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BNSF locomotives with HEP?

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BNSF locomotives with HEP?
Posted by NP Eddie on Saturday, January 29, 2022 6:40 PM

Does the BNSF plan to order ten or so big locomotives with HEP for special trains and then retire the older power cars?

They could also be used to add to AMTRAK in case of an emergency.

Ed Burns

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, January 29, 2022 7:30 PM

NP Eddie
Does the BNSF plan to order ten or so big locomotives with HEP for special trains and then retire the older power cars?

They could also be used to add to AMTRAK in case of an emergency.

Ed Burns

Rest assured that neither BNSF or any other Class 1's will order any equipment that is designed to assist Amtrak.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 31, 2022 3:45 AM

CP might, some day

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, January 31, 2022 10:05 AM

HEP is a bit more sophisticated and larger than a steam generator and would require a redesign of the locomotive to get it to fit.  It would also require additional maintenance compared to a standard design even if it is never used.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Monday, January 31, 2022 10:18 AM

Doesn't make sense compared to just having two power cars on the roster. They enable any of their fleet to head the front of a passenger special. Much cheaper and flexible than having 10 expensive to purchase and maintain locomotives that have to be in the right place at the right time any time they dispatch a passenger special.

Unless it's done in reference to their original form before conversion, the power cars also double as extra sleeper and baggage space (I've seen them listed in several places as power/sleeper and power/baggage). So taking away the power car by substituting a HEP equipped locomotive doesn't even necessarily mean the consist will drop by one car, if they have to make up for that lost space by adding a dedicated sleeper or baggage car.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, January 31, 2022 12:14 PM

I can't help but think this has something to do with the Progress Rail SD70MACH program for METRA.  If the Chicago people don't buy the full extended production run, or Progress quotes BNSF an inexpensive 'enough' price... there is your big EMD conversion ready to hand, with the Anbesol already liberally applied...

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, January 31, 2022 3:25 PM

CSS:  Silly me, I thought it would be a drop in like an S/G!  I was calling crews on the NP in 1968-1969 and the Road Foreman of Engines would have all the hostlers qualified to be passenger firemen.

Please e-mail me at enburns@comcast.net for questions on Chicago Fire and Chicago PD.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 31, 2022 3:40 PM

NP Eddie
CSS:  Silly me, I thought it would be a drop in like an S/G!  I was calling crews on the NP in 1968-1969 and the Road Foreman of Engines would have all the hostlers qualified to be passenger firemen.

Please e-mail me at enburns@comcast.net for questions on Chicago Fire and Chicago PD.

Ed Burns

CSX has the former Amtrak FDP40's as their Executive Power - that at least on Amtrak were equipped with HEP - I don't know if they are still equipped.  Observation of the recent CSX OCS's leads me to believe the car trailing the locomotive consist in most cases is a designated power car.

HEP is not a unlimited resource.  Amtrak's AutoTrain is restricted in the number of passenger cars it can operate by the amount of HEP power that the locomotive consist can generate.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, January 31, 2022 10:46 PM

It is definitely possible to put a HEP genset in the steam generator space.  This has been done on EMD F's, E's and Geeps (see GO Transit's original GP40TC fleet, with a 12v149 Detroit genset that might have been louder than the prime mover).  

Geeps and SD's sometimes got longer frames to accommodate a steam generator, and the same might apply to a genset.

The Class I's have gone in different directions regarding OCS power.  UP and BNSF have been using freight power and separate generator cars for years, and CN has joined this club (our two remaining E9's have been in storage for several years, and for some time before they were in poor enough shape that they could only used be as HEP generators).  NS famously purchased and rebuilt an A-B-B-A set during the Moorman era, only to sell them off once PSR took hold.  Meanwhile CSX has been sending their F40's for upgrades and CP has done the same with their F's, even the B-unit got rebuilt and had a HEP genset installed to boot.  

Rocky Mountaineer has always used separate HEP generators in baggage cars, and also used at least one former CN steam generator car during their early years, it may have also contained a HEP genset.  

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, January 31, 2022 11:00 PM
 

Not sure about BNSF, but Alaska Railroads 4300 series SD70MAC's are HEP equipped.

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by Bryan Jones on Tuesday, February 1, 2022 1:29 AM

The Amtrak units that CSX has for the executive fleet are F40PH's, all of which were buily with the ability to supply HEP derived from the prime mover. CSX had 2 of its 4 units (#9993 and 9998 , now #2 and 1 respectively) rebuilt by Canadian Allied Diesel rebuilt in 2018 which involved lengthening the frames of the units and installation of separate HEP gensets, similar to the Via F40 rebuilds previously done by CAD.

BaltACD

 

NP Eddie
CSS:  Silly me, I thought it would be a drop in like an S/G!  I was calling crews on the NP in 1968-1969 and the Road Foreman of Engines would have all the hostlers qualified to be passenger firemen.

Please e-mail me at enburns@comcast.net for questions on Chicago Fire and Chicago PD.

Ed Burns

 

CSX has the former Amtrak FDP40's as their Executive Power - that at least on Amtrak were equipped with HEP - I don't know if they are still equipped.  Observation of the recent CSX OCS's leads me to believe the car trailing the locomotive consist in most cases is a designated power car.

HEP is not a unlimited resource.  Amtrak's AutoTrain is restricted in the number of passenger cars it can operate by the amount of HEP power that the locomotive consist can generate.

 

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Posted by Entropy on Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:13 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

Not sure about BNSF, but Alaska Railroads 4300 series SD70MAC's are HEP equipped.

 
 
 

Some of the Alaska MAC fleet has HEP, but this is a very different design. It cuts out truck #2 i believe when switched into HEP, the amperage that would've gone to 3 traction motors is run through switchgear to an HEP inverter. So essentially you pull a train with 3 AC traction motors, fine if its a 6 or 8 car passenger train. SD70MACH has instead 2 idlers, 4 TM's and a HEP inverter.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, February 23, 2022 11:13 PM

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by AMTRAKKER on Thursday, February 24, 2022 7:31 PM

That was a great article on the ARR MAC/HEP's. 

Thanks for the link!

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Sunday, February 27, 2022 1:54 PM

Do HEP cars use diesel generators? Is the fuel tank hung below the frame like on a loco?

Still in training.


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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 2, 2022 9:48 AM

A separate HEP car would likely use 440V 60Hz genset(s) sled-mounted for easy maintenance or replacement.  I would not be surprised to see the tank hung under the car, but only in a location that doesn't unduly stress the frame or load one end excessively.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 2, 2022 9:54 AM

Lithonia Operator
Do HEP cars use diesel generators? Is the fuel tank hung below the frame like on a loco?

Was reading a book on the B&O passenger diesels - all the E units.  Book stated that the water tank on the E8's and E9's encapsulated the fuel tank.  If there was a primary tank rupture, water was spilled not fuel.  As I recall water capacity was 1300 gallons and fuel capacity was 1200 gallons.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 2, 2022 10:24 AM

BaltACD
Book stated that the water tank on the E8's and E9's encapsulated the fuel tank. 

I would never have thought of doing that...

Not sure how useful it would actually be in a wreck, though, as the water level likely dropped substantially in the relatively tall, thin wall spaces (and might suffer some of the shock issues reported for the SDP40Fs, albeit at much lower and more preferable level, with trucks having much better lateral accommodation).

What would be amusing would be corrosion producing pinhole leaks into the fuel tank.  Unless the fuel tank circumferentially bolted onto the water tank, you'd have fun getting in there, and there might be substantial water in the fuel and fuel in the water problems to be overjoyed by surprise at.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, March 2, 2022 2:11 PM

Lithonia Operator

Do HEP cars use diesel generators? Is the fuel tank hung below the frame like on a loco?

It depends on the type of car.  Many seem to have been made out of existing equipment instead of being built new, and passenger or freight cars don't really have a lot of space under the frame for fuel tanks without interfering with brake rigging and other stuff, so presumably the fuel tank is in the carbody in these.

https://www.traingeek.ca/wp/new-cars-for-the-rocky-mountaineer/

Our distributed braking cars (made out of boxcars or containers on coil car frames) have a large rectangular fuel tank inside the carbody or container.  

If the HEP car was made out of an old locomotive it will probably use the existing fuel tank the locomotive already had.  And even if rebuilt the fuel tank will probably stay in the same place, as on this former ALCO PB (the last one left) which now has Blomberg B trucks and a much larger fuel tank than its original one.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5571/14860481948_ea0a646e78_o.jpg

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, March 7, 2022 10:26 PM

Overmod
BaltACD
Book stated that the water tank on the E8's and E9's encapsulated the fuel tank. 

I would never have thought of doing that...

The May 1949 issue of Railway Mechanical Engineer has a nice cross-section drawing of the combination ful and water tank on page 250. The article mentioned that the intent was to minimize "fuel tank punctures by objects hurled up from the right-of-way." Just above that drawing is another one showing locations for more water tanks in the FP7A.

FWIW, the Internet Archive has some 500 plus issues of Railway Mechanical Engineer on-line, with the most recent issue being either 1952 or 53. It was fun to read some of the original articles that were quoted by White in his book on American RR Passenger Cars - such as the article on high speed trucks discussing Nystrom's work.

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Posted by mvlandsw on Wednesday, March 9, 2022 11:00 PM
BaltACD
"Book stated that the water tank on the E8's and E9's encapsulated the fuel tank. "
 
 
The B&O passenger geep tanks were designed that way. Maybe all the EMD passenger geeps were.
 
Mark Vinski

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