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CP Rebuilds

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, March 22, 2018 7:49 AM

SD70Dude

I am sure that both CP and EMD would say the GP20C-ECO is a rebuild if you asked them.

They only meet Tier 0 right?

 
The designation of EMD ECO rebuild units uses the second digit to indicate the Tier level of the locomotive.
 
The CN units are GP20, so meet Tier 0 or 0+
The EMD demonstrator unit was a GP22, so met Tier 2 regulation.
 
I think some units met Tier 3, but no higher of course.
 
Peter
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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 11:25 PM

Thanks for that great info!

Now it makes sense. It reminds me of the Reading converting I-9 2-8-0 Consolidations into the T-1 4-8-4 Northerns. One would not call the T-1 a rebuild. Thanks for helping my knowledge base!

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:19 PM

Tier 0+.

Besides the fact that Blomberg truck frames are seemingly eternal and there were no impediments of significance towards recycling them to save some expense, the limited component recycling that went on with these was primarily done to save money on meeting environmental standards.

They qualify as rebuilt locomotives, just as many an EMD has done for generations. But that doesn't mean that the railfan community should view them as such. Consistency tells us that we should be thinking of them as new, which they essentially were.

Union Pacific's SD45's were built with trade-ins for example. These included EMD E units, six axle Baldwins, F9 rebuilds, RS and RSC Alco models, many Alco switchers, and even a PA and a wrecked GP30. Basically anything in the dead line got sent to La Grange and then to Pielet Brothers. Yet the only components that went into the new SD45's were the journal boxes of these trade-ins, which gradually were eliminated in the 1970's when they came in for shopping.

It saved a bit of money thanks to a generous trade-in allowance from EMD to encourage buying new over rebuilding and the ever silly tax laws that meant something had to be repurposed from the trade-ins into the new SD45's to make the accounting trickery legal, but does that mean that we should consider them as rebuilds?

In practical terms, I personally don't think so. But if we view these ECO units as being rebuilds, we also have to revise a lot of history for consistency's sake, since this practice was so widespread for a good number of years.

The production total of several successful EMD models for one would have to be slashed to almost nothing, if we are to view something like a Santa Fe GP30 built with a FT trade-in as a rebuilt FT rather than as a new factory built GP30.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:09 PM

I am sure that both CP and EMD would say the GP20C-ECO is a rebuild if you asked them.

They only meet Tier 0 right?

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:10 PM

According to Canadian Railway Observations, Canadian Pacific's GP20C-ECO's only recycled the Blomberg truck frames and air compressors from the 1st generation CPR Geeps traded in towards their purchase.

In other words, they're more of a new locomotive than 95% of EMD's GP20, GP30, and GP35 production was. Almost all of these were built with components from trade-ins of FT's, wrecked EMD's, etc. A GP20 for instance if rebuilt with a F3 traded in towards the purchase, recycled a total of 41 components from the trade-in parts pool (According to David P. Morgan in the March 1961 issue of Trains).

These included the Blomberg truck frames, the traction motors, the traction motor blowers, the speed recorder, the batteries, the air horn, the auxillary generator, the camshaft, the fuel injectors, the air compressor, the water pump, the crankshaft, the fuel pump, the main generator and alternator, and fans. All were all rebuilt and incorporated into the new unit.

But the railfan community doesn't think of an EMD GP20 as being a rebuilt F3 or what have you on a new frame and body. Past debate on some F9 production that recycled the carbody of a F unit trade-in, the railfan community generally agrees that construction during EMD's unit reduction binge after dieselization were brand new locomotives that just happened to incorporate select reconditioned components to reduce the purchase price and to qualify for tax purposes as a rebuilt locomotive.

Yet the average railfan will swear up and down all day that the last new EMD GP rolled out of the erecting hall in 1994, despite these Canadian Pacific GP20C-ECO's using far less components from the units traded-in towards their purchase than most EMD's of the late 1950's through the 1960's did.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 8:24 PM

Aren’t the GP20C-ECO units new from the frame up? I thought they needed to retain a certain percentage of the original unit, albeit a small percentage, to be able to stay below the latest Tier requirements. But I am always willing to learn more.

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Posted by Entropy on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 8:13 PM

YoHo1975
I thought CP had already purged all the SD90s.
 

No.

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Posted by Entropy on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 8:08 PM

kgbw49

So Norfolk Southern hasn’t called. Too bad about that.

CP looks to be a solid GE customer if they order future new-build units in a few years. I believe CP has not ordered full new-build units since EHH took over in 2012 or so. Lots of ECO repowers and rebuilds, but no units fresh off the factory floor, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

GP20C-ECO's are new locomotives, keep that in mind. 

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Posted by Entropy on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 8:06 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The number of SD90MAC's on CP's roster is rather small.  A rebuilding program for them would appear to be unlikely.

 

Are you sure about that?

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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 7:54 PM

So Norfolk Southern hasn’t called. Too bad about that.

CP looks to be a solid GE customer if they order future new-build units in a few years. I believe CP has not ordered full new-build units since EHH took over in 2012 or so. Lots of ECO repowers and rebuilds, but no units fresh off the factory floor, if my memory serves me correctly.

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Posted by traisessive1 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:32 AM

They're rusting in Winnipeg. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:25 AM
I thought CP had already purged all the SD90s.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 6:50 AM

The number of SD90MAC's on CP's roster is rather small.  A rebuilding program for them would appear to be unlikely.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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CP Rebuilds
Posted by CMQ_9017 on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 3:57 PM

I read today that 80 more AC4400CWs will be rebuilt by GE this year, a positive sign. I do believe that the CEFX units are coming off lease this year as well, but with growth in volumes I anticipate needing more locos. I did hear last year that the SD90MACs were slated for a rebuild similar to the SD70ACu from NS, any news on such a development?

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