BaltACD SD70Dude BaltACD It won't have 99% active use time - unless it can recharge the batteries in a time frame equivalent to pumping fuel into a diesel-electric. Cover it with solar panels? Solar panels lose power generation capacity when it is cloudy. My Holiday Inn Engineering degree leaves me to doubt that solar panels can generate enough 'recharge power' to keep the unit(s) working during long term 'gray days'. There are numerous locations around the country where a Sunny Day is the exception, not the rule. Additionally taggers love 'fresh canvas'; to work solar panels would not like a coat of tagger paint.
SD70Dude BaltACD It won't have 99% active use time - unless it can recharge the batteries in a time frame equivalent to pumping fuel into a diesel-electric. Cover it with solar panels?
BaltACD It won't have 99% active use time - unless it can recharge the batteries in a time frame equivalent to pumping fuel into a diesel-electric.
It won't have 99% active use time - unless it can recharge the batteries in a time frame equivalent to pumping fuel into a diesel-electric.
Cover it with solar panels?
Solar panels lose power generation capacity when it is cloudy.
My Holiday Inn Engineering degree leaves me to doubt that solar panels can generate enough 'recharge power' to keep the unit(s) working during long term 'gray days'. There are numerous locations around the country where a Sunny Day is the exception, not the rule. Additionally taggers love 'fresh canvas'; to work solar panels would not like a coat of tagger paint.
True about efficiency dropping without Sun light. Though this unit will be operating in Sou Cal. So solar panels would work in this regard. Over 300 days of sunshine, or better per annum.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
zugmann SD60MAC9500 LOL.. I would expect a cabless remote unit to be an option in the future. I've used one of those already.
SD60MAC9500 LOL.. I would expect a cabless remote unit to be an option in the future.
I've used one of those already.
What's your verdict on their operation?
MidlandMike BaltACD It won't have 99% active use time - unless it can recharge the batteries in a time frame equivalent to pumping fuel into a diesel-electric. How long is the crew's lunch break?
How long is the crew's lunch break?
We get 25 minutes
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I think the Joule was designed as a 'world locomotive' of sorts, made to fit restrictive loading gage -- compare its external dimensions to, say, a MRS-1. I don't see it as dramatically ugly, just unfamiliar, in the way a class 66 is.
There is no particular reason why fairly rapid recharge (on the order of 20 minutes or so between 20 to 80%) could not be arranged. If you have sufficient current capability, multiple connections to cell strings in the battery, and really good smart cooling. I am not of the opinion the Joule is equipped for the full level of cooling to do this repeatedly, although it certainly could be (with circulating liquid cooling and bigger radiator capacity) so I suspect the idea is an extended runtime followed by off-peak recharge over a longer interval, something I suspect many types of switching or terminal operation could be made to support.
For extended 24-hour service you'd need distributed charging infrastructure, or some sort of onboard charging arrangement (if not in fact a full hybrid). If that is not clear to Progress/EMD now, it will be in time.
SD60MAC9500LOL.. I would expect a cabless remote unit to be an option in the future.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
SD70Dude My goodness that thing is ugly. Looks like some of the worse Australian or EMD export designs, or perhaps an FM end-cab unit that got squashed. Hopefully its performance will more than make up for that!
My goodness that thing is ugly. Looks like some of the worse Australian or EMD export designs, or perhaps an FM end-cab unit that got squashed.
Hopefully its performance will more than make up for that!
LOL.. I would expect a cabless remote unit to be an option in the future.
That's an appropriate road number for the Joule. Does it double as an available amp/hour meter?
Here's the next customer for the Progress Joule Battery Switcher
Erik_Mag A reliable hybrid commuter lcomotive would make a lot of sense, especially if the batteries were of the type to put out significant power for a minute or so. Two big wins is a potential increase in acceleration and energy saving from regenerative braking. Though it would be nice to have regenerative braking on the cars being hauled as schedule speed is partly defined by how fast trains can be stopped in addition how fast the can be brought up to speed.
A reliable hybrid commuter lcomotive would make a lot of sense, especially if the batteries were of the type to put out significant power for a minute or so. Two big wins is a potential increase in acceleration and energy saving from regenerative braking.
Though it would be nice to have regenerative braking on the cars being hauled as schedule speed is partly defined by how fast trains can be stopped in addition how fast the can be brought up to speed.
Or even a DMUe-Hybrid. Commuters lines would benefit from a setup for local stop commuter service.
Electric autos may have some tie-ins with "renewable" energy sources if there is enough charging infratructure to allow for most autos to be connected to a charging station when not being used. This would allow for the EV's to be used as an adaptive load for the varying output of wind and solar generation.
Fossil fueled generation is shifting to combined cycle gas turbines, which should be pretty clean.
Hybrid switching and commuter locomotives can get a significant fuel saving from energy stored with regenrative braking. In addition, by using the energy stored energy to smooth out power demand from the prime mover may also result in further reductions in harmful emissions.
Excuse my cynicism but it appears that the only thing that electric automobiles, buses, locomotives, etc. will accomplish is to shift the source of pollution from the individual vehicles to the powerplant (somewhere else).
Don't know how it's operating controls are arranged and implemented, one thing that should not be a complaint - it should load instantly when commanded to.
SD60MAC9500 Quote from the linked article " It is expected to be used (at last) in commercial service in southern California’s Los Angeles Basin. Diesel engines are in wide use there and the region has horrible air quality as a result, the worst in the country." Yeah it's not the millions of personal vehicles burning gasoline... It's the dozens of switch engines in the LA Basin.....
Quote from the linked article
" It is expected to be used (at last) in commercial service in southern California’s Los Angeles Basin. Diesel engines are in wide use there and the region has horrible air quality as a result, the worst in the country."
Yeah it's not the millions of personal vehicles burning gasoline... It's the dozens of switch engines in the LA Basin.....
Yeah, that made me laugh also! Give me a break.
Erik_MagA reliable hybrid commuter lcomotive would make a lot of sense, especially if the batteries were of the type to put out significant power for a minute or so.
Deceleration 'map' for a commuter train is determined with a maximum 'safe' rate -- you'll probably remember the design rates for BART; I think current recommendations are lower at something like 1.5fpsps. This is something that should be easily accommodated as 'the reverse of acceleration' by eight axles with extended-range dynamic. The cost of putting 'energy-recovering' braking on the car wheels would be a large percentage of actually motoring them; I doubt that the energy recovery and brake pad savings (and reduction of treadwear on locomotive wheels) over the life of the equipment would pay for the capital and maintenance over good blended conventional at the peak decel rate comfortable to passengers.
Interesting page from Rail Propulsion Systems:
https://railpropulsion.com/products/hybrid-energy-storage-systems/
The strings are in 'cans' which self-isolate if anything goes wrong with them, and an annunciator system then points out the ones needing maintenance for service personnel. I do not know if the cans are unwieldy to handle or move on and off the locomotive. Cooling appears to be central ducted air rather than liquid.
Two items of potential interest:
1. They indicate they were working on a zero-emission passenger locomotive to be ready "within six months"
2. (and even more interesting) they are working on a hybrid 'conversion' dor commuter trains, similar in principle to the GE battery locomotive. The diagram next to the picture of 1201 refers to this system, I believe; it provides the 'hybrid' energy storage for a train with 3000hp prime mover. Note the common 1200V bus, probably the 1200V DC-Link bus for AC synthesis...
I'd think Metrolink would move mountains to get grants of financing to use these...
I, too, am glad to see a new life for 999. I was brought in as a consultant in 2008 for the original build of that loco to design the equipment arrangement and then the structural design for the battery racks. The original plan was to use a quantity 60 of GNB 64 volt batteries of the same form factor as the SLS-710 loco starting battery. There were 48 batteries above deck in three racks of 16 each with 12 more below deck where the fuel tank usually sits. I did the design and FEA with a draftsman making the drawings - at that point I left the project and went on to other jobs. They built the racks as I had designed them but then decided to go the 12V battery way, why I don't know. I do know NS wanted to use a 12V battery developed by an offshoot of CAT called the Firefly which wasn't ready at the time. So they ended up making trays holding multiple 12V batteries that fit into the racks designed for the loco starting batteries. The 64V batteries were to be connected in strings of 10 in series to drive chopper modules for traction and accessories.
As far as the Joule, the only info I have gotten from my friends at PR is that this is a project led by Zeit who is part of Progress Rail Brazil.
Dave
Overmod Note there is a similar concern for fuel-efficient switchers. Slow loading is a disaster there, whether to save money or fuel or to reduce emissions.
Note there is a similar concern for fuel-efficient switchers. Slow loading is a disaster there, whether to save money or fuel or to reduce emissions.
This seems to be a near ideal solution for super/ultra capacitors, where the capacitors would be providing the power "right now" while the engines were loading. Lithium batteries intended for portable tools would be another option (high peak power, fast recharge).
Back in the 1960's the Milwaukee was actually stringing up wire on industrial trackage in the Butte and Deer Lodge areas as the electric switchers had instantaneous response to changes in the controller.
The air quality has improved big time in LA from the time of my childhood there up until today..
zugmann999 was sold awhile back. Looks to be in CA now.
Interesting that it's been engineered to use old (or remanufactured) hybrid-car batteries or strings, which is a logical source. The latent worry I'd have is that batteries now 'uneconomically suitable' for hybrid-vehicle cycling might not be suitable for inherently high-drain and then heavy-charge repeat cycling. I guess we'll see if they get it 'right' enough this time around.
creepycrankWhat ever happened to NS battery locomotive No. 9999, Going down the energy trail it was recharged by by NS's steam stationary generating plant fired by coal.
999 was sold awhile back. Looks to be in CA now.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/19/zero-emission-locomotive-999-restored-for-use-in-california/
Paul MilenkovicWas calling the Joule locomotive the "Jouse", a typo or an intentional play-on-words on the slang expression for electric power "juice", as in "give it the juice" meaning switch the electric power back on?
The 999 was another example of "engineers" not knowing quite enough practical railroading about how a switcher is supposed to be used. If you design it as a 'green solution' or a penny-pinching use of alternative or 'waste' energy instead of a high-performance vehicle you will likely fail the same way.
Note there is a similar concern for fuel-efficient switchers. Slow loading is a disaster there, whether to save money or fuel or to reduce emissions. I still wonder why more genset engines aren't built with predictive engine start, so crews 'about to do' a shove can't get additional engines started and up to power notch "just-in-time" to be needed. As I recall even the original built-out massively parallel "genset" locomotive (the Baldwin Essl locomotive that was rebuilt into the first Centipede) was able to be run that way...
What ever happened to NS battery locomotive No. 9999, Going down the energy trail it was recharged by by NS's steam stationary generating plant fired by coal.
Overmod:
Was calling the Joule locomotive the "Jouse", a typo or an intentional play-on-words on the slang expression for electric power "juice", as in "give it the juice" meaning switch the electric power back on?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
With respect to 4.16kVAC charging: I would assume that vacuum contactors would be used to minimize space used. I would also assume that some sort of interlock would be used to prevent the contacts on the plug from being energized when the plug is not firmly seated. The power electronics needed to control charging almost certainly be capable of soft starting and soft stopping to minimize stress on the HV contactors.
My idea with charging battery modules individually does not preclude simultaneous charging, one option is to use multiple cables so that the cable and connector weights are reasonable. Another option is a bus energized at a potential somewhat higher than the maximum possible charge voltage and use individual buck converters to regulate individual charging voltage and current. This would provide one layer of isolation between the battery pack and external HVDC connector.
FWIW, similar issues crop up in data centers running on 380VDC with the batteries floating on the 380VDC bus.
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