1", trains turning at Rector St. are still being repaired.
Actually, Streak, here are Joe Boardman's exact words:
"The first area is our Fire and Life Safety program for the tunnels into and out of New
York. We realized in 2001 that Amtrak had some potential vulnerabilities associated with the
New York tunnels, and I give my predecessors credit for the speed with which they moved to
address these vulnerabilities once they were identified, and the work that was done to ensure that
the improvements were funded. A standpipe system was installed; this was designed to allow the
fire department to pipe water into the tunnels in the event of a fire."
All he says is "New York Tunnels." His most recent reference a few sentences earlier was to the "North River" tunnels and I just took him at his word. However, he the previous sentence he speaks of the "East River" tunnels so perhaps I was reading him too literally.
John WR Thanks for the link, Streak. drainage pumps in the North River Tunnels to cleaning out culverts and drainage ditches.
Thanks for the link, Streak.
drainage pumps in the North River Tunnels to cleaning out culverts and drainage ditches.
I believe that is the east river tunnels ?
What strikes me is the damage that did not happen because of prior actions from installing new standpipes and drainage pumps in the North River Tunnels to cleaning out culverts and drainage ditches. Joe Boardman portrays Amtrak as an organization that has kept its own house in order by making needed improvements as soon as possible and constantly tending to household chores.
although not all of the preparations that AMTRAK did apply to our commuter RRs a list is enlightning. Here is Boardman's testimony to the Senate committee. draw your own conclsions ---
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/1019/981/Amtrak-CEO-Boardman-Senate-Commerce-testimony-Dec-06-2012.pdf
I can imagine the reaction of the Senators if Jim Weinstein gives them the same reasons for not moving NJT equipment to a safe place that he had given us. I know a fair amount of the funds to buy this equipment came from Federal grants in the first place.
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