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GMO RR #1900 Built by Ingalls Shipbuilding type S-4 in 1946

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, December 23, 2022 9:58 PM

sswcharlie

Hi, Samfp1943

Thanks for the info.  You were very lucky tp see the loco many times.  In those days not many cameras around like today.

Would any of the trucking depots in those days beside the railway tracks?  Any chance a local truckie would have taken photos out of their yard etc, maybe switching. They may also know of a local who was a railroad photographer.      The loco spent time in Iselin TN and did a daily 'local run' down to Tupelo and other days to Louisville.

Merry Christmas from New Zealand

12/21/2022{ THe Yankee's call this day, 'Festivus'; some NY Politician made it up(?)Laugh       Most folks these days, are very satisfied to Wish, ALL, A Merry Christmas !  Bow

Anyway; back to the subject at hand....I grew-up in the West Tennessee, City of Memphis...I am somewhat familiar with Jackson, Tn., and that area.    But your mention of Iselin, Tn. was a head-scratcher....

In 1988. THe GM&O became part of the Illinois Central RR[nee: ICGRR].   The line South from Jackson was sold out to a point in Corinth,Ms. {line was then operated as a short line rr.]... Again, in 1988; The line North of Jackson,Tn. went to ICRR(Fulton,Ky to Centralia,IL., and then towards Jackson,Tn.)...The Norfolk Southern (NSRR) was apparently,(?) going to use the ' part' (former; 'Gee MO') to 'build a connecting route to Birmingham, Al. [via, Corinth,Ms. area] (?)  A 'deal that apparently, did not work out for them(?)...

  But, I digress; The GM&O's, former, pre-1988, Jackson,Tn. area railroad shops were, in fact, named The "Iselin Shops"..

We (this FORUM) used to have a regular poster; IIRC, who lives(-ed?) in the Jackson,Tn. area..     He might,possibly, shead a little, more light on the questions you asked, {re: 'GeeMo' RR. in Jackson,Tn. ??}

So..Merry Christmas,(& Boxing Day(?), and a very Happy New Year!!

12/27/2022  Another P.S.  While 'surfing' on the 'Net: Found another website" Mississippi Rails {Mississipi Rails History and Heritage} Linked @https://www.msrailroads.com/GM&O.htm

Scroll down and there are a couple of shots of #1900; I had not seen before...One at the Mobile area, and another (from a high-rear view); it  shows the rear details of the #1900's car body, and passenger-style,rear- end detail...

 

 

Your Forum coprrespondent, from Kansas !! Smile, Wink & Grin

 

 

 


 

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Posted by sswcharlie on Friday, December 23, 2022 5:12 PM

Hi Samfp1943

Thanks for the info.  You were very lucky tp see the loco many times.  In those days not many cameras around like today.

Would any of the trucking depots in those days beside the railway tracks?  Any chance a local truckie would have taken photos out of their yard etc, maybe switching. They may also know of a local who was a railroad photographer.      The loco spent time in Iselin TN and did a daily 'local run' down to Tupelo and other days to Louisville.

Merry Christmas from New Zealand

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Posted by sswcharlie on Friday, December 23, 2022 5:04 PM

Hi Overmod

The link is kool.  Thanks for that.  Lots to follow up on that.

Charles

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 22, 2022 7:07 PM

For some reason, Google is intentionally blanking access to the reference.  Go here:

https://findingaids.library.upenn.edu/records/ISM_ISM.BOWES

Click the 'contact us' link to find out what's happening with access to the special collections -- it was shut down during the pandemic scare and I haven't been informed scholarly access has been resumed.

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Posted by sswcharlie on Thursday, December 22, 2022 6:32 PM

Hi

Have downloaded the pdf , most interesting.

Trying to locate the ISM site is it the   Institutee of Suppl Management? tried search but nothing ccoming up

Thankyou

 

Charles

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, December 22, 2022 9:09 AM

sswcharlie

Hi samfp1943

Love your comments on the Ingalls 4-S.   Can you email me on     swchuck (at ) gmail.com

Would like to hear some of your experiences with the loco.

I live in New Zealand away from the action.  Is the article in Trains available online?

Thankyou

Charles Harris

 

    sswcharlie;

  As to the information on the GM&O RR's #1900; The only diesel railroad unit to be built by Ingalls Shipbuilders in Pascagoula, Ms.

My personal experiences with it; were as an observant railroad fan, and my job as an OTR truck driver, regularly, managed to put me in it's normal areas of operations back then. (Time was before the GM&O  RR was to become part of the Illinois Central RR (morfphed into the ICG RR). Sigh 

The following website is an on-line magazine, and has interests in the American Gulf Coast and adjacent region:  It also contains an interesting, set of construction details/photo, and events in the 'life' GM&O's #1900.   Also noted; a couple of Wikipedia sites (normal details, & precautions to be observed)   for Ingalls Shipbuilding, and their 4-S Diesel Locomotive.

Here is the website I mentioned: Gulf Live.com @

https://www.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-living/2011/06/ingalls-built_locomotive_serve.html

Hope this will give you some more info! Thumbs UpThumbs Up  Whistling 

[/quote]

12/21/2022   P.S. To sswcharlie Charles;

   The magazine article in my post {ie:Gulf Live.com} In fact does mention the 'accident' with GM&O #1900 in the City of Houston,Ms. 

 The same article mentions  some additional references, as well as individuals with the GM&O Historical Society. (see website@ https://gmohs.org/    Also, the article mentions a collection of memorabilia at the Library of the City of Pascagoula,Ms.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 22, 2022 7:26 AM

The Ingalls passenger-unit information is in the Bowes collection at the ISM in Philadelphia.  There is a finding aid for it available online (google Thomas D. Bowes collection) that will guide you to the correct box and folder... once the pandemic scare is fully ended and they resume access to the museum collections. 

I don't think this had advanced to the stage Kiefer would have mentioned it in the 1947 report "Practical Evaluation of Railroad Motive Power", which you can access online through HathiTrust if you don't mind reading it page-by-page online, or download a PDF here..  I don't recall Kiefer making mention of free-piston engines, either, and that was a hot potential development right about the time Ingalls would have been seriously peddling their alternative.  You will note after reading this that the results on the S2a poppet-valve Niagara were not quite ready at press time; a gauge of how quickly motive-power needs changed in the late '40s is that this subsequent report was never made, and the S2a itself retired very shortly thereafter... 

Incidentally, the substantiation for a J3a going over 161mph wheel speed on test is in this survey.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, December 22, 2022 7:21 AM

Ingalls has been a lot more successful as a shipbuilder.  They are one of two builders of Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, the main surface combatant of the US Navy.  Bath Iron Works in Maine is the other.

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, December 22, 2022 4:58 AM

sswcharlie

Hi CSSHEGEWISCH

 

Excuse my ignorance but I am not aware in railroad terms what a    'DSG'    entry is.  Can you tell me what it means and where I would locate.

Thanks

Charles Harris

 

"DSG" is the abbreviation for "Diesel Spotter's Guide" a brief but comprhensive guide to North American Diesel locomotives, written by Jerry Pinkepank and published by Kalmbach in the mid 1960s. The entry on the Ingalls unit briefly described other proposed units intended to be built by Ingalls.

Peter

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Posted by sswcharlie on Wednesday, December 21, 2022 11:43 PM

Hi

 

Do you have a date of the derailement of the Ingalls 4-S in the middle of Houston MS.

Thanks

Charles Harris

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Posted by sswcharlie on Wednesday, December 21, 2022 11:37 PM

Hi  Overmod

Most interesting ccomments.  A couple of questions:

1:    " two 1000hp inline-6 Superior engines driving the axles mechanically through a Bowes drive -- drawings survive in a museum in Philadelphia"

Are you able to provide a contact link for me to the museum.  I would like to see the drawings etc.  Intriguing.

 

 

 2:     "in a lighter construction than any of the late-Forties competition (see Kiefer's 1947 study of motive power for the different alternatives at that time)."

Does the Kiefer study have much on the Ingalls ? Where is Kiefer study online?

Thankyou

Charles Harris

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    January 2015
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Posted by sswcharlie on Wednesday, December 21, 2022 10:57 PM

Hi CSSHEGEWISCH

 

Excuse my ignorance but I am not aware in railroad terms what a    'DSG'    entry is.  Can you tell me what it means and where I would locate.

Thanks

Charles Harris

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 39 posts
Posted by sswcharlie on Wednesday, December 21, 2022 10:54 PM

Hi samfp1943

Love your comments on the Ingalls 4-S.   Can you email me on     swchuck (at ) gmail.com

Would like to hear some of your experiences with the loco.

I live in New Zealand away from the action.  Is the article in Trains available online?

Thankyou

Charles Harris

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,311 posts
Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 10, 2022 2:47 PM

The most spectacular of these would have been the 17A and other passenger designs derived from it.  These would have made 2000 hp from, likely, two 1000hp inline-6 Superior engines driving the axles mechanically through a Bowes drive -- drawings survive in a museum in Philadelphia.  The Bowes-drive configuration was similar in principle to the revived PRR V1 that is documented at the Hagley in Delaware, but of course much less powerful; the V1 would have 4000hp or more per 'drive'.

In principle this acted as a large frame-mounted torque converter, entirely non-contact, that could adjust the comparatively low crankshaft speed of the Superior diesels up to almost arbitrarily high final-drive speed, well above that attainable by a hydrokinetic transmission, and produce high levels of reasonably effective dynamic braking at all speeds, in a lighter construction than any of the late-Forties competition (see Kiefer's 1947 study of motive power for the different alternatives at that time).

Unfortunately the 'first best use' of such a unit would be the crazy high speeds of the immediate postwar years -- speed that became cost-effectively impossible most places with the ICC order imposed after the Naperville wreck.  Some very interesting results might have been produced if 127+mph speeds on many nominally single-track lines had been practicable... but it was not to be.  (And I admit to breathing a little sigh of relief that the temptation did not arise...)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 10, 2022 10:06 AM

The DSG entry for Ingalls also states that Ingalls was ambitious and had a full line of locomotives offered.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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GMO RR #1900 Built by Ingalls Shipbuilding type S-4 in 1946
Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, March 9, 2022 8:25 PM

Featured in an article in (the April 2022 issue of Trains)  'A one off model'  As WWII was winding down after The War...They created a line of diesel locomotives..

      In 1946 they introduced the Model 4-S ; it was unique as a diesel railroad engine. It was to be the first of four models in that group.   It featured a turret- style cab, and its rear-end resembled what could have appeared as a passenger vestibule rear. repleat with windows and a  center door.

 It was powered by a Superior Marine-style Diesel engine rated at 1500HP...Actually, t was supposed to have produced some 1650 HP (?) as an Inline 8 ncylinder engine.  

Here is a link to the list of "S" class engines that were planned, but only the one demonstrator was actually bulit   (see link @ http://hosam.com/ingalls/ing.html  )

GM&O  #1900  was normally maintained at the GM&O Shops at Jackson, Tn.  It worked south from there to as far south as the GM&O/Gulf Coast area(?) [IRC-- Freschetie Yd?| 

In the 1950's (?) while assigned to an MOW Train,# 1900 was derailed and turned over; later repaied, it was placed back in service.

It was placed for sale by Ingalls, and campaigned at several railroads[L&N, Southern,,etc} for sale.  It had no takers, sent back to Ingalls at Pascagoula, Ms,. It was bought for $140,ooo, by GM&O which did a lot lof business with the Ingalls Ship Builders (Pascagoula,Ms.)

     It regularly switched the Yard at Corinth, Ms. where I saw it on a number of occasions.  It was  retired in approx 1965, was offered to the Railroad Museum at Union, Il for $3000. The Ill. Railway Museum was unable to raise that funding, and in 1966 it was sold to Pielete, In Chicago, and scrapped there.

 

 


 

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