I was born in 1943 and was immediately riding the subway and trolley system...by the time I was all of 3 months old, I rode Chicago to Sacramento...to Texas less than 5 months later and back to NY not two months later than that. My mother and I lived with her parents in Jamaica, LI and after the war my parents bought a house in NJ literally on the track of the Lackawanna RR. Many trips to and from Denville, NJ and NYC have followed including a commutation stint in the summer of 1957. I have always followed the plights and flights of the NYC area commuter service virtually since I was about 10 or so years old not just as a rider buy as an enthusiast and historian.I
I never said anything about PATH that I would alter or expect the ateration of its cars or infratructure. The almost right angle curves and the confines of real tubes cannot be overcome without extensive reengineering and rebuilding, a cost that is far beyond comprehension and ability at this time. But see the exchange I've had above about system's client design marketing and use to help understand my thinking. And I am not a big fan of Robert Moses in the long run, but can see his practicality of the times in both political perspective as well as social perspective along with the persuasive lobbying by highway and oil interests of the time. The two track Corridor actually begins nearer to old Hudson tower where the line takes off north from the PRR main line to Jersey City, is four tracked only at Secaucus for the Junction.. If you step outside NJ, it is mostly 2 track I believe most of the way from Wilmington to Baltimore but back to 3 or 4 tracks from there to D.C. Another Hudson River tunnel for two or more tracks is an absolute must. But I also advocate it or another be dug further south nearer Hoboken and Jersey City and like the PRR project of the 1910's also continue under the East River to connect with the LIRR either at Atlantic Ave. or, via other unused rights to way to Fresh Pond and Jamaica.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I reviews this whole thread and went back 4 pages but found nothing I could recognize about the "PATH system's client design," Henry. I am aware the tubes were deliberately kept small so trains would push air out and pull air in for ventilation. And when the PATH was built certainly there was no thought of Newark Airport. I suppose there were reasons it was built with such tight curves but we agree that it would make no sense to re do it to modern standards.
In a perfect world I would like to see a direct rail connection between NY Penn Station and Grand Central. The lack of a connection is the price we have paid for private ownership of railroads. They should have been connected when Penn Station was built.
You started riding trains earlier than I did. As a teenager I began going from New York to Boston in the 50's. Then I went into the Army and began riding between Trenton and Providence. After the Army I took a long trip but talking about it is taboo. Then, as life took me different places, I simply chose to ride trains whenever I could as a paying passenger.
John, I can admire your loyalty to NJT, however, making people stand from NYP to Newark Airport just makes them annoyed and looking for other options. They may even loose some of the longer distance passengers that they should be serving. It's not ideal public service. Adding the PATH option would entice more people to to use public transit. The short fares NJT looses to PATH could conceivably be made up by retaining the longer fares.
JohnWR...are you in the NY metropolitan area now? If so, join us in one of our RIdewthmehenry trips. We drive from Binghamton to a NJT/MNRR railhead and ride to the end of LIRR or MNRR or NTJ lines, even SEPTA. This Wednesday, in fact, we are planning to take the 7:46AM out of Port Jervis with an eye to going to Jamaica on the LIRR then search some surface subway riding taking the J train over the Williamsburg Bridge to Manhattan, F train to 4th in Brooklyn, R train to 36th, D train detour to D train route and north stopping at 9th Ave before continuing the D train to the N train over the Manhattan Bridge. Maybe R train from Chambers St. to Rector and PATH to Hoboken....it's partly planned and partly winging dependent on weather, etc. We all, this time anyway, use OFF---Old Fart Fares---so its a cheap day. Often we are joined enroute by those who don't live up here in the hinterlands...Anybody reading this can join us, too....but would like to know who you are and where you will be catching up with us so I can be sure to be where you will meet us at a given time.
I agree, Mike, that people should be able to find a seat on NJT trains. But do you really think PATH trains will offer an improvement? My experience is that in Newark PATH trains can be so crowded that you can't even get on the train much less find a seat and you have to wait for the next train. The Port Authority cannot add more PATH trains because the system is at its maximum capacity right now. An Airport link would only add standing room. But the PATH fare to the Airport would in all probability be cheaper than NJT and attract people for that reason.
Also, bear in mind that only people who leave Manhattan during the evening rush hour would have difficulty finding seats on NJT trains. At Newark a lot of people get off to change to diesel trains so seats are freed up.
My impression is that most people who fly out of Newark take morning flights.
Thank you for the invitation, Henry, but I'll have to say no thanks to your invitation. These days I'm retired and get the same OFF you do but I have a little part time job taking my grandson to nursery school and bringing him home so I'm not really available. I do live in the metropolitan area, in Bloomfield close to the Montclair Boonton Line and some trains go directly to Penn Station so the logistics would work but, as I say, my schedule won't.
For about 20 years I commuted to Hoboken from the Waldwick Station on the old Erie Port Jervis Line. Do you ever go to a place like Lyndhurst where Jay Gould raised his orchids?
Well I lived next to the DL&W, about a quarter mile west of Denville station from 1946 until leaving for college in 1961. My parents lived their until their deaths and the house left the family. So I just go down there to ride trains. As I mentoned we're going out of Port Jervis ths Wednesday. We have another trip planned for later this fall from either Hackettstown or Mt. Arlington to Hoboken to Spring Valley and return. Ild lke to get a trip up the Harlem line sometime, soon. We often do Saturday trips...there are some that can only be done on weekends just like some that can only be done weekdays...from either Port Jervis or Denville. send me your email address to ridewithmehenry@hotmail.com and I'll put you on my list that I notify when we plan trips. I do not charge...gas is shared out of Binghamton and sometimes I get my dinner paid for, but othrewise it is to ride trains and lines and see daily operations rather than tourst trains.
The fact that standees are evident between NY & Newark, even packed trains, means that NJT is loosing long distance commuters to places like New Bruswick and Princeton Jc. Putting some of the short distance commuters on PATH will allow more space for longer distance commuters and thus improve the publc transit to auto commuter ratio. People like one-seat rides . There are plenty of NYC empoyment opportunities in the region from Cortland Street to Herald Square, but PATH has not gone after this business, except for people living in Hoboken and JC and commuting via the old DL&W and Erie lines. In the end, NJT ridership will continue to increase and a greater proportion will be longer distance,
Yes a train pulls into Newark PATH departure track as soon as one leaves. But it sits there a while and does not fill all at once. They are running about a 270 second headway at the tightest, and a 90 or 100 second headway is technically possible, with modern signalling, computer control of junctions, and hostlers at Newark for the reversing pocket moves. Then WTC trains can alternate with Herald Sq. trains..
I feel like I'm being outvoted here, Dave. Well, I have to agree that if the Port Authority does build a line to Newark Airport the sky will not fall. We will have to wait and see what the PA does.
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