Brookeville Equipment Will be manufacturing Passenger locomotives for SFRTAs Tri-Rail.
Ten of these so called BL36PH locomotives are going to be assembled at their plant in Pennsylvania. Tri-rail is the "guineapigs" and we'll have to see somethings before these can be labeled "Bad locomotives" or "bad-@$$ locomotives"
This is a new product line for Brookville so it should be interesting to see how well it plays out, especially against the competition from MPI.
This was announced back in Feb - GE Transportation is sueing, and a South Florida watchdog group has raised questions about an 'untried' builder producing 'old' technology(DC drive) engines. If fact, part of GE's suit centers around that the requirements were written to exclude AC traction locomotives and integrated traction/HEP power plants.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I don't know about Brookevile but Brookville Locomotive has been in business since the 20's I think. They also have a track record in commuter locomotives in that they have built smaller versions of the new design for MetroNorth for use mainly in Connecticutt.
GE, who is heavily invested in WABTEC - MPI , was probably the other bidder with a version of the GE powered AC locomotive that MBTA ordered. With the prospect of a lawsuit for every government owned locomotive order, its no wonder EMD has no enthusiasm for this business. And its a crappy order for 10 units and maybe 17 more if they aren't bankrupt by then.
jrbernier This was announced back in Feb - GE Transportation is sueing, and a South Florida watchdog group has raised questions about an 'untried' builder producing 'old' technology(DC drive) engines. If fact, part of GE's suit centers around that the requirements were written to exclude AC traction locomotives and integrated traction/HEP power plants. Jim
Questions I poised to Tri-Rail were: Is tri-rail aware of the many failures of DC locos this winter? Is tri-rail's DC traction motor failure rate higher than other locations not in a salt air enviroment? Will a new builder succeed?; look at Baldwin, Alcoa, and others. More important what is Brookville's loco record of reliability vs other builders. Did tri-rail directly compare AC to DC?
Personaly I think Brookville has a lot to learn.
the MNCR /CDOT BL20gh is a ok start but it leaves a lot to be desired, its far from what big boys have to offer.
poor planning and a lot of breakdowns.
MNCR has 12 of these BL20gh's but on average only 6 or less are available.
biggest problem lack of parts or lack of part availability.
thanks for all the input. NOW MY QUESTION is which is better, Brookeville locomotives (BL20, BL36) or MK locomotives (MP36)??? if both are bad, which is beter because they seem to be the ONLY TWO PASSENGER LOCOMOTIVE MANUFACTURERS today.
Mr. Railman thanks for all the input. NOW MY QUESTION is which is better, Brookeville locomotives (BL20, BL36) or MK locomotives (MP36)??? if both are bad, which is beter because they seem to be the ONLY TWO PASSENGER LOCOMOTIVE MANUFACTURERS today.
In addition to the two American manufacturers you mentioned there are European/Canadian firms with US subsidiaries (Alstom and Bombardier)..
Progress Rail (EMD's new owner who themselves are owned by Cat) seem to be intent on getting into the market as well although they may adapt a European design...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
So can someone with knowledge provide us with a complete list of Brookeville operators there equipment and the dispatch reliability?
CDOT owns 6 units in MNCR pool service
MNCR owns 6 units , and operates the 6 CDOT units.
Staten Island Rail road owns 3 units
Total of 15 units with the SIR units being work train units, not in passemger service.
Brookville is best known for its mining equipment and, as an adjunct, has been building industrial switchers for a number of years. I believe that Metro North has a pair that serve as shop switchers and M/W power.
Correct MNCR has two BL14cg switchers
and
and two BL070 switchers
http://64.246.11.82/images/1/13-switcher_404.jpg.16109.jpg
Will someone explain what is the difference, other than cab shape, between the passenger and freight locomotives. I have seen pictures of freight locos pulling passenger trains. Why not use the more available and well-proven product?
Passenger locomotives are built for speed, they have high horsepower, are relatively light, and are designed to minimize the forces they apply to the track. Freight locomotives also have high horsepower but they have lower gearing to maximize wheel torque. Because raw pulling power is more important than speed they are very heavy to help keep the wheels from spinning at low speeds. Freight locomotives now all have six axles to spread the weight and motor power, also the trucks are designed to keep the wheels firmly planted on the rail. At top speeds freight locomotives will cause faster rail wear and require more frequent attention to keep the rails in gauge and securely anchored to the ties.
RKS Will someone explain what is the difference, other than cab shape, between the passenger and freight locomotives. I have seen pictures of freight locos pulling passenger trains. Why not use the more available and well-proven product?
Not much, actually.
A big requirement for a passenger locomotive is HEP (head-end electric power in railroad-speak, hotel electric power in the parlance of passenger, mainly cruise, ships). Just about every passenger train in service these days needs electricity to run the lights, A/C, heating, and various accessories. In cold climates, a lot of this electricity is needed for heat. If you use a freight locomotive, you need some kind of power car. Exceptions are some private cars that have small Diesel gensets to run their heat and A/C -- kinda like a mechanical reefer railroad car or truck trailer.
A less of a requirement is gearing for faster speed. That may not even be an issue with commuter trains that are mainly about pulling power for acceleration from the many stops and may not reach such high speeds.
Still farther down the list, it seems, is streamlining, light weight, and my new bugbear/dead horse concern -- the nose-suspended traction motor and rail/roadbed pounding at speed.
Again, for a commuter train that averages only 30-40 MPH on account of the stops, streamlining may be of marginal benefit. The weight of a commuter locomotive, they tell me, is a concern to the extent that Chicago's Metra has line with some bridges not rated for the newer (an heavier) locomotives. For an express train, especially for service at speeds more than 79 MPH that are contemplated, streamlining makes a big difference, but it has to be the whole train -- if the locomotive is streamlined but there is a big height mismatch with some Amfleet cars with unstreamlined underbodies, what you do to the locomotive may be of marginal improvement.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
blue streak 1 jrbernier: This was announced back in Feb - GE Transportation is sueing, and a South Florida watchdog group has raised questions about an 'untried' builder producing 'old' technology(DC drive) engines. If fact, part of GE's suit centers around that the requirements were written to exclude AC traction locomotives and integrated traction/HEP power plants. Jim Questions I poised to Tri-Rail were: Is tri-rail aware of the many failures of DC locos this winter? Is tri-rail's DC traction motor failure rate higher than other locations not in a salt air enviroment? Will a new builder succeed?; look at Baldwin, Alcoa, and others. More important what is Brookville's loco record of reliability vs other builders. Did tri-rail directly compare AC to DC?
jrbernier: This was announced back in Feb - GE Transportation is sueing, and a South Florida watchdog group has raised questions about an 'untried' builder producing 'old' technology(DC drive) engines. If fact, part of GE's suit centers around that the requirements were written to exclude AC traction locomotives and integrated traction/HEP power plants. Jim
The winter time failures of DC motor locomotives is directly related to their tendency to suck snow into the traction motor housings which causes the motor to short out. AC motors do not suffer from this to a major degree because of the lack of commuter brushes( how the electricity gets to the windings in a DC Motor) (AC motors use induction, a magnetic field effect, to get electricity to the motor) .
If you get that much snow in Florida you would have other problems. Like the lack of snow plows to clear the parking lots and platforms for passengers. Diesel fuel gelling up(not as much of a problem as it once was). The ability of train crews to get to work (because of 1 above).
That I've heard of Florida East Coast did not have problems with corrosion on their freight locomotives. And neither did SP on the coast line.
I could continue here but the battery in my laptop is about to die.
Rgds IGN
I say MPI because they use technology that is familiar to railroads. But, for someone like Tri-Rail who is probably trying to purge their roster of the older units, they are good contestants for Brookeville to test reliability.
Blue Alert! We're at Blue Alert! Aw crap, it's a nondescript GEVO... Cancel Blue Alert!
WOW, this is from Brookville? They've stepped up there game. Guess I need to pay more attention, when I think Brookville, I think Critters:
Have fun with your trains
Brookville has historically been associated with mining equipment and small industrial locomotives but they recently built road locomotives (both passenger and m/w) for Metro-North, CDOT and SIRT.
u do know that FEC uses and histrically used EMD products exclusively. Tri is on the right track.
vsmithWOW, this is from Brookville? They've stepped up there game. Guess I need to pay more attention, when I think Brookville, I think Critters:
Like when I think 'Bombardier', I think snowmobiles? Anyone else on here old enough to remember?
Overmod vsmithWOW, this is from Brookville? They've stepped up there game. Guess I need to pay more attention, when I think Brookville, I think Critters: Like when I think 'Bombardier', I think snowmobiles? Anyone else on here old enough to remember?
What do you mean old?. Bombardier Recreational Products is still making snowmobiles, jet skis and a variety of other recreational products - the rail division was spun off a number of years ago.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Overmod vsmithWOW, this is from Brookville? They've stepped up there game. Guess I need to pay more attention, when I think Brookville, I think Critters: Like when I think 'Bombardier', I think snowmobiles? Anyone else on here old enough to remember? What do you mean old?. Bombardier Recreational Products is still making snowmobiles, jet skis and a variety of other recreational products - the rail division was spun off a number of years ago.
I was unclear. I meant "only snowmobiles" -- not anything as sophisticated as aircraft or high-speed trains.
I spoze it's a bit like "Brazil a major aircraft-manufacturing nation" or Finland becoming a major player in the field of consumer electronics" -- unlikely unless you know the story behind it all.
Overmod BaltACD Overmod vsmithWOW, this is from Brookville? They've stepped up there game. Guess I need to pay more attention, when I think Brookville, I think Critters: Like when I think 'Bombardier', I think snowmobiles? Anyone else on here old enough to remember? What do you mean old?. Bombardier Recreational Products is still making snowmobiles, jet skis and a variety of other recreational products - the rail division was spun off a number of years ago. I was unclear. I meant "only snowmobiles" -- not anything as sophisticated as aircraft or high-speed trains. I spoze it's a bit like "Brazil a major aircraft-manufacturing nation" or Finland becoming a major player in the field of consumer electronics" -- unlikely unless you know the story behind it all.
Well Embrarer has been building commercial aircraft in Brazil for a number of years - I have even flown on a couple in commuter airline service. Don't really know about Finland and electronics.
BaltACDDon't really know about Finland and electronics.
Ah, but you probably do: Nokia.
Overmod BaltACDDon't really know about Finland and electronics. Ah, but you probably do: Nokia.
Just as locomotive builders come and go, with mobile devices it appears that Android and IPhone have "cornered the market, and I hear that Finland may revert to a Dark Age of no longer building cell phones
Paul MilenkovicJust as locomotive builders come and go, with mobile devices it appears that Android and IPhone have "cornered the market, and I hear that Finland may revert to a Dark Age of no longer building cell phones
That may partially explain why AT&T is so avidly promoting the 820 and 920 smartphones. Which are actually rather good. Finns still got game. I don't think Windows 8 RT, misguided as that business decision may have been, is going to kill them just yet.
Not big into cell phones - always figured Nokia was Japanese.
BaltACD Overmod BaltACDDon't really know about Finland and electronics. Ah, but you probably do: Nokia. Not big into cell phones - always figured Nokia was Japanese.
Actually, people in Finland speak a language unlike any other in Europe and somewhat like Japanese.
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