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Bowen Rail GT46CU-ACe Gen III

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, March 15, 2023 4:43 AM

BriabaBoodu

I'm surprised the experts here haven't chimed in on the numerous issues that BRC is having with the locos. From having to now run 3 locomotives per trains instead of 2 due to traction motor overheating and running trains with in excess of 20 wagons on the back not loaded. 

Lots of issues with this class and the outlook from an engineering perspective isn't good. Let alone the die hard EMD railfan point of view. 

 

As I understand it the problem is that the motors are just too small. I don't think heating is a problem for the AC motors, just that the tractive effort is too small. Motors of the same general type are used in the electric locomotives used in coal traffic, but it is possible that two electric locomotives might not be able to haul these trains between Collinsville and Pring. The Collinsville line is much older than the Goonyella lines which were built for heavy coal traffic, although the grade in question has been rebuilt with a better alignment.

I think that one of the reasons for using the higher powered diesel locomotives was to increase the speed of diesel hauled trains, particularly on electrified lines Magnetic Rail (the former One Rail) do use these units on electrified lines, where there is concern that diesel hauled trains slow the electrically hauled trains and reduce the overall throughput.

The problem for Bowen Rail is easily solved, by adding an additional locomotive to each train, as they are already doing.

To take up BDA's point about the height of Australian Domestic locomotives, I have photos of two pairs of the C44ACi units operating as yard switchers in Rio Tinto'sCape Lambert yard. While they aren't as tall as the ore cars, they did a good job switching when there was a shortage of locomotives. They were not actually coupled to Dash 9s or ES44s in normal operation.

I realise I missed BDA's joke earlier about the Danish MZ3s (JT30C type) being "grey imports". In fact, only one (1437) was painted silver-grey in Denmark, the remainder arriving in faded DSB black with red ends.

Despite the disappointment with the Bowen Rail units, it appears that Progress Rail is outselling UGL, the Wabtec licensee by maybe two to one this year, if the latest unconfirmed developments are correct. QUBE have 12 Progress and 5 UGL units on order now.

Peter

BDA
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Posted by BDA on Wednesday, March 15, 2023 5:49 AM

I'm curious to see if UGL will continue offering FDL powered C44ACis after the Evo 12 powered version starts production .

I have a pic somewhere of the 5 series traction motors for the first one . I'm guessing performance will be similar to te C44ACis .

 

BDA
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Posted by BDA on Thursday, March 16, 2023 4:38 AM

Probably too late now but could Progress have used larger diametre traction motors and wheelsets ?

And or could shorter traction motor gearing help their situation ?

Also did someone quote the 430 KN at 23 km/h ? That sounds slightly fast and low for something that has a starting tractive effort of 600 Kn .

I did read a long time ago about the SD60MAC testing and how they could get down on their knees (very low speeds) for reasonably long periods of time . I was under the impression that AC traction motors are a lot less temperature sensitive than the DC versions .     

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Posted by JC.FNQ on Thursday, March 16, 2023 7:59 AM

BDA
The win would have been a standard gauge railway from Carmichael to port built to US domestic standards.

While that would be appropriate in a case like the Weipa/Comalco rail system (where it is totally detached from any other network, therefore not requiring inter-operability, or disruption to local lines), in this case A: there was resistance to their initial plan of a SG link to the Port (rejected, resulting in a requirement to connect to the existing network); and B: there was substantial political resistance to Adani's proposal, both on the mine approval, and to the mining industry as a whole from the State Government.

As such, the preferred option would have been for them to funnel their traffic through the existing Newlands system (justifying the Business Case), electrify their end, then agree to a hook and tow arrangement without buying their own dedicated locomotives.

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Posted by Tubby Lunchbox on Friday, March 24, 2023 3:02 AM

BDA


NRs use oil filled gear cases .



Really? I worked on them from brand new untill 1998. They did have pinion problems, but the total failures would have been no worse than what DL & 82 Class had with them  chucking couterweights out the side of the block of their 12-710's.

BDA


"Fun" fact , LDPs are at Intermodal because they don't have ECP like most/all northern coal units do .



For a short time, they all had pass through cables & there was plenty of 93/TT/90 Combos running around, but right now, most of the 90's are back together as trios, and they do look cool doing 100km/h

Also, who is "Intermodal" that bought the LDP's? Aurizon or PacNat?

Cheers,
Tubby Lunchbox.

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Posted by Tubby Lunchbox on Friday, March 24, 2023 3:32 AM

M636C


I am assured by Progress Rail that the GT46C-ACe Gen II has two Mitsubishi inverters, one per truck.



That is likely a Gen One, Progress Rail's website shows pictures of LDP Class aka GT46C-ACe Gen One as Gen Two's, so do you believe who you were talking to on the phone, or their Website? On SG Lines, Everything except GWB Class are Gen One.

SD70MAC, SD80MAC, GT46MAC & GT46PAC's all use two Siemens GTO, Liquid Cooled Inverters, one at each end powering each bogie.

SD70ACe, SD80ACe & GT46C-ACe Gen One replace those GTO Inverters with IGBT Inverters, I thought you would know are they still Siemens or are they Mitsubishi?

M636C


However these inverters consist each of three separate devices, each device producing a single phase of the three phase inverter supply. I first observed this on an Aurizon 4100 (GT42CU-ACe) under construction at EDI Maryborough, where when the cover plate was removed on the forward Mitsubishi inverter, the three separate devices could be clearly seen.



You need to have a brush up course on how DC is Inverted back to AC.

Cheers,
Tubby Lunchbox.

BDA
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Posted by BDA on Friday, March 24, 2023 4:52 PM

Bully for you .

I remember looking at the first two taking shape at the then Gonads BMD . Quite a few of us took them brand new out of the BMD shops for their first shake down runs to Telarah . 
I mentioned pinions as being an early issue rather than the traction motors themselves .

12 710s , I never lunched one but a couple of my work mates did . I don't recall DLs having the issue .

I didn't ever see an LDP with run through ECP cables , If they had the extra cables why would you bother removing them ?

And yes I've had Siemens inverters die . Early one morning I was leaving Port Hedland and the middle unit , a 90MAC-H , spat an inverter . Isolated it and continued on . 

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Posted by M636C on Friday, March 24, 2023 7:41 PM

That is likely a Gen One, Progress Rail's website shows pictures of LDP Class aka GT46C-ACe Gen One as Gen Two's, so do you believe who you were talking to on the phone, or their Website? On SG Lines, Everything except GWB Class are Gen One.

The inforfation came from a Progress Rail engineer at an AUSRAIL exhibition.

I wrote this up in an article and submitted the text to Progress and it was approved. The locomotive I was describing was a GWB. The GWB has two inverters, one above the other at the front of the locomotive. GWAs have two separate inverters, one at each end of the locomotive.

The locomotive I described with the three separate inverters, one for each phase, at each end was a 4100 under construction at EDI Maryborough (when the road was still public and you could walk up to a new loco under construction.) The GT46C ACe Gen I have similar inverters but of higher capacity. When the covers are fitted, you can't see the three separate inverters.

On the GWB, you can see that there are three separate inverters because the covers are a different design.

Peter

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Friday, March 24, 2023 11:02 PM

"The locomotive I described with the three separate inverters, one for each phase"

That sounds more like three half bridges which is the typical way to make a three phase inverter. A single phase inverter is composed of two half bridges thus makinga full bridge. Going from GTO Thyristors to IGBTs greatly simplified inverter design, but the lower current capacity of the IGBTs pretty much dictated the use of separate inverters fior each traction motor. Based on publicly available data, locomotive sized SiCFETs are still a bit in the future. SiCFET inverters could be small enough to enable mounting directly on the motor.

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Posted by bogie_engineer on Saturday, March 25, 2023 8:25 AM

Siemens and then EMD always referred to them as "phase modules" rather than calling them inverters. The combination of three phase modules were called the inverter.

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Saturday, March 25, 2023 3:50 PM

Makes sense, with the inverter supplying power to three motors, the individual phase modules must have been large. With the low maximum switching possible with GTO thyristors, there isn't as much of a need for a very low inductance connection on the DC link between the modules.

Automotive inverters are trending towards having all six of the IGBTs or FETs in one package.

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