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More DC-to-AC for NS.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, July 29, 2024 3:58 PM

YoHo1975
Wait, if they are getting new cabs, then they are presumably NOT getting the Gull wings...and are therefore not to ATSF specs anymore. 

No, the gull wings are gone along with everything else forward of the alternator. Even so, it's still former BNSF. This past Saturday we had an open house at the depot in DeLand, Florida, marking the completion of SunRail's northern extension. On display was a GP40 rebuilt so many times it's barely recognizable as having been built for Penn Central in 1968. Even so, a remnant of the great mistake of '68 is still with us.

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Posted by BDA on Monday, July 29, 2024 12:48 AM

Do the ET44ACs have isolated cabs or isolated engine/alternator ?

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Monday, July 29, 2024 12:07 AM

One can see this by the way on the NSDash9 Facebook page. He has a picture up of four new AC44C6M's, including two of the three BNSF units delivered so far. No gull wings anymore. 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Sunday, July 28, 2024 9:37 PM

Wait, if they are getting new cabs, then they are presumably NOT getting the Gull wings...and are therefore not to ATSF specs anymore. 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Sunday, July 28, 2024 6:50 PM

They do get new cabs during rebuilding (not all GE rebuilds have done so, such as UP's earlier orders for modernized GE's).

I don't know the particulars of GE's design, but it's the equivalent of whatever they're doing with new production like ET44AC's.

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Posted by BDA on Sunday, July 28, 2024 6:13 PM

Has anything been done to fit isolated cabs to these Dash 9 AC rebuilds .

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, July 28, 2024 5:16 PM

Of note: The first of 25 former BNSF Dash-9s have been rebuilt into AC44C6Ms for and delivered to NS. Although built after the merger they were done to ATSF specs so, in a broad way, a piece of the Santa Fe will power the Thoroughbred.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, April 29, 2024 8:48 PM

Leo_Ames
They only need the heavy mechanical overhaul...

And a hot plate. And a microwave. And a recliner with heat and massage. It's nice to be T&E in Canada, eh?

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Sunday, April 28, 2024 5:53 PM

Yeah, they've been heading south not for rebuild but for component recovery and scrapping. I do wonder about those Norfolk Southern SD70ACU cast offs and if they still might not figure into CPR/KCS plans down the road when they go locomotive shopping. If Progress Rail has held on to them, the job is halfway done to prepare them for service where as CPR/KCS would've been starting from step 1 with what they're now scrapping.

They only need the heavy mechanical overhaul (and chasing some gremlins) that NS deferred to get them online quickly, in order to turn them into fully rebuilt SD70ACU's. Where as what's being scrapped now not only is high mileage and in need of a full mechanical overhaul, but also would've needed the ACU conversion to also be performed (new cab, new electrical system, new inverters, etc.).

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, April 7, 2024 8:45 PM

Looks like CPKC has given up on further SD90 rebuilds: https://youtu.be/uj2awjWoApc?si=vwFWGXs693UodC63

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Posted by BDA on Friday, February 9, 2024 4:03 AM

My money would be on the SD90MAC/SD70ACU conversion .

The word on the street I hear is that the Dash 9/AC4400 type conversions sometimes don't go so well . Particularly if the later cabs are fitted non isolated .

"SD70ACU" has the best of the 70ACe internals and isolated cab - plus the bigger traction motors and fuel tank of the 90MAC . 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, February 5, 2024 10:38 AM

Leo_Ames
 Rumor mill is saying that more CPR SD70ACU's are planned for 2024.

I have zero insider information on either types of rebuilds. My educated guess is the cost for either will be almost the same. A running Dash-9's book value is likely higher than a derelict SD90 and since it's going for a rebuild it doesn't matter. Ergo, selling the Dash-9s for the higher price and keeping the SD90s for a potential rebuild makes sense.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Sunday, February 4, 2024 12:31 PM

D.Carleton
Leo_Ames
They did anticipate merger efficiencies and reactivating stored power pushing out the need for new acquisitions for several years (along with presumably the need for putting the ex UP SD90's through the ACU program anytime soon).

 Supposedly CP had picked up maybe 40 SD9043s from UP a couple of years ago. Outside of one report the story goes cold. Do you have any more intel?

Rumor mill is saying that more CPR SD70ACU's are planned for 2024.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, January 8, 2024 1:37 PM

blue streak 1
My thought about surplus DC parts was especially traction motors.  What are the different DC traction motor models that are being replaced by AC?

For Dash-9 rebuilds to AC traction all TMs will be from the 752 family. And even though NS proved a DC traction motor "roller blade" truck could be modified for AC motors they've decided on new trucks for the rebuilds. 752 TMs are still quite numerous for now and should have at least another healthy decade before there is a supply issue. As an aside, the one non-GE/Wabtec DC-to-AC rebuild (AC44C6CF) used third-party inverters and TMs. To the best of my knowledge, and I'd love to hear from someone who's had their face in there to see, those TMs were drop in replacements for the 752's. Whilst not a total game changer it does open new possibilities for older locomotives. Imagine a Dash-8 to AC rebuild.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, January 8, 2024 1:24 PM

BaltACD
With all the AC engines CSX had purchased I was surprised when they bought so man ES44DC's.  To my ground level, not board level mind - it didn't make much sense, though it may have made cents.

It is definitely not for me to tell you that it takes an act of congress and an act of god to change the paradigm of railroad management. Even 20 years ago the bigs saw AC traction as power for coal trains and DC for everything else. Since then the maintenance costs of AC over DC more than justified their universal adoption and it hasn't hurt that the cost of AC hardware has continued to decrease.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, January 7, 2024 10:45 PM

My thought about surplus DC parts was especially traction motors.  What are the different DC traction motor models that are being replaced by AC?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, January 7, 2024 8:51 PM

With all the AC engines CSX had purchased I was surprised when they bought so man ES44DC's.  To my ground level, not board level mind - it didn't make much sense, though it may have made cents.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, January 7, 2024 8:11 PM

BaltACD
GE ES DC engines are approaching or have already past the 10 year mark so rebuilding is not that far into the future. 

Using the Dash-9s as a template the first pair of rebuilds were 20 years old when they got their inverters. The locomotives following average 22-23 years old when they get their rebuild. If they stick to this pattern the ES locos may see something by the end of this decade.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, January 6, 2024 3:19 PM

D.Carleton
 
blue streak 1
Can we suspect that with all the DC to AC traction work that rebuilding parts unique to DC traction has completely tanked? 

There were over 1300 ES40/44DC variants built. There are also hundreds of Dash-9s still running around so the DC traction spares business should be healthy for at least another decade. When the ES44DCs start coming in for their AC rebuild then the clock will be ticking for the GE DC traction parts' market.

GE ES DC engines are approaching or have already past the 10 year mark so rebuilding is not that far into the future.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, January 6, 2024 1:21 PM

blue streak 1
Can we suspect that with all the DC to AC traction work that rebuilding parts unique to DC traction has completely tanked?

There were over 1300 ES40/44DC variants built. There are also hundreds of Dash-9s still running around so the DC traction spares business should be healthy for at least another decade. When the ES44DCs start coming in for their AC rebuild then the clock will be ticking for the GE DC traction parts' market.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, January 6, 2024 12:56 PM

Can we suspect that with all the DC to AC traction work that rebuilding parts unique to DC traction has completely tanked?

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, January 6, 2024 10:43 AM

And now it appears CN has picked up 60 ex-BNSF Dash-9s for AC rebuild.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, December 28, 2023 10:08 PM

Speaking of those ex NS SD70ACU's, I've inquired on Loconotes a couple of times if those are still intact but never got an answer. Progress has been scrapping large numbers of power (including many UP SD9043MAC's), but the fate of these has me curious given their ACU rebuilding.

While still in need of a heavy overhaul on the engine and such (which originally was deferred by NS to get them online as quickly as possible), they strike me as well positioned for having a future given the ACU rebuild compared to the scores of well worn SD70MAC's, SD60's, and such that Progress is cutting up.

I'd be interested to know if Progress Rail thinks similarly and has held on to these in the hope of marketing them to a customer like Canadian Pacific that wants to finish the job that NS started (which makes perfect sense to me, but I still wouldn't be surprised to hear that they've all but parted out and scrapped).

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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, December 28, 2023 12:16 PM

Leo_Ames
Outside of what's already known about acquiring 40 ex UP SD9043MAC's from Progress Rail in 2021 (some say from Union Pacific, but most reports state Progress Rail), the only concrete thing that I can add is that a handful were reactivated and have seen service for CPR (Mostly it seems on work trains).

That's about all I've heard, too. So the new CPKC has parted with 44 Dash-9s and may be sitting on a few dozen SD90/43s for a potential rebuild. Oddly, NS gave up 66 SD70ACUs that no one seems interested in.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, December 27, 2023 3:03 PM

Outside of what's already known about acquiring 40 ex UP SD9043MAC's from Progress Rail in 2021 (some say from Union Pacific, but most reports state Progress Rail), the only concrete thing that I can add is that a handful were reactivated and have seen service for CPR (Mostly it seems on work trains). Linked below is someone's picture showing one of these at work.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/821722/

For non-concrete information that I've seen, there's been some debate at various places that I've seen on whether or not these were even intended as SD70ACU rebuild fodder. While I think most believe that CPR was eyeing expanding the roster, some say that CPR got a great deal on these and picked them up primarily to cannibalize with no serious intentions of rebuilding them to ACU standards.

Lastly, like I said I swear I saw on Loconotes that two or three of these have been cut up (presumably stripped clean of useful parts for the SD70ACU's if accurate). But without digging into the archive, don't take my word on this since I could be misremembering.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, December 27, 2023 9:04 AM

Leo_Ames
They did anticipate merger efficiencies and reactivating stored power pushing out the need for new acquisitions for several years (along with presumably the need for putting the ex UP SD90's through the ACU program anytime soon).

Supposedly CP had picked up maybe 40 SD9043s from UP a couple of years ago. Outside of one report the story goes cold. Do you have any more intel?

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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, December 26, 2023 9:00 AM

rdamon

The latest grab bag on the VRF channel shows 23 former BNSF C44-9Ws with KCS patches on the move in Elkhart IN.

Saw that. We know that ultimately they become rebuild fodder. Will any see service before rebuilding?

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Posted by rdamon on Sunday, December 24, 2023 7:56 PM

The latest grab bag on the VRF channel shows 23 former BNSF C44-9Ws with KCS patches on the move in Elkhart IN.

 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Sunday, December 24, 2023 4:54 PM

They did anticipate merger efficiencies and reactivating stored power pushing out the need for new acquisitions for several years (along with presumably the need for putting the ex UP SD90's through the ACU program anytime soon).

But to quickly cut dozens of running Dash 9's, even if they were bought primarily to pay back horsepower hours owed to other roads, surprises me a tad.

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