There are some other photos of an SDP45 on the City in SP Motive Power Annuals from 1968-1972. By late 1974 they were all in the San Francisco Commute pool (along with 3200 and 3205) where they remained until replaced by Caltrain power in the 1980s.
Amtrak bought all 14 of SP's FP7A units, and five of the boiler-equipped F7B units.
By the late 1960s all of SP's EMD passenger units ended up with 60:17 gearing, except for some of the Es which were delivered with 59:18 gears, all allowing a top speed of around 80 MPH. Most SP divisions had a maximum allowed speed of 75. SP did have some boiler equipped F7 units with 62:15 (65 MPH) gearing, used mainly as passenger helpers on Tehachapi and on the mail trains on the Coast, Shasta and Overland routes.
Once we get the F and E debate settled, we can start on whatever happened to the E1, E2, E3, E4, F1, F2, F4, F5, GP25, GP1, GP2, etc? And will we ever see a SD100?
OvermodDoes this need to be settled with photographic proof?
zardoz Once we get the F and E debate settled, we can start on whatever happened to the E1, E2, E3, E4, F1, F2, F4, F5, GP25, GP1, GP2, etc? And will we ever see a SD100?
IIRC, a few F2's were made between the end of FT production and the start of F3 production. The GP and SD numbers started at 7 since the GP7 and SD7 used the same engine and electrical gear as the F7 (though the SD7 had transition set up for 6 motors instead of 4). The GP18, GP20 and SD24 were the only models of the GP and SD where numbers were based on horsepower, unlike the SW series where the power went above the Six hundred Welded frame era.
Dunno about the SD100.....
CSSHEGEWISCH zardoz Once we get the F and E debate settled, we can start on whatever happened to the E1, E2, E3, E4, F1, F2, F4, F5, GP25, GP1, GP2, etc? And will we ever see a SD100? E1's were owned and operated by ATSF, E2's (all six of them) were jointly owned for the "City of Los Angeles" and "City of San Francisco", E3's were owned by several roads (all small orders) and E4's were owned by SAL.
E5's were the CB&Q's stainless clad Zephyr engines. E6's were the first of the truly 'production' standard passenger engines by EMD.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There are some other photos of an SDP45 on the City in SP Motive Power Annuals from 1968-1972. By late 1974 they were all in the San Francisco Commute pool (along with 3200 and 3205) where they remained until replaced by Caltrain power in the 1980s
I made my first journey.on a train in the USA in late January 1974, on the Coast Starlight from Los Angeles to Oakland. It was hauled by two SDP45s which I photographed on the Cuesta horseshoe curve.
What locomotives replaced these SDP45s on the Coast Starlight in 1974? I had seen SDP40Fs on the Super Chief before leaving Los Angeles.
Peter
More SPD40Fs were delivered in early 1974. The SDP45s were shifted to the Commute Pool in pairs after some modification for quick acceleration. They replaced the FM Trainmasters that had handled most of the rush hour trains. SP went back to EMD for three GP40Ps to make the numbers match.
Amtrak often leased an SP SD45 or SD45T-2 to lead "over the hill" to Sparks after the SDP40Fs became common (SSW9389 was the lead unit one time in March 1974). I never saw that on the Daylight or Starlight, but it may have happened. The FP7s that had been on the Zephyr were re-used on the San Joaquin, introduced in early 1974 with a mix of Santa Fe and repainted SP "Tomato Can" coaches including at least one articulated pair.
D.HearneI see everyone here missed the obvious. The E's never had dynamic brakes. The F's did, That is why the F's were preferred by the western roads for passenger service in the mountains.
To me, and most casual railfans, the number of wheels is the obvious identifier. I've watched trains for over 60 years, and still can't identify dynamic brakes. Dynamic brakes, number of radiator fans (that one can only view from an overpass), all that stuff, I reserve for the aficianados.
D.Hearne I see everyone here missed the obvious. The E's never had dynamic brakes. The F's did, That is why the F's were preferred by the western roads for passenger service in the mountains.
I see everyone here missed the obvious. The E's never had dynamic brakes. The F's did, That is why the F's were preferred by the western roads for passenger service in the mountains.
E8 and E9 could be ordered with DB. E7 and earlier did not have it.
PA's had pretty good DB too, which was a big deal for roads like Santa Fe and Southern Pacific.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
BLS53 To me, and most casual railfans, the number of wheels is the obvious identifier. I've watched trains for over 60 years, and still can't identify dynamic brakes. Dynamic brakes, number of radiator fans (that one can only view from an overpass), all that stuff, I reserve for the aficianados.
On GP60 and older EMD hood units the DB grid is quite obvious, directly above the diesel engine. On other units it is more difficult to identify.
All North American road units built since the early 1980s have DB.
BLS53 D.Hearne I see everyone here missed the obvious. The E's never had dynamic brakes. The F's did, That is why the F's were preferred by the western roads for passenger service in the mountains. To me, and most casual railfans, the number of wheels is the obvious identifier. I've watched trains for over 60 years, and still can't identify dynamic brakes. Dynamic brakes, number of radiator fans (that one can only view from an overpass), all that stuff, I reserve for the aficianados.
SD70Dude D.Hearne I see everyone here missed the obvious. The E's never had dynamic brakes. The F's did, That is why the F's were preferred by the western roads for passenger service in the mountains. E8 and E9 could be ordered with DB. E7 and earlier did not have it. PA's had pretty good DB too, which was a big deal for roads like Santa Fe and Southern Pacific.
rcdrye SSW9389 was the lead unit one time in March 1974.
SSW9389 was the lead unit one time in March 1974.
The subject unit was built in April 1975. See http://www.trainweb.org/emdloco/74696.htm
Don't SP E9s (and UP I assume) have an extra fan on the roof for the dynamic brake? So if you compare pics of an SP E9 with most other RRs...
very interesting stuff, I am like DPool original poster, but for us all vacation travel was by train as Dad would not drive a long way and we never even considered flying. Train travel was free with Dad's pass, but we never got to ride the classy trains, except UP/SP City of St. Louis. Dad had to pay half fare for us to ride that one, I knew I liked the engines, but until I got on Facebook, had no idea what they were. I first learned about E and F and some of the differences. I just know what I liked, and it was always a comfort to see the wigwag of the headight down the track on a dark night. Some of our train transfers were at midnight or 4 am, the perk of riding on a pass. Sometimes we could step from one train to another like at Lake Alfred, FL or Cairo, IL which was easier.
timz Don't SP E9s (and UP I assume) have an extra fan on the roof for the dynamic brake? So if you compare pics of an SP E9 with most other RRs...
Only the SP E9s had dynamic brakes.
No UP E8 or E9 had them and neither did SP's one E8.
SSW9389 rcdrye SSW9389 was the lead unit one time in March 1974. The subject unit was built in April 1975. See http://www.trainweb.org/emdloco/74696.htm
Typo. March 1976 !
This may, seem obvious but other the 2 vs 3 wheeled trucks it's easy to spot. The E units have a door into the cab then a door in the middle of the car body. While the F's have the cab door and then one at the back (still on the side) Not sure the reasons but maybe some of the other well informed know why.
E-Units have two 12-cylinder engines while F-Units have a single 16-cylinder engine. The door on E-Units is between the two engines, while the rear door on F-Units is behind the engine. Apparently no one saw a reason to put another door behind the second engine on E-Units.
E-Units and passenger-equipped F-units have the train heating boilers at the rear of the carbody. Since some E-Units had two boilers back there I'm kind of surprised no version had a second carbody door.
M636C timz Don't SP E9s (and UP I assume) have an extra fan on the roof for the dynamic brake? So if you compare pics of an SP E9 with most other RRs... Only the SP E9s had dynamic brakes. No UP E8 or E9 had them and neither did SP's one E8. Peter
The E8/E9 roster in issue 43 of Extra 2200 South shows the SP E8A and E9As had dynamic brakes. All UP E8s and E9s had dynamic brakes. Dynamic brakes were also found on the EMD E8A demonstrator, all Milwaukee E9s, and Southern E8As #6906-6915.
The dynamic brakes were removed from the E8 demonstrator before it was sold to Rock Island. Dynamic brakes were removed from all Union Pacific E8s and E9s sold to C&NW and Rock Island.
Ed in Kentucky
The UP drawings of their E8s and E9s (in Kratville books and maybe elsewhere) show "dynamic brake resistors and blower" at roof level between the two exhaust stacks. Might be a 48-inch fan on E9s, if not E8s?
I believe that "F" actually stood for "Fourteen hundred" in the same way that "E" stood for "Eighteen Hundred". The first F unit model was the FTs (an even more literal abbreviation for "FourTeen hundred". Its actual horespower was 1350, but who's counting.
The other EMD first generation models were designated by horsepower too. The S units were Six hundred, and the N units were Nine hundred.
rcdrye E-Units have two 12-cylinder engines while F-Units have a single 16-cylinder engine. The door on E-Units is between the two engines, while the rear door on F-Units is behind the engine. Apparently no one saw a reason to put another door behind the second engine on E-Units. E-Units and passenger-equipped F-units have the train heating boilers at the rear of the carbody. Since some E-Units had two boilers back there I'm kind of surprised no version had a second carbody door.
Opening the carbody doors on a locomotive (whether they be an E, F, SD, GP, etc.), will have a negative effect on the cooling system, as the motors will suck air from the location with the least resistance (the doors) rather than through the cooling system's radiators.
Both the E and F units had the HEP Cummins engine located in the rear, mounted transversally from the prime mover motor(s).
NickPThe cheap and easy way to distinguish E's and F's is: E's were 6 axle, F's 4 axle. If you have a side view, the side door on the E's was half way down the carbody, on the F's the door was at the end.
Comparing assumes that there are two units in view. Looking at a single unit or from a distance, the number of axles and side door placement are hard to miss.
zardoz oltmannd I would expect an E unit to ride better at speed due to its longer length, but probably not a huge difference. Actually, at least on jointed rail, the ride difference was huge. On welded rail the difference was not nearly as significant, but there was still a difference. The F's trucks would beat the rail from side-to-side, as well as readily transmit the joint impacts. The E's ride was vastly superior, similar to the difference between a GP9 and an SD9; there was a reason the SD9's were refered to as "Cadillacs".
oltmannd I would expect an E unit to ride better at speed due to its longer length, but probably not a huge difference.
Actually, at least on jointed rail, the ride difference was huge. On welded rail the difference was not nearly as significant, but there was still a difference.
The F's trucks would beat the rail from side-to-side, as well as readily transmit the joint impacts. The E's ride was vastly superior, similar to the difference between a GP9 and an SD9; there was a reason the SD9's were refered to as "Cadillacs".
For the sake of completness, let's also mention the FL9s because there are many preserved. This is a F unit (only one diesel inside) but with a rear three wheel truck (with front two wheel truck) and longer than a normal F but shorter than an E unit. It also was delivered with third rail pickup and could operate for short periods without the diesel on electrified third rail and was used to go into Grand Central and Penn Station by the New Haven. Believe the extra length/wheel was to support the additional equipment required for the third rail and to spread the weight out a bit on the Park Avenue viaduct (Grand Central line). These were passenger units. Many survived because a dual mode was a handy thing to have and served well into the Amtak era (NH, PC, CR, Amtrak and CDOT).
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