Sam, you underscore what I call the "Lionel" syndrome approach to HSR and transit both. It is proposed because of the glitz and glitter, the concept of the Lionel set running around the Christmas tree, the nostalgic kick of steaming home from war or to grandma's for holiday. Too often it is built with dreams in mind rather than practicality or is just plain not sold and marketed in an intellegent and effective way. We do need good public transportation for ecological reasons as much as for the crowding of highways and lack of parking and raising fuel costs. But we have to get the public behind it for what it is, what it does, and what it will do, and not because it sounds sexy or nostalgic.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
henry6 First, I don't see that multi billion dollar figure you mention in any of today's NewWire items. But It takes money to do things. We spend billions and billions doing lots of things in this country. Other countries spend more. We have a private enterprise system. They havent stepped up to do it. They will benefit by their employees being able to get to and from work quickly and inexpensively. Retailers will benefit from those who will be able to travel to and from their estabilshiments quickly and inexpensively. Environmentalists have their own set of accomplishments these lines will bring that will lower the costs of living. But with no private entrapenure willing to do the the job for himself and fellow entrepenures, who should do it? And how much should they pay?
First, I don't see that multi billion dollar figure you mention in any of today's NewWire items. But It takes money to do things. We spend billions and billions doing lots of things in this country. Other countries spend more. We have a private enterprise system. They havent stepped up to do it. They will benefit by their employees being able to get to and from work quickly and inexpensively. Retailers will benefit from those who will be able to travel to and from their estabilshiments quickly and inexpensively. Environmentalists have their own set of accomplishments these lines will bring that will lower the costs of living. But with no private entrapenure willing to do the the job for himself and fellow entrepenures, who should do it? And how much should they pay?
Investor owned enterprises (private enterprise) have not invested in passenger rail (intercity or transit) for a very good reason. They would lose money by the buckets, which would not be acceptable to their investors.
Businesses benefit from local transit, especially if it is economical and, therefore, used by their employees and customers. They pay taxes to support the systems. My Dallas corporate employer paid more in local taxes than it paid in federal income taxes. Some of the monies went to support Dallas Area Rapid Transit. A relatively small per cent of our employees used DART to get to and from work. I was one of the few managers who used public transit. And I was the only senior manager in the company who used it. The company subsidized the cost of the transit fares. At the end of the day, however, most of the employees drove to work.
The McKinney Avenue Trolley runs from a high density residential complex in Uptown Dallas to downtown Dallas. It should draw a significant number of commuters. It doesn't! Most people in Uptown who work downtown drive. And they usually don't have to go more than a mile or two.
What other countries spend on passenger rail (intercity or transit) is irrelevant to the question of what we should spend. The same concept applies to what is spent on other activities or what has been wasted on whatever program one thinks is a waste. The U.S. is a distinct culture; solutions that may be appropriate in Europe or Asia are not necessarily ones that will work in the U.S. The real questions is where does it make sense in the U.S. to invest in passenger rail (intercity and transit)?
Henry6 wrote:"...Today, a nickle is too much for a bank to pay in interest and too little for an investor to bother trying to earn. It is too little an amount to comprehend in terms of millions of dollars a year! Yet that is what it is still all about.."
Exactly That was the point I was trying to make. It seems like an awful lot of monies to spend for a relatively short amount of track, and equipment . One has to wonder what kinds of fares will have to be charged to justify the original expenses and operating overhead.
Real millionairs, not the new ones, old money millionairs, know the value of a penny. Or a nickle. Rockefeller sold clean, high quality kerosene for a nickle a quart and gave out nickels and dimes to people on the street noting that it was the earned interest on one dollar in the bank for a year. Wrigley and Astor collected thier millions selling items and services a nickel at a time as did many others. Today, a nickle is too much for a bank to pay in interest and too little for an investor to bother trying to earn. It is too little an amount to comprehend in terms of millions of dollars a year! Yet that is what it is still all about.
henry6 $$$$. See Everett Dirksons comment. "A million here, and million there, and soon you are talking real money."
$$$$. See Everett Dirksons comment. "A million here, and million there, and soon you are talking real money."
Henry:
Unfortunately, There is more truth than poetry in that statement!
I couldn't agree more!
What was the story about Barbara Streisand; Her agent said she would hit the ceiling when anyone wanted to mention buying something for a couple of thousand dollars, and spending tens of thousands went uncommented. When asked; Babs said, she could understand, and knew what it took for the smaller amounts, but could not simply comprehend the larger amounts.
I guess when you Own the printing press, money is not a problem?
I posted the total of the figures listed in the Newswire Stories referencing the Transit lin between Minneapolis and St. Paul,Mn. It indicated that they were wanting to build a line linking the Twin Cities of 11 miles in length. Also that they had already spent a total of $145 Million already spent on engineering/ROW and Construction(?); and then were going to Congress for additional funding of at least half the amount totaling $957 Million to finish their LRT/Trolley (?) link.
The story about the 2.5 mile EXTENTION of the existing trackage was expected to run $45 MIllion with that money to come from the Federal Piggybank and the additional $79 million to come from a local tax issue amounting to $79 million. This money was to pay for a 2.5 mile line addition to the existing NOPSI Trolley lines.
As you are aware we have discussed costs on a number of occasions in the Threads on this Forum. I was just flabbergasted at the fact tha some a totaled amount was going to buy and construct 13.5 miles of track and ROW. It seems that when the Government is envolved the costs just go pout the roof, especially in a time when it seems that budget busting projects and spending issues. I can understand that if the folks in Minnesota had already spent $145 M on their project, that rather than go to the Feds for more, issue bonds to finish the project.
New Orleans is a tourist destination and relies on the tourist industry to bring in lots of monies, but it has been 6 years since Katrina and they still have not rebuilt the 9th Ward to asny major degree or completed the planned repairs on the levves and pumps around the city. Some of the areas that they want to build the Rampart/St Claude Extention are unbelieveably depressed. Just to spend $124 M just so you could name the line for the Play "A Streetcar Named Desire" sor of boggles the mind.
Forgive me! but these figures jump out at me from today's TRAINS Newswire. What is that amount of a mix of Federal dollars and local tax dollars going to buy?
For startrs in Minnesota you are going to get 11 miles of light rail connecting Minneapolis and St. Paul with a modern version of the old street cars. I am guessing it also gets you some cars to carry the paying passengers on; the prediction is for 41,000 people on a weekday day to ride the system. They have already spent some $145 million dollars on engineering, ROW purchases and construction costs. They are now going to Congress expecting that the US Congress will fund at least half of the Remaining Costs of #957 Million.
New Orleans is wanting to expand its current existing system by 2.5 miles. expanding into neighborhoods not currently served. From the French Quarter Canal Street out Rampart to St Claude and branch down Elysian Fields ( which was where Tennessee Williams: A Streetcar Named Desire was set) This little expansion is expected to cost $45 MIllion from Federal Funds and $79 million from Sales Taxes.
The few time I have ridden on NOPSI Cars they were a long way from being full, although, I am sure at times they are S.R.O. mostlty, they don't seem to be so the $79 m seems to be overly optimistic, but sures that would never be with politicians in New Orleans.
Video of NOPSI Car # 836 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az0P7KNP4_Q&feature=related
oR tHIS LINK OF NOLA Trolley cars:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXnJV0tpL7I&feature=related
I'm just sayin'! sure looks like a lota money :
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.