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East Side Access Project - Grand Central Terminal - NYC.

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East Side Access Project - Grand Central Terminal - NYC.
Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 7:39 AM
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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 4:27 PM

The graph in the video showing construction costs/km was interesting.  The US is not the highest cost.  UK is higher, and NZ is almost twice as much.  (So much for narrow gauge savings.)

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, August 23, 2021 10:34 PM

It apncpears the storm Henrici did not hit NYC as hard as forcast. And with Tennesee experiencing a downpour of 12 inchs, and the flash floods, I wondered what would happen if that hit the area near the entrance to the tubes to the new Grand Central Station for the Long Island RR. Would they flood like the East River tunnels and if so, wouldn't the new subterranean fill with water? 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 4:16 AM

After Sandy, preventive measures to prevent under-river tunnels from flooding were implemented on all these raileoad and subway tunnels, including the new ones.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 11:28 AM

daveklepper

After Sandy, preventive measures to prevent under-river tunnels from flooding were implemented on all these raileoad and subway tunnels, including the new ones.

Dave, I cannot conceive of what they could do to handle a 12 inch rainfall over Sunnyside yards. As fell in Waverly TN. Sweeping homes off foundations. That would head for the lowest point and I believe the portal would be like a big drain for the water. I doubt the portals are not the lowest spot in the area. In Cincinnati, we had flood gates and they were closed when the Ohio river went above flood stage. New Orleans has pumps to keep it dry but Huricanes still flooded it.  I don't think pumps and generators could handle such a deluge and am concerned over people having to evacuate the New subterranean terminal. 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 2:17 PM

That level of rainfall has occurred in the area before; several times in fact during the time I lived in Englewood, across the river.

I believe we have had threads on the storm gates that were installed years ago: they are basically reinforced inflatables, capable of being deployed in just a few minutes, that 'key' into their portal with watertight elastomer seal and are proof against both static pressure and any potential fetch or wave action.  Something similar for East Side Access bores would be very simple; I can think of simple ways it could be made independent of electric power.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 11:35 PM

Did they have them for the older PRR/LIRR East River tunnels or is did they not have them when Sandy hit? I just have visions of trainsets in the station as sitting in a station thats filled with water. I keep hearing the phrase "NOTHING CAN GO WROand NG..." I remember going into a McDonalds in Oakbrook IL blocks from their HQ a few weeks after the introduction of the Quarter Pounder and when I ordered one I had to take it back because it was drastically under cooked (bloody). The young crew man told me it couldn't be, it was cooked by the computer. Never mind that he could see the blood. I asked for a supervisor who told me the same thing. Asked for the manager, he took one look turned and dumped the whole batch into the trash and told me they'd bring me a new one. 

I would not want to be in that station if it ever floods. I've had two homes where the basements flooded. That was minor. Was in Chicago when the freight tunnels flooded. Before they flooded, I had been in them and walked in them from Adams and Wacker to Van Buren and Canal and back. Often thankful that they had never flooded since opening and could not think they might. No quick way out.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 26, 2021 11:35 AM

The story abou the PRR-LIRR tunnela ia a sad one/

No they were not prepared, and neitiher was Penn Station.

The flood poured into Penn Station.  Amtrak decided that whatever damage the tunnels endured would be easier a less expensive than the whole Penn Station track and switches complex, so they deliberately allowed the flood waters to drain into the tunnels and saved the interlocking complexes at each end of the station where the water remained below rail-head level.  Ditto applied to the LI City end.  Not sure wnat happened at Portal, the Jersey end.

The flood resistatn measures that have been implemented since include protection of both the station and the tunnels.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 26, 2021 1:05 PM

daveklepper
Not sure what happened at Portal, the Jersey end

I don't know how far the surge came up the Hackensack and Passaic, which would be the only way I'd expect significant storm water drainage to the back of the Palisades at that location.

It would be comparatively very simple to install 'inflatable' storm gates at those locations, including passthrough to permit high-volume pumping to the Jersey side from the low point in the bores.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 27, 2021 10:07 AM

Whatever they have done, they announced they are now prepared.

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