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Paul you asked about penalties for VW in Germany. Till now none. As said before we don't have class action. Owner who sued VW or their dealers to take their car back had mixed results depending on courts. Mostly the fraud software were deemed an insignificant defect as it can be rectified with just a software update and the request was rejected. Now there are afew ruling caling it fraud and affirming the request. We'll have to wait for a Federal Supreme Court ruling. [quote user="Paul Milenkovic"]The discussion on this thread is whether the ever more strict U.S. emission limits, and even stricter limits demanded by California, are beyond a point of diminishing economic returns in balancing the costs to meet them against the ever diminishing increment in health from removing the last amount of pollution.[/quote] I started to post in this thread when I read the contempt against EPA and CARB to remind that had a lot good things. I agree there has to be a balance between economy and environment. But where is this balance? In Europe the components of a yoghurt travel 5,500 miles until they reach the buyer. Transport seems too cheap? [quote user="Paul Milenkovic"]Do you suppose the European emission limits strike a better balance between economic prosperity and clean air? Or are the lower European limits the result of political deals with truck drivers or with business owners, deals putting the health of Germans and the other peoples of Europe in peril?[/quote] From my point of view the European limits are not better balanced. Especially as they are not enforced. They are tested on a roller test stand using all tricks of the trade. After VW scandal the EU ordered road tests but our government pushed through higher limits than on the test stand and free choice of proving ground. The truck manufacturers are not the problem. Passenger cars (Euro 6) emit twice as much NO2 per mile than trucks (Euro VI), per mile not per mile/hp. <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-40446.pdf">http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-40446.pdf</a> As the passenger car industry is the largest in Germany the goverment tries to protect them in any way they see fit. And yes it is partly at the cost of people's health. I can't judge the influence of the political systems. The limits are established by the EU. The member countries must vote unanimously so one country can block decisions. I think it hasn't much to do with lack information. It is a political priority. While emission limits for industrial works are quite strict the government protects the car manufacturers. The health risk of NO2 are known for a long time at least here in the Ruhr Area. The VW scandal brought to light that the limits not only are not met but exceeded up to 30 times. This made the NO2 - health discussion more public. Regards, Volker
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