Trains.com

Metro North issues RFP for new dual power locomotives

5182 views
7 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Metro North issues RFP for new dual power locomotives
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 25, 2018 4:09 PM

https://www.railwaygazette.com/tenders/details/show/mta-long-island-rail-road-request-for-proposal.html

Metro-North Commuter Railroad (MNR) requests proposals for the following: 

RFP No. 227776 Design, Manufacture, Test and Deliver New Dual Mode Locomotives – Phase 1 Qualification 

MNR is seeking initial qualifying proposals from firms to design, manufacture and deliver new dual mode locomotives as described in the Request for Proposal (RFP). This is the first phase of a planned two-phase Request For Proposal (“RFP”) process. Interested firms may obtain a copy of this RFP from Metro-North's Procurement and Material Management Department........

Deadline for submitting proposals is no later than 2:30PM EST on September 17, 2018.

MNR will report to the Section 305 Technical Subcommittee. From their August 23rd, 2018 minutes of meeting: http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/305%20tech%20sc%20minutes%208-23-18%20draft.doc

6. Update:  Metro North Dual Mode Locomotive Procurement – Steve Hewitt for Ray Hessinger, NYSDOT:
Ray Hessinger was unavailable for today’s call (8-23-18), but informed Steve Hewitt previously that the Metro-North Dual Mode Locomotive RFP is on the street and is available. There have been extensive changes to the PRIIA specification which was used as a baseline.  Metro North is considering taking steps to have the changes reviewed and considered by the NGEC...........
Steve Hewitt added, that it is not meant to be done to revise the spec throughout the procurement – so there will not be an urgency as with an active procurement. (Metro North is not required to use the PRIIA spec) All of those who use the specification are asked to inform the NGEC of any changes made that the NGEC may wish to consider that would improve the PRIIA spec.
Amtrak as well as Metro North used the PRIIA 305 specifications only as base. Now they try to get their specifications for the dual power together.
Standardisation, lower prices, what for?
Regards, Volker

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 27, 2018 6:12 AM

where-as NJT and LIRR dual-power locomotives were required to have diesel performance reasonably close to electric performance and visa-versa, Metro North and Amtrak settled for much lower speed under electric performance, since electric was only to be used south of 125th Street on Metro North, and south of 72nd street on the former West Side Freight Line for Amtrak.  Then there is the question of electric power, 600 or 750 volts DC and/or 12,000 and 25,000 volts AC.  Metro North and LIRR only need DC.  NJT AC.  Amtrak both?  Or does the tunnel under Hudson Yards between Penn Station and the former WSFL have clearances for catenary, not yet insalled?

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 27, 2018 7:08 AM

Catenary on the Hudson Yards tunnel seems unlikely since third rail is already in place in Penn Station and the North River tunnels.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 27, 2018 8:38 AM

daveklepper
where-as NJT and LIRR dual-power locomotives were required to have diesel performance reasonably close to electric performance and visa-versa, Metro North and Amtrak settled for much lower speed under electric performance, since electric was only to be used south of 125th Street on Metro North, and south of 72nd street on the former West Side Freight Line for Amtrak.

If you take the NJT Bombardier ALP-45DP it runs 125 mph under catenary and 100 mph as diesel-electric.

Amtrak looks for dual-power locomotives capable of 125 mph as diesel-electric and 80 mph on 3rd rail. The reason is that 80 mph is about the maximum speed considered safe on 3rd rail.

daveklepper
Then there is the question of electric power, 600 or 750 volts DC and/or 12,000 and 25,000 volts AC. Metro North and LIRR only need DC. NJT AC. Amtrak both? Or does the tunnel under Hudson Yards between Penn Station and the former WSFL have clearances for catenary, not yet insalled?

Metro North only asks for 3rd rail dual power. The existing P32AC-DM run on 750 VDC.

I think the straight electrics for Amtrak will be multi-system locomotives like the Siemens ACS-64. They are capable of 12 kV 25 Hz AC; 12.5 kV 60 Hz AC; 25 kV 60 Hz AC; all under catenary.
Regards, Volker

Currently the Metro North and Amtrak specification differ but I'm sure they'll agree on the same speeds to be able to buy the same locomotive.
Regards, Volker

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, August 27, 2018 9:22 PM

MetroNorth has no need of a 125 mph loco, which would be a more complicated machine.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 28, 2018 4:15 AM

The Metro North runs at 90 mph IIRC.

I don't know the Metro North specification therefore I just gave the Amtrak requirements.

On the other hand there is the statement of both that their specifications differ but not that much that it is becomming a show stopper. So they'll try to bring them together.

The NGEC group concluded in their Dual Power (3rd rail) specification that 110 mph instead of 125 mph in diesel-electric mode and 80 mph in 3rd rail mode are sufficient. This decision was guided by the MNR's, LIRR's current speeds and expected track dynamics: http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/Dual_Mode_DC_3rd_Rail-Appendix_A_4-110_MPH_-_for_TSCapproval.docx

Why Amtrak moved to 125 mph, who knows?
Regards, Volker

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 28, 2018 10:08 PM

Maybe Amtrak eventually expects 125 MPH service north of MNRR to Albany where possible  ?

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:32 AM

VOLKER LANDWEHR

The Metro North runs at 90 mph IIRC.

I don't know the Metro North specification therefore I just gave the Amtrak requirements.

On the other hand there is the statement of both that their specifications differ but not that much that it is becomming a show stopper. So they'll try to bring them together.

The NGEC group concluded in their Dual Power (3rd rail) specification that 110 mph instead of 125 mph in diesel-electric mode and 80 mph in 3rd rail mode are sufficient. This decision was guided by the MNR's, LIRR's current speeds and expected track dynamics: http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/Dual_Mode_DC_3rd_Rail-Appendix_A_4-110_MPH_-_for_TSCapproval.docx

Why Amtrak moved to 125 mph, who knows?
Regards, Volker

 

The information about Amtrak's speed requirements came from the minutes of meeting of the Group305 Executive Board and Technical Subcommittee which differed.

The are corrected now. Amtrak requires 110 mph in diesl mode, not 125 mph.

There is still a discrepance but has nothing to do with Amtrak's requirements.
Regards, Volker

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy