They could have just named the combined Santa Fe and BN "Santa Fe Northern." I remember that was jokingly suggested in a issue of Trains in the 1990s. I've got the issue, but I can't remember the month or year. As I recall, Santa Fe Northern wouldn't be considered as a merger name, "because it would make sense."
Just wondering, but what's the point of the "swoosh" line underneath the BNSF speed lettering? If the purpose of using speed lettering is to connotate speed, and professional handling of freight, then doesn't that make the swoosh redundant? Or is it to emphasize the speed lettering? Or am I just reading way too much into the company logo?? If anything, the swoosh gives the front end of a locomotive an offside look, and it tends to overwhelm the lettering found on freight cars. BNSF should have stuck with their version of the Santa Fe circle and cross emblem.
tdanneman wrote: Some people may be wondering where they can see this paint scheme. Two photos are in Jim Wrinn's editorial on page 4 of the February issue of Trains, and I did a little write-up with more drawings that can be seen here:http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=2925Thank you everyone for the comments. I do appreciate them whether you like the scheme or not. I figured the "bring back the Warbonnet" comments would surface yet again, but my intention was to improve what BNSF already had, not change the scheme completely, or go back to a scheme that is now defunct. Believe me, if the railroad was still the Santa Fe, I would be all for keeping the warbonnet. The changes I made are simple changes that could be considered tweaks to the existing scheme. If I were to start over from scratch, would I use orange and black? Maybe, maybe not. Since the orange has been around since the early days of BNSF, lets assume they would like to stick with that. My biggest beef with the existing scheme is the gaudy striping on the sides of the comfort cab locomotives, and the plain nose with the BNSF logo. I'm not sure what to say about the comment about using red on orange. I have no red on the scheme at all. The only thing I can think of is that you are seeing the line work of the technical drawing of the locomotive. The only colors I used were orange, black and gold.Tom
Some people may be wondering where they can see this paint scheme. Two photos are in Jim Wrinn's editorial on page 4 of the February issue of Trains, and I did a little write-up with more drawings that can be seen here:http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=2925Thank you everyone for the comments. I do appreciate them whether you like the scheme or not. I figured the "bring back the Warbonnet" comments would surface yet again, but my intention was to improve what BNSF already had, not change the scheme completely, or go back to a scheme that is now defunct. Believe me, if the railroad was still the Santa Fe, I would be all for keeping the warbonnet. The changes I made are simple changes that could be considered tweaks to the existing scheme. If I were to start over from scratch, would I use orange and black? Maybe, maybe not. Since the orange has been around since the early days of BNSF, lets assume they would like to stick with that. My biggest beef with the existing scheme is the gaudy striping on the sides of the comfort cab locomotives, and the plain nose with the BNSF logo. I'm not sure what to say about the comment about using red on orange. I have no red on the scheme at all. The only thing I can think of is that you are seeing the line work of the technical drawing of the locomotive. The only colors I used were orange, black and gold.
Tom
If you used a locomotive from Trainiax you wouldnt have those red lines. Now that I look at it, it actually looks ok with outt eh red.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Santa Fe Northern would have been a good choice.
I don't think it's fair to call the Heritage scheme related to neither railroad as it's pretty strongly related to the Great Northern. In fact, with the exception of the herald, it might as well BE the Great Northern Scheme. At least H1.
I will say this though, I did like the BNSF adaptation of the Santa Fe cross. That was one of the few good logo choices they made. Too bad they screwed it all up with the Cigar band.
This is from someone who goes way back before BNSF to the SLSF-Frisco Railway. My Dad worked in the Lindenwood Yards and office in St. Louis and Mom was third generation of her family to work for them. My Dad had died before the merge, but it was hard for Mom to see the Frisco name gone forever. I now say the SF part of the BNSF includes the Frisco.
Frisco lives forever in my heart.
espeefoamer wrote:Everything's better with WARBONNETon it!
If you want to see a real Santa Fe heritage scheme, take a look at the new power from MPI and NRE being delivered to Pacific Harbor Lines.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=213218&nseq=4
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=212530&nseq=6
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=197061&nseq=24
If you read "Leaders Count", you'll find that BNSF wanted to create a new image and culture for the employees so that they could get everyone pulling in the same direction. If they had stuck with the warbonnet, that would have conveyed the notion that ATSF "won" the merger. Krebs and Rose knew full well that the warbonnet was a RRing icon, but they couldn't let that get in the way of getting the railroaders all pulling equally for the mergered company.
NS did the same sort of thing when SOU and N&W mergered - to good effect - but apparently forgot those lessons when they gobbled up their 60% of Conrail. The only accomodation made to Conrail's culture was NS allowed business casual dress a year in - but the top execs still wore suits!
RRers are a proud bunch!
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Oltmann, you threw something into the mix that I hadn't considered- which was not only how we see the railroad, but how it sees itself. I was an armed courier working for Wells Fargo Armored Cars in Phoenix when they merged (read: bought out) by Loomis. The Wells guys knew where they stood when the new logos went on the trucks... and then when the trucks were painted Loomis white. From a corporate and practical standpoint, the new paint job made sense. Try riding around in a big red truck in 110 degree heat without an air conditioner... I have. But we were used to being able to walk into a bank or a store and having the customer say, "The Big Red truck is here." Practical? No- dirt showed up very well on the big red truck, and it really was hotter than the all white van. The corporate logo- a Pony Express rider- said a lot about the attitude Wells employees had about their job, when they thought about it.
Just like I suspect Santa Fe engineers, if they thought about it, absolutely hated the idea of running out West in a bright red cab, but they knew the Warbonnet scheme was meant for special trains- the Super Chief and El Capitan- premier trains that needed, demanded, premier crews.
On the reverse side, I've heard a lot about how former SP crew felt about watching the gray and red color scheme go away in favor of UP's yellow and gray. At a gut level, they felt like everything that had made them SP employees was being ignored by the eeeeevil Uncle Pete.
But the UP has a powerful corporate logo and paint scheme that sets it apart from everyone else. It's been around long enough that it suggests stability, continuity, and efficient service. Stick the UP wings on the front and you have a symbol representing speed, which is what a customer wants to see.
Some corporate images die hard in employee's minds. The Southern hasn't been around here for eons in Columbus, Georgia. But I've heard engineers call the tower operators in Columbus Yard "the Southern guys." Even NS employees tell you they are happily (maybe) working on "the old Central of Georgia" division. Take a look at the NS "F" units pulling their executive train, and you don't have NS black and white- you have a SOUTHERN paint scheme with a small horse on the front.
To revisit an old topic, imagine how employees of UPS would react if they stopped being the Big Brown truck. Same thing. When you go fooling around with logos and how the public sees your company, you are playing with fire.
Is the cigar band practical? Nope. Is the railroad the Santa Fe any more? Nope. It's a swoosh and series of letters making it indistinguishable from GATX or ADM or CSX.
Which reminds me- put the dang cat back on the engines, and let's get back to calling it the Chessie system....
That same editorial mentioned that the CEO of CSX is actually disappointed that they chose CSX over Chessie or Seaboard, so it works both ways.
And again, if Krebs and Rose were so dang worried about forging a new identity, why did they resurrect a GN scheme? How is that a new identity? The point about the UP stands as well. The BN is/was a baby as far as corporate identities go. Santa Fe has a history nearly as long as UP's. I'm sure all the old timers in Montana, the Dakotas and the PacNW were thrilled to see the Empire builder colors again, but what about everyone else?
In short, I understand what Krebs and Rose were concerned about, but from my perspective, they failed to pull off there goal. Heck, I still see former BN and former ATSF employees snipe back and forth about SOP differences.
YoHo1975 wrote:I don't mind the Heritage schemes, but I'll never understand why they dumped the most well known paint scheme in all of railroading. LONG LIVE THE WARBONNET!
I don't mind the Heritage schemes, but I'll never understand why they dumped the most well known paint scheme in all of railroading.
LONG LIVE THE WARBONNET!
I read somewhere that the warbonnet is not dead, rather just being given a rest.
oltmannd wrote: If you read "Leaders Count", you'll find that BNSF wanted to create a new image and culture for the employees so that they could get everyone pulling in the same direction. If they had stuck with the warbonnet, that would have conveyed the notion that ATSF "won" the merger. Krebs and Rose knew full well that the warbonnet was a RRing icon, but they couldn't let that get in the way of getting the railroaders all pulling equally for the mergered company. NS did the same sort of thing when SOU and N&W mergered - to good effect - but apparently forgot those lessons when they gobbled up their 60% of Conrail. The only accomodation made to Conrail's culture was NS allowed business casual dress a year in - but the top execs still wore suits!RRers are a proud bunch!
It will be nice to keep the NS Logo on a Blue Locomotive...
SD60M wrote:I wish BNSF would just repaint all the ex.BN and ex.ATSF in there original colors and have BNSF on them. Like a warbonnet with the swoosh lettering on the long hood side where it said Santa Fe, just like they are doing with the BN Mac's. That way they would have BN and ATSF paint schemes and not have to paint it in the ugly H3!
What colors would you use on power that was purchased since the merger? And where would you be when all the old power is retired (it will be sooner than you think)? How would you make sure that some older power isn't inadvertently (?) repainted in newer colors? And why would BNSF spend extra money on something like this?
Lord Atmo wrote: SchemerBob wrote:And I highly doubt anything new that BNSF will come up with please any of you guys...It's a railroad, for pete's sake! At least its around and BNSF's bright orange yellow and black is much better than nothing at all.well....if they stopped dropping headlights on their ex-BN power unless they intended to paint them in orange, i'd be pleased.and yes bright orange and black is GREAT. cmon, at least it's not ARMOUR YELLOW! blugh... i like BNSF's paint scheme ....but KCS's revived scheme just wins on epic levels!
SchemerBob wrote:And I highly doubt anything new that BNSF will come up with please any of you guys...It's a railroad, for pete's sake! At least its around and BNSF's bright orange yellow and black is much better than nothing at all.
And I highly doubt anything new that BNSF will come up with please any of you guys...
It's a railroad, for pete's sake! At least its around and BNSF's bright orange yellow and black is much better than nothing at all.
well....if they stopped dropping headlights on their ex-BN power unless they intended to paint them in orange, i'd be pleased.
and yes bright orange and black is GREAT. cmon, at least it's not ARMOUR YELLOW! blugh...
i like BNSF's paint scheme
....but KCS's revived scheme just wins on epic levels!
YES!!!!!!
Would it not be nice if BNSF took a page from Union Pacific,s book and painted some locos in the colours of their predessor roads a 70mac in CBQ colours yeah.
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
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