About time.
https://www.dailyherald.com/amp-article/20190320/news/190329827/?fbclid=IwAR0hKesB6dP7FS2CcxBk3MqjAQl4jPP3CZSuw0VtnmIESHclJyYAGgzKHpg
The RFP is pretty general but does not rule out a modified gallery design.
Some one suggested a radical idea that at present is not viable at CHI or probably any other agency but could be applied to long range plans ( 50 - 80 years).
His idea was to build cars that are much taller than present galley cars. Of course they would not be able to fit in CHI union station as superliners just barely fit but would not clear CAT if installed on ceiling.
The idea was to make the cars essentialy 2 story with doors and platforms built to unload at the same time without having to go upstairs for passage. Had to point out that because of freight train clearances stations would need to be separate from the main tracks.
Pointed out that extending platforms probably would be less expensive but solving that for CUS is ? ?
"Metra is requiring that whatever design is chosen must have increased seating capacity. In addition, the interior design must allow for “the most efficient passenger flow possible.” The commuter railway also seeks alternative rail car designs to address passenger needs more effectively than the existing bi-level gallery cars."
The 60+ year-old gallery design won't work. Otherwise they could just buy more. I imagine the Bombardier double deck design or the Siemens Desiro HC design will be considered, among others.
charlie hebdoOtherwise they could just buy more. I imagine the Bombardier double deck design or the Siemens Dersiro HC design will be considered
Predominantly the Bombardier cars are bilevel but they have a short central level with seats on it on the end of each car. The really nice thing about the GO Transit Bombardier Cars is going upstairs or downstairs when traveling between cars is easier because of the design. Entry and exit I feel is a LOT faster than the Metra Gallery Cars as they have two sets of double doors on the lower floor and on the upper floor they display the next station stop prior to the train stopping so that time is used efficiently for folks to gather their things and start to head downstairs. The seating is also varied some seats face each other with tables between them others just face forwards. Haven't checked out the restrooms on them yet though. They are definitely an upgrade from the Metra cars and you can sit in those Bombardier seats a lot longer and be comfortable vs the current Metra design.
blue streak 1The idea was to make the cars essentially 2 story with doors and platforms built to unload at the same time without having to go upstairs for passage.
It's been done.
Has the added advantage you could run both express and local service on one track, too -- or slip empty consists right past a string of incoming trains. You'd have to figure out how to make slam-door arrangements work, though, as by definition this is a compartment type arrangement...
IIRC, double-deck cars with full double platform levels were run in France too but I don't have a picture.
Can anyone provide info on the MBTA's Kawasaki bilevel coaches that have a 182 capacity. Is that with 3 & 2 seating? Car photo's show two single dors on the ends.
Also on the Bombardier NJT bilevel cars which show (on Wikipedia) a capacity of 132-142 with or without restrooms.
Also on the VRE Kawasaki bilevel coaches that have a 132 capacity
Electroliner 1935 Can anyone provide info on the MBTA's Kawasaki bilevel coaches that have a 182 capacity. Is that with 3 & 2 seating? Car photo's show two single dors on the ends. Also on the Bombardier NJT bilevel cars which show (on Wikipedia) a capacity of 132-142 with or without restrooms. Also on the VRE Kawasaki bilevel coaches that have a 132 capacity
CSSHEGEWISCHMetra's gallery bi-levels have capacities of 155 to 162 passengers.
Which I think is a little fradulent. That may represent, how Metra counts the seats on the car but what is the actual capacity as far as passengers on a Metra Gallery Car.? You have limited floor space for standees because of the open gallery design on the second floor. Additionally, some of those bench seats they count as seating for two, probably closer to 1.5 people with half a person overhanging the aisle. They get away with that because they are bench seats.
CMStPnP CSSHEGEWISCH Metra's gallery bi-levels have capacities of 155 to 162 passengers. Which I think is a little fradulent. That may represent, how Metra counts the seats on the car but what is the actual capacity as far as passengers on a Metra Gallery Car.? You have limited floor space for standees because of the open gallery design on the second floor. Additionally, some of those bench seats they count as seating for two, probably closer to 1.5 people with half a person overhanging the aisle. They get away with that because they are bench seats.
CSSHEGEWISCH Metra's gallery bi-levels have capacities of 155 to 162 passengers.
True, most gallery cars on Metra seat 146. The bench seats do hold two average- sized people with no overhang. Thankfully, Metra has realized that the ~70 year old design is horribly out of date in multiple ways.
The only advantage of gallery cars over the standard European, Go Transit, NJT ral double-decker configuration (also now the standard in Israel) is in ticket collection and inspection. If METRA goes to a bsrrier station system, where tickets are read on entry and leaving, like most rapid transit systems worldwide today, and uniform on Israel Railways, the full efficiency of real double-deckers with level boarding and good pzssenger flow, dwell times would be reduced, exisdting employees would be used more efficiently, schedules speeded up, and imiprovemenet in frequencies possible at minimum costs.
A barrier system would be difficult to implement on a system that consists primarily of low-level platforms. There would also be a requirement to install and maintain ticket vending machines on the entire system. Labor contracts may need to be renegotiated. I, like Clemenceau, have little faith in human nature so I think that the honor system is a terrible idea.
For Metra, the cure may be more expensive than the disease.
charlie hebdoTrue, most gallery cars on Metra seat 146. The bench seats do hold two average- sized people with no overhang. Thankfully, Metra has realized that the ~70 year old design is horribly out of date in multiple ways.
The flip side of the coin is Bombardier says they can carry 360 people in their cars if you count the room for standees. I don't know about anyone else but the mental picture I get in my head is that clown car they have at the local circus where they have like 12 clowns get out of a car that can really only hold 2-3 due to it's size. So I think the 360 is probably a stretch as well.
daveklepperThe only advantage of gallery cars over the standard European, Go Transit, NJT ral double-decker configuration (also now the standard in Israel) is in ticket collection and inspection. If METRA goes to a bsrrier station system, where tickets are read on entry and leaving, like most rapid transit systems worldwide today, and uniform on Israel Railways, the full efficiency of real double-deckers with level boarding and good pzssenger flow, dwell times would be reduced, exisdting employees would be used more efficiently, schedules speeded up, and imiprovemenet in frequencies possible at minimum costs.
They do not use a barrier system in Dallas-Ft.Worth TRE line which the market area is approx 6.8 million. All platforms open to the public and the tickets are dispensed by machine. The machines on the train platform have a yellow light on them that flashes if they are inoperative or malfunctioning.
In my view this is kind of a decision that needs to be made by the transit system owners. Which is more important ridership and efficiency of operation or collecting every last nickle and dime in fare. To me the former is the no-brainer answer as transit systems will never pay for themselves..........so why spend all this money in a vain attempt to get the last nickle and dime?
Germany uses a similar system to Dallas and Fort Worth but you have to scan the ticket while getting on the transit vehicle for light rail and busses. Same for DFW busses. DFW just does not do it for light or heavy rail.
I think you are very correct. Ridership and efficiency are more important than collecting every dime.
On local transit (S-Bahn and U-Bahn) in German cities, the penalty for "riding black" (without a valid, validated ticket) is a stiff fine of 60 Euros if you are caught in a random check onboard. An honor system with teeth works.
That is basically way Jerusalem Light Rail works. Just todayy I boarded a very crowded light rail car, and my pass holder was handed from one person to another and was scanned and returned directly to me. When I boarded a youngster seated by the door gave up a seat for me.
But the railroad uses barriers. Cannot board or enter the platform without a valid ticket,
New Jerusalem buses have three doors on single-body (4-wheel) buses and five doors (three in the front body and two in the rear body) in articulateds. With multiple ticket scanners. Cash fare for one ride without transfer can still be paid to the bus operator (but not light rail.)
What they will do in the Tel Aviv Metro will be interesting.
charlie hebdoOn local transit (S-Bahn and U-Bahn) in German cities, the penalty for "riding black" (without a valid, validated ticket) is a stiff fine of 60 Euros if you are caught in a random check onboard. An honor system with teeth works.
Not saying this to be funny but I accidently rode the public transit in Rome once without proper validation and man the Conductor made this huge scene with shouting and waving his arms in the air......then fined me. Very embarrassing. The Germans will just do the transaction quietly and be on their way. So if I had to compare the two......Italian system is far worse. :(
That was quiet for an Italian
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