All Class I railroads roster some SD40-2 locomotives, but earlier SD40 locomotives are rare. The only SD35s that I am aware of are a quartet on Montana Rail Link who also operate some surviving true SD45s. There are other surviving SD45s that have been modified to be SD40-2s or -3s internally, but look like SD45s externally.
The only Class I railroad still operating GP9 rebuilds is Canadian National, Canadian Pacific was another late user of GP9s but recently replaced theirs with brand-new GP20C-ECO locomotives. All GP38 locomotives are newer than the GP30 locomotives or GP35 locomotives. Since most of these locomotives are used as switchers the turbocharger was an expensive maintenance item. Recently the tougher emission requirements for locomotives have caused railroads to favor turbocharged locomotives for switching services and so you will see a reversion to turbocharged lower horsepower locomotives over time.
SD45's were sold off or rebuilt because their original V-20 engines were fuel hogs. Many railroads apparently felt that the extra 600 HP wasn't worth the additional fuel cost and some extra parts expense.
I only count two unrebuilt SD40's on Class 1 rosters today (Hopefully soon to be 3 if NS follows through with their earlier plans to resurrect the first N&W SD40). But much like the SD40, many rebuilt SD45's remain active that have been converted to SD40-2 or -3 specifications.
Straight SD45's are rare for several reasons.
While more fuel efficient on a horsepower basis, many railroads decided that the extra 600 HP wasn't worth the expense once their mainline days started to fade and they became more of a switcher than a road locomotive. Likewise, that added complexity made them more expensive to maintain than a straight SD40.
Secondly was timing. Most were retired in the early 1980's when there just wasn't a market. There was stored power and lots of 2nd generation units coming off lease during a weak economy after the 1980 recession. And rebuilding programs to convert them to Dash 2 specifications or convert them to 16 cylinders weren't present and were considered cost prohibitive at the time. And many went to scrap just before the spin-off era began.
Plenty survived into the 1990's though. Many of Southern Pacific's SD45R's lasted until the UP acquisition when they were well worn and again in need of a heavy rebuilding. And Rio Grande's fleet was reactivated after the merger with Southern Pacific and stayed busy until the same time period. And pioneer spinoffs Wisconsin Central and Montana Rail Link utilized SD45's as cornerstones of their fleets into the 2000's before merger and SD70ACe's decimated them. And Santa Fe rebuilt many of their SD45's in the 1980's and ran them well into the 1990's.
beaulieuThe only Class I railroad still operating GP9 rebuilds is Canadian National, Canadian Pacific was another late user of GP9s but recently replaced theirs with brand-new GP20C-ECO locomotives.
Easy to think that, but BNSF still qualifies thanks to their fleet of GP28-2's. These were MK rebuilds with new cabs and bodies, overhauled 567's with 645 power assemblies installed, new electrical systems, etc.
About the only thing different from other late geep rebuilding programs like on the GTW is the new long hood. They qualify in my book where as something like a Green Goat built on a GP9 frame doesn't.
Didn't those 20 cylinder engines on the SD-45's have a bad habit of breaking their crankshafts?
That was true early on, but EMD fixed the cranshaft problem and they no longer had that problem.
Thanks for the insight everyone. It does make sense that the big 6-axle road units get replaced sooner because that's where the innovation and, from the RR's perspective, ROI is. I guess we're seeing that now with the dash-8's going for a pittance at auction.
It still seems weird that there aren't more rebuilt units on short lines. Heck, it seems like there are more Alcos out there. But the fuel consumption is probably the issue. (Interestingly, I read somewhere that the alco engine is actually quite efficient.)
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The larger SD45 radiators also had a tendency to leak, particularly when faced with cold temperatures.
I'm also not convinced that there are all that many SD40 rebuilds out there on class ones, especially with SD40-2s having left the fleet and being scrapped on occasion.
BNSF has several "SD38P's" from SD35 cores. Not aware of any particulars on them though, such as if they retain their 567's with 645 power assemblies substituted like their GP39's and GP28's (Which I'm sure they do).
NorthWestI'm also not convinced that there are all that many SD40 rebuilds out there on class ones, especially with SD40-2s having left the fleet and being scrapped on occasion.
Class 1 rosters of non-original SD40-2's from a variety of sources are indeed depleted these days compared to back in 2000 or so, thanks to retirements and standardization of their retained fleets. Besides the less than five original SD40's still out there in Class 1 fleets, I see the following...
There are at least 12 on Norfolk Southern from Conrail's fleet. And like the rest of their large SD40-2 fleet, every last one of them is out running with not a single stored example. One of these is mixed in with their Conrail factory built SD40-2's just as it was when Conrail did it as a replacement for a wrecked SD40-2.
CSX is still running all of them that they inherited from Conrail along with a dozen additions from NS that they received in trade for their SD80MAC's (Although a handful of the former have been turned into SD38-2's). And there are dozens more of their own rebuilds. They've been cycling all these through for their 2nd rebuilding to SD40-3 specifications and will be around for a while yet.
On Canadian National, I still count 18 of their 1990's rebuilds from their once large SD40 fleet. And I count 17 rebuilds from the Grand Trunk Western rebuilding program from 15-20 years ago or so. And there are still 4 original SD38's, a normally aspirated version of the SD40, in the Canadian National family.
KCS seems to have several SD40-2 and SD40-3 rebuilds from SD40 cores, although I'm uncertain on the accuracy of the data that I'm looking at. And if it counts, they have 2 or 3 SD22ECO's from SD40 cores (Wasn't at least one of these a SDP40?).
They seem to be extinct now on Union Pacific with only factory built SD40-2's remaining and all upgrades from different models now off the roster. And I don't count any on BNSF, although several of their 3GS21C-DE's utilized SD40's for their platfoms.
On CP, I believe all of the SD40M-2's are now off the roster. But from their retained fleet from DM&E, I still count two factory built SD38's and 25 SD40-2's and -3's from SD40 cores. From the IC&E power, I still see 4 SD40-3's from SD40 cores.
And most of the 1990-2000 era rebuilds of units like SD40's and SD45's to SD40-2 and -3 specifications that have been cast off are in lease fleets like CEFX and haven't really left Class 1 rails. Their rebuilding and upgrading over the past 25 years have usually given them decent value in the marketplace, so few have been scrapped. Many of those that utilized SD45 cores even got brand new GE produced 16-645's when rebuilt to SD40-2 specifications.
16-567D3A The total Number of 20cyl locomotives built plays a part as there was only 1802 20cyl EMD's built of all models,SD45,SDP45,F45,FP45,SD45X,SD45-2,SD45T2.there were 889 SD40 and derivatives built thru7/72.as noted earlier,EMD quickly solved the early crankshaft reliability problems and addressed the purchase and maintenance costs of the flaired radiators by reverting to vertical core radiators with the SD45-2.final 20cyl locomotive deliveries of 247 SD45T2's were for SP in 6/75.
The total Number of 20cyl locomotives built plays a part as there was only 1802 20cyl EMD's built of all models,SD45,SDP45,F45,FP45,SD45X,SD45-2,SD45T2.there were 889 SD40 and derivatives built thru7/72.as noted earlier,EMD quickly solved the early crankshaft reliability problems and addressed the purchase and maintenance costs of the flaired radiators by reverting to vertical core radiators with the SD45-2.final 20cyl locomotive deliveries of 247 SD45T2's were for SP in 6/75.
Not quite. The 30 SD80MAC's delivered new to Conrail were all equipped with V-20 engines. With its V-20 engine and flared radiators, the SD80MAC could almost be considered "son of SD45".
NorthWest I'm also not convinced that there are all that many SD40 rebuilds out there on class ones, especially with SD40-2s having left the fleet and being scrapped on occasion.
Look at how many SD40-3 CSX has, which are SD40-2.
BNSF has many GP39-3 which are GP30 or GP35 rebuilds. BNSF also has #1352 which is an SD32ECO built from an SD45-2.
Keep in mind we're talking about locomotives of 50 years old, most have needed to be rewired by now and recieved new rebuild designations.
CSSHEGEWISCH 16-567D3A The total Number of 20cyl locomotives built plays a part as there was only 1802 20cyl EMD's built of all models,SD45,SDP45,F45,FP45,SD45X,SD45-2,SD45T2.there were 889 SD40 and derivatives built thru7/72.as noted earlier,EMD quickly solved the early crankshaft reliability problems and addressed the purchase and maintenance costs of the flaired radiators by reverting to vertical core radiators with the SD45-2.final 20cyl locomotive deliveries of 247 SD45T2's were for SP in 6/75. Not quite. The 30 SD80MAC's delivered new to Conrail were all equipped with V-20 engines. With its V-20 engine and flared radiators, the SD80MAC could almost be considered "son of SD45".
There are also various foreign installations of the 20-645 like the fleet of DDM45's for Brazil and the later examples of the Danish Class MZ line (Any others?).
The DDM's were even built right there in La Grange and are EMD products through and through.
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While not the main topic of discussion, your hunch about its uses outside of railroading is indeed accurate.
For a notable example, the 20-645E was the standard power plant for the 1970's modernization program for GATX's American Steamship Company that saw it add 10 new freighters to its Great Lakes fleet powered with this model engine.
Was a popular choice outside of railroading.
Interesting, did they get the engines direct from EMD or from scrapped locos?
SOYR430 Interesting, did they get the engines direct from EMD or from scrapped locos?
I know of a cutter head dredge that had 4 20 cylinder engines, one of which was traced to a Conrail locomotive that was wrecked. Back in the 70's EMD's biggest competitor in the marine field was refurbished locomotive take outs.
EMD.s marine units have a deeper oil pan, different accessory drive cover, different piping on the front and so forth. Then there are the right hand rotating units with the flywheel marked the other way and water pump scrolls wind the other way. An ABS inspected vessel has to have all the certification such as the ABS stamp on the crankshaft. That was about $200 extra for the correct part.
The 25 EMD 20-645's that went into ASC's new ships came direct from La Grange from 1972-1981 (Paired engines for the 7 smaller ships that were 730' or less, a single triple engined installation in a 770' freighter, and 4 engine installations in their pair of thousand footers).
This shipbuilding program occurred largely during a time when SD45's were still mainline power, although at the tail end of it you'd of seen many stored on lines like the Union Pacific. So there weren't second hand options available for marine users to go with during the 1970's and early 1980's.
Like the example above though, I bet a fair number of former SD45 engines have since found their way into tugs, river towboats, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me too much. I remember hearing the distinct EMD sound from the M/V Incan Superior in 1976 as it passed under the Duluth Aerial Bridge and have heard a few towboats with the same sound. OP and 251 engines also seem to be fairly common in marine service.
I believe your answer is the best thus far. SD45's were not known to be very fuel efficient. So, I imagine that might be why so few are seen out there. Though, I happen to like them, I still believe the SD40-2 was a better all around locomotive. It is still widely utilized.
ZtrainThat's because Dash-8's were a rolling junkpile the day they were made.
I understand your sentiment, but the Dash 8 was actually a decent locomotive because of its basic design. The two axeled trucks were kind of funny to look at, but GE designers probably didn't care to much about looks versus practicality. Fuel mileage was decent as was overall power. For old guys like me who grew up watching SD40-2's and other EMD power, seeing a Dash 8 just about caused convulsions.......lol
Anyway, I get where you are coming from.☺
What I never understood is why did GM make the SD45 3600 HP? The 20 cylinder engine has 25% more displacement than does the 16 cylinder. So 25% more HP than the 3000 HP SD40 is 3750. And if you factor in that a large percentage of the "parasitic" power loss, like the air compressor, would not increase with the larger engine the horsepower of an SD45 should be even higher. Was GM just matching the horsepower of the competition?
Jack R.I believe your answer is the best thus far. SD45's were not known to be very fuel efficient. So, I imagine that might be why so few are seen out there. Though, I happen to like them, I still believe the SD40-2 was a better all around locomotive. It is still widely utilized.
A better comparison is the SD45 to SD40. The SD40-2 and SD45-2 had solid state electronics which were much simpler and easier to fix than the earlier mechanical electronic system of the SD45 and SD40. There are a bunch of SD45-2s still out there as well but most have been substantially rebuilt.
the dash 8's and 9's are still piles of junk, they just rattle more now.
th 20-645 was a great marine engine. I was on Interlake steamships tug with them, they saved us when we were loading one day and a wicked wind came up, you could get them up and loading faster than the old pielsticks or about any other engine.
And I bet that her twin 20-645's came out of SD45's or SD45-2's.
The Dorothy Ann was new construction in the late 1990's when she was built to be mated with the barge Pathfinder that they cut down from the SS J. L. Mauthe (A former member of the AAA class of early 1950's lake freighters, like the Arthur M. Anderson that accompanied the Edmund Fitzgerald on her last trip). Pretty late date for new 20 cylinder 645's.
Happily, Interlake Steamship has gone the repowering route since then for their other steamships and they retain their graceful lines rather than being notched and pushed by a tug. No more steam starting this season for them since they're repowering their final steamer this winter, but they still look great.
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